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Old 11-30-2023, 09:50 PM   #1
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Cybertruck finally starting deliveries

Ok gang, here's some official info, FWIW, on some of the specs on the long-delayed Tesla Cybertruck from today's delivery "event."

A couple of things:

First, let's agree to do our best to keep this thread on topic; we all know some hate BEVs in general and BEV tow vehicles in particular, especially Teslas. We also know some will try to steer this thread into irrelevant tangents on politics, climate change, electrical grid capacities, et. al. ad. infinitum. Let's keep our focus on this vehicle and its capabilities, design philosophy, actual field performance, and so on.

There's a lot to digest in this video clip summary, but a few standouts: It's going to be a while before production and delivery of this vehicle ramp up. I have heard of wait lists stretching into five years. So if you're in the market for one, be prepared to wait -- and by then, the specs will likely improve. Tesla is offering an optional range-extending battery pack specifically for those who are going to be towing all the time - rather than build that capacity into the truck itself -- likely due to production streamlining.


I know the look of the vehicle is polarizing. It's growing on me, I kinda think it looks cool. You may note that in some respects a diesel TV will go farther, fill up faster, etc. However it won't beat the Cybertruck in race or in torque or in creature comforts, etc. Just like an Airstream isn't a four-season camper, is limited in its storage space, is way more expensive than SOBs, the Cybertruck has it's limitations and it's appeal, in many ways in the same ways Airstream trailers have their limitations and appeal.
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Old 11-30-2023, 11:04 PM   #2
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Meh. Starting at $80k until well into 2025 sometime, when the "$39k" base model will come out actually costing $61k (or more by then, perhaps.) And still uglier than homemade sin.

I don't think BEVs are the devil, though I think we're a ways away from them being competitive tow vehicles for people who range far from home. I do think Teslas are overhyped and they underperform the promises that Elmo makes. It'll be interesting to see what quirks the initial Cybertrucks in consumer hands exhibit, but I don't see a big conversion rate on reservations to orders at $80k and current interest rates.

Until the "range extending battery pack" is on the order sheet and being delivered to customers it's vaporware like the battery-swapping systems Tesla hyped early on. They don't even seem to have any 800V superchargers yet, the V4 superchargers that have been installed are supported by 400V infrastructure. And still no pull-through superchargers I've heard anything about.

Don't misunderstand... I'm sure they'll sell a lot of these ugly spuds (at least at first) but to describe the design as "polarizing" is REALLY generous. It's just not anywhere near towing an Airstream 1800 miles/week.
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Old 11-30-2023, 11:20 PM   #3
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Thanks for posting. I saw a few interesting features.

The vehicle to load feature, branded Powershare, allows backup to home, powering a trailer, or charging another EV, all using the 240v 40A plug in the bed. Glad to see this.

The 800v or 1000v architecture makes sense, but the charging infrastructure will have to catch up. We are seeing V4 superchargers being installed now, and they should be able to support it, when they have higher voltage utility connections. The ones near us have drive through bays as well. I do like the 48v battery for accessories instead of 12v.

The steer by wire isn't just for variable ratio steering, but also for more control over the four wheel steering

The range extender battery results in 750 km of range for the dual motor, the top range spec. That model still has a 4.3 second 0-100 kph rating. That dual motor version has 600 hp, and 7,435 pound-feet of torque.


The Cyberbeast Tri motor seems like overkill. But for those who like overkill, it does have 845 hp, and 10,296 lb-ft of torque. Same 11,000 lb tow rating, but apparently you can race Porsches while towing with it.

I think the dual motor will be the most popular. I would want the awd. When it is available, the single motor rwd will be more for fleets IMO.

I still don't really like the looks, but it looks better to me now than it did in early shots. I think it will grow on people. I don't need a pickup, but with the power tonneau cover, front trunk, and under bed storage, it seems like a more practical pickup.

The clip above shows a bit of the two towing videos they showed today, but here they are in full mode.




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Old 12-01-2023, 12:36 AM   #4
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I'll apologize up front to anyone who has ordered one, but regardless of whatever other positives the Cybertruck may bring to the table...I'm sorry...I think it's just plain ugly. As to whether the look will grow on people, I just don't see it. In fact, I believe it will age very poorly.

I think Tesla would have been far better served to design a modern but more traditional looking vehicle. The Rivian, for example, is much more attractive than the Cybertruck. Just my subjective opinion.
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:24 AM   #5
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I am curious about the range extending battery pack allegedly boosting range to 470 miles (unloaded). It's rumored to be a $16000 option, but no confirmation on price yet.

I get why Tesla is going with this architecture. For most, hauling around all that extra range capacity is way overkill. It takes gas to haul gas.

And streamlineing production with all the CTs having the same base battery allows them to churn these out at the remarkable, though yet to reach pace of up to 2 vehicles per minute.

So it makes perfect sense for them to tackle the towing range issue with an extra battery pack in the bed. It takes up about 30% of the space, but have not read about its weight and how much it decreases load capacity.

Wondering if this is something that can easily be loaded and unloaded, rented or purchase-only. Wondering if it could be kept at home and used as emergency power back-up or as component of their home solar battery system -- if so, that versatility would be a selling point.
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Old 12-01-2023, 05:32 AM   #6
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I love the polarizing nature of the CT. Just have to laugh at how it tweaks so many (as already evident), who have to cast shade to make them feel better in justifying their opinions. Change is hard.

Functionally and performance wise, commenting from the perspective of a vehicle and payload systems engineer rooted use case analysis and design, I think the CT is a win. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

The curb weight (I think competitive for such a performant vehicle) and wheelbase will lend itself to tow confidently. 4 wheel steering with rear wheel steer will enable a level of towing agility we've not seen in anything. Backing up will be game changing.

Covered storage galore between the frunk, under-bed storage, power tonneau cover, is a game changer. Yes the range extender takes room, but storage will still be great with the tapered cover creating split level storage on top of the extender.

Payload is very competitive and overlaps the upper range of half tons into 3/4 ton trucks. I expect the CT will have comparable or better ride quality than most trucks today, but way better ride quality when towing on account of the sophisticated independent 4 wheel air suspension.

The power plug in bed means the Airstream will have a personal traveling power pedestal. I'm glad I never went overboard in upgrading onboard power.

Spec'd range with fitted optional range extender is finally at a threshold worth towing with. Supported by the only real EV charging network deployed in any significant quantity. As is in CA where I've owned various EVs for over 10 yrs, EV trips are a non-event as chargers are everywhere. There's still infrastructure work to do, but it'll only get better.

The great thing about the range extender architecture is that there is a built in interface to potentially allow for all sorts of variations in extenders. Something that allows the CT to get upgraded further over-time as new battery and 3rd party tech allows. Not unlike diesel trucks of yore with an aux bed tank. Some youtube influencer inevitably will integrate an ICE generator as an extender.

My Porsche sitting in the garage is probably not feeling as secure these days, as who knows, it might just need to go away to make room. My current Lexus Land Cruiser TV and offroading beast on 35" AT tires and 6" total lift, auxillary gas tank, lockers blah blah might also get superseded. Both by one vehicle, something I never thought possible.

Price is higher than the expectations set, but IMO, given the capability, bandwidth, and performance, there's still lots of value, even in the high end Cyberbeast trim.
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Old 12-01-2023, 06:50 AM   #7
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Looks like a trophy truck crashed into an alcoa plant.

Apologies in advance.

Can you charge in Utah?
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Old 12-01-2023, 06:59 AM   #8
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I like the Tesla car and we have one. It works great. This truck won’t do the job I need done and it costs too much. I’m sure they will sell a bunch of them.
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Old 12-01-2023, 10:34 AM   #9
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I think you will either like it or hate it due to the look. It's awfully expensive, so it will be for a small percentage of people. My guess is the look is due to trying to make it aerodynamic to increase range. Although I am not sure why the bullet proof body. Why? Does the consumer plan to drive this to the inner city of Chicago? It's cool, but is it really necessary? And how much does that inflate the cost?

The horsepower, torque, and payload look pretty impressive. It would be interesting to see how far this truck can go pulling say a 25' or 28' Airstream. So TFL needs to get a hold of one and put it through the paces. Until those demonstrations are available I am suspicious. And then there is the availability issue. And on top of that who the heck knows where to get something like this fixed if you buy one? Just read Consumer Reports that EVs in general have 80% more problems. I know it is new tech...but the last thing one needs is a problem where there is no where to repair.

So my guess this will be largely for rich city dwellers, that like cool technology, and that the appeal will not be wide ranging due to appearance.
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Old 12-01-2023, 10:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Slimpockets View Post
I like the Tesla car and we have one. It works great. This truck won’t do the job I need done and it costs too much. I’m sure they will sell a bunch of them.
I am in the same position. Our car works great, and the Cybertruck is a little large for us, too wide, so we are not on the wait list.

I am not worried about the cost, as I would shop it against the Model S. It is certainly up from the predictions from 2019, but it seems cost competitive with other BEV trucks. And Tesla has built volume production capacity, which has brought their prices down. Ford and GM don’t have production capacity, and are losing money on every sale.

To me the most important thing about the Cybertruck is that it shifts the Overton window, to borrow a phrase. It redefines what can be done. Other manufacturers ignore that at their peril.

I expect to benefit from the Cybertruck without owning one. More Superchargers. More drive through Supercharger bays. Spill over technical advances showing up in other Tesla vehicles, often through OTA updates.
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Old 12-01-2023, 10:51 AM   #11
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I think you will either like it or hate it due to the look. It's awfully expensive, so it will be for a small percentage of people. My guess is the look is due to trying to make it aerodynamic to increase range. Although I am not sure why the bullet proof body. Why? Does the consumer plan to drive this to the inner city of Chicago? It's cool, but is it really necessary? And how much does that inflate the cost?

The horsepower, torque, and payload look pretty impressive. It would be interesting to see how far this truck can go pulling say a 25' or 28' Airstream. So TFL needs to get a hold of one and put it through the paces. Until those demonstrations are available I am suspicious. And then there is the availability issue. And on top of that who the heck knows where to get something like this fixed if you buy one? Just read Consumer Reports that EVs in general have 80% more problems. I know it is new tech...but the last thing one needs is a problem where there is no where to repair.

So my guess this will be largely for rich city dwellers, that like cool technology, and that the appeal will not be wide ranging due to appearance.
The stainless steel structure is for functionality, not armour. There are wraps for those who don’t like the stainless steel look

I would plan to get it fixed the same way any other Tesla is fixed. Our experience has been that service is far easier than with a traditional dealer service model. For one repair we went to the Tesla service centre. They didn’t have loaners, they provided free Uber rides home and back. The other repair was at home. Mobile service arrived in a Model S. They brought the part with them, as the technician had diagnosed the failure remotely without us knowing. One failure was a light bulb, the other impacted the display. Neither impacted driving the vehicle.
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Old 12-01-2023, 11:16 AM   #12
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I agree with Daquenzer - TFL does a great review of TVís on I-70 West of Eisenhower Tunnel. Cybertruck would be a great addition to their inventory of Golden Hitch award competition.
Please note TFL YouTubers tested the FORD electric truck on a drive from Colorado to N. Alaska without towing a trailer. There are several videos you can watch and I found it fascinating. I seem to remember the second/chase vehicle was a FORD hybrid. These videos provide great info on where we stand today in supporting electric TVís in remote areas.
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Old 12-01-2023, 11:53 AM   #13
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I love the polarizing nature of the CT. Just have to laugh at how it tweaks so many (as already evident), who have to cast shade to make them feel better in justifying their opinions. Change is hard.
For me, the problem isn't the concept, it's the execution.

If by justifying opinions you mean finding excuses to denigrate EV's for towing or other purposes that's not at all where I'm coming from. Although I believe there are concerns still to be resolved to make EV's a mainstream choice for towing I have no problem believing they will someday be resolved. And to be clear, I don't have an issue with the capabilities of the CT since there's not enough (any) independent, unbiased information available to pass judgement on them. My complaint is with the way the thing looks and fair or not that's the first and perhaps most obvious impression one gets from any vehicle. There's a reason the Edsel, despite the fact that it featured some forward-thinking engineering, didn't make the cut with the car buying public.

Aside from the problems I've read about with gaps from ill-fitting stainless-steel panels (Delorean already tried them with poor results) and the overall fit and finish problems that Teslas have in general, it seems they tried to make a "statement" with the CT. Unfortunately, they came up with a design that is, to be charitable, polarizing, and to be less polite, plain ugly. I think Tesla's competitors in the EV truck field have done a much better job with their more traditional designs that don't evoke the vibe of someone screaming "hey look at me, I'm so different."

Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe CT's will become trend setting, styling classics and Tesla will sell a bunch of them. Just not to me.
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Old 12-01-2023, 11:54 AM   #14
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I live in far NE WA state (actually closer to Idaho than Spokane) and there is exactly ONE Tesla service center in all of Eastern Washington - Liberty Lake, which is @ 90 miles away from me. There's also one - ONE! service center in ALL of Idaho - Boise.

https://chargemap.com/map

If someone lives in the Seattle area or other major cities, service might not be too bad, but for anyone else, it would be a joke. I also don't get the fascination with zero to 60 times (unless maybe you're a teenage kid trying to impress a girl/woman). How many guys take their TV to the drag strip? Beyond that, Tesla's are known for their shoddy workmanship. In all probability a major part of the reason it's taken so long for them to actually deliver them may have to deal with the fact they had to spend more time getting these "first editions" in shape for delivery (Musk himself commented that this design creates the potential for significant issues regarding finish quality). Overall, the Hummer EV looks like a much better option to me.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:15 PM   #15
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Here we go again with the naysayers. The success of the CT won't be defined by the critics.

There is easily enough interest to just about guarantee its success. You can cast these individuals however you like to make yourself feel better, but they are high net worth individuals with lots of choice. Just as with the original Model S how many years ago now...manufacturers and naysayers chalked it up to an uppity new brand and dismissed their achievements as irrelevant and look where we are now.

That will replay itself again.

Fortunately, we all have choice and there is plenty of traditional options.

At least for myself as a discerning enthusiasts that expects more from my vehicles, I'm satisfied with what's been presented with the CT and there will be one in my garage. The Tesla's already in my garage have proven to be far better than most cars out there despite naysayer hang-ups.

Interestingly, my current ICE vehicles had time adjusted purchase prices greater than the CT. I could care less about statement vehicles. I want functionality and performance. This CT will do more. Much more to where it has the potential to displace both my sports car and TV.

I think part of the disappointment (to the fault of Tesla) is that the everyday Joe expected mainstream pricing for the CT, and it is not that currently. It's an expensive high end truck. That is still price competitive in the landscape. Remains to be seen if Tesla can lower prices enough once volume production commences or they'll need to create a lower end truck, not unlike Model S is to Model 3.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:21 PM   #16
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The stainless steel structure is for functionality, not armour. There are wraps for those who don’t like the stainless steel look

I would plan to get it fixed the same way any other Tesla is fixed. Our experience has been that service is far easier than with a traditional dealer service model. For one repair we went to the Tesla service centre. They didn’t have loaners, they provided free Uber rides home and back. The other repair was at home. Mobile service arrived in a Model S. They brought the part with them, as the technician had diagnosed the failure remotely without us knowing. One failure was a light bulb, the other impacted the display. Neither impacted driving the vehicle.
What is the functionality behind the stainless steel?

And as to repair, you live in Vancouver. You have a Tesla dealer in Vancouver, and 5 in British Columbia. That is a different situation than in the Midwest of the U.S. This is why I stated this will be a truck for big city urban dwellers that has a very limited appeal due to design and look.

For example in Wisconsin there are only 2 Tesla dealers. One in Milwaukee, and one in Madison. There are 96 Dodge Ram Dealers.

As with anything time will tell, but just on the basis of the comments on this forum it is clearly a love hate kind of thing. And personally I think the look stinks. They need to smooth out the rough edges. One can make it sleek without making it look funky.

And I can't even imagine the cost of body work on something like this. Insurance rates will be sky high.

And as with anything, the early adopters will snatch them up and sales will be swift for a while. But then demand will cool off just as it has for EVs in the U.S. as supplies build up on lots and people are resistant due to a host of reasons which primarily are around cost, range, and charging availability.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:47 PM   #17
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Could it be a fun toy, sure? Something to try and impress a bunch of people you donít know, Ok.

As someone that really uses a truck and have for many years, I would not go out and buy one to use as a truck or tow vehicle. The bed is still not long enough for construction folks (8í needed). I can only imagine running a crew of steelworkers, landscapers, framers, etc.. in a CT and what they could destroy in a matter of weeks. Plus, do I really need a crew of guys racing a Porsche at a stoplight after they have stopped at the local 7-11 for ďBeer-ThirtyĒ on the ride home.

Is it a truck, yeah, itís got a 6í bed. Is it a real truck, ďNoĒ more of a large open rear SUV. Take a Ford Excusion, cut the roof off the back and youíve got the same thing. But for the money, I could find a better toy to play with on the weekends.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:48 PM   #18
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What is the functionality behind the stainless steel?

And I can't even imagine the cost of body work on something like this. Insurance rates will be sky high.
Did you see the videos of someone taking a sledgehammer to the body of the truck, or the compound bow and arrow? Or the Tommy gun? That should settle the question of the stainless steel and bodywork. Besides, for off-road enthusiasts, this truck looks like a wet dream, with unparalleled ground clearance, low center of gravity, making it difficult to roll over, remarkable, suspension, etc. Like a jeep any mud, dirt, dents and debris will be proudly displayed like a badge of honor. Tesla is even selling decals to apply to the CT windows that mimic the cracked impact pattern from four years ago.

But I hear you about the fit and finish challenges, plaguing Tesla, especially with this vehicle, which, because of its flat and angular design, will make glaringly obvious any imperfections in finish, or misalignment of body panels.

I don’t know if the insurance industry has enough data to accurately price insurance premiums, but they will no doubt high simply because the price of the cyber truck is quite high. By the way, what is the insurance rate on an airstream trailer compared to SOB?

Maybe the boys at Jackson Center should contact Elon about sourcing some of their custom stainless steel to use on the front of airstreams!
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:02 PM   #19
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Here we go again with the naysayers. The success of the CT won't be defined by the critics.

There is easily enough interest to just about guarantee its success. You can cast these individuals however you like to make yourself feel better, but they are high net worth individuals with lots of choice. Just as with the original Model S how many years ago now...manufacturers and naysayers chalked it up to an uppity new brand and dismissed their achievements as irrelevant and look where we are now.

That will replay itself again.

Fortunately, we all have choice and there is plenty of traditional options.

At least for myself as a discerning enthusiasts that expects more from my vehicles, I'm satisfied with what's been presented with the CT and there will be one in my garage. The Tesla's already in my garage have proven to be far better than most cars out there despite naysayer hang-ups.

Interestingly, my current ICE vehicles had time adjusted purchase prices greater than the CT. I could care less about statement vehicles. I want functionality and performance. This CT will do more. Much more to where it has the potential to displace both my sports car and TV.

I think part of the disappointment (to the fault of Tesla) is that the everyday Joe expected mainstream pricing for the CT, and it is not that currently. It's an expensive high end truck. That is still price competitive in the landscape. Remains to be seen if Tesla can lower prices enough once volume production commences or they'll need to create a lower end truck, not unlike Model S is to Model 3.
While I appreciate your POV, pteck, respectfully I'm not a "naysayer" with regard to any particular concept regarding EV's, towing with EV's or anything related.

The OP's initial comments included "design philosophy" as one of the acceptable points of discussion and so I'm offering my opinions specifically about the CT's design. You think it will succeed because of (or perhaps despite) its styling but I have my doubts. We'll see how it plays out.

Whatever else it may or may not offer, the CT widely misses the mark styling-wise, IMO. You apparently disagree. I can live with that. Just consider that it might be somewhat unreasonable to label anyone a naysayer just because they don't share your esthetic. Cheers.
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:04 PM   #20
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I donít know if the insurance industry has enough data to accurately price insurance premiums, but they will no doubt high simply because the price of the cyber truck is quite high. By the way, what is the insurance rate on an airstream trailer compared to SOB?

Maybe the boys at Jackson Center should contact Elon about sourcing some of their custom stainless steel to use on the front of airstreams!
I like your point.

Surely stainless has more resilience than the aluminum we all accept on our Airstreams on account of? Including the limited service options and high price of repair.
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