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07-30-2015, 09:40 AM
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#61
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Full Time Adventurer
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic
, USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loden
I went back to find the source where I read that, and still trying to find the loaded rear basket article, but I believe it was in an insurance-related journal. I will find it eventually, but here is the source for the pendulum comments.
http://www.sv-jme.eu/data/upload/201...stersic_02.pdf
There has actually been a lot of academic work done on this and there is more than one paper out there commenting on the high percentage of "phantom vehicle" single car accidents with trailers where the trailer had a cargo basket mounted with excess load in the basket.
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Mad props! You're a first to back it up. I would have never guessed about the basket.
__________________
Family of 5 exploring the USA with a Ram Power Wagon & Airstream in tow.
OUR BLOG | INSTAGRAM
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07-30-2015, 09:42 AM
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#62
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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MERCY - play the clip in full screen mode, and give the driver credit for one thing. Keeping the tow vehicle upright was luck, but he actually backed the car off the interstate and got out of the way of the semi. Watch the tires.
There is no CDL or specific training required to qualify to drive with an RV. Only one in ten Airstreamers belong to this forum - and perhaps half of them are also WBCCI. Anyone can buy an RV, believe the salesman, get a mediocre hitch and setup on an inappropriate tow vehicle and go his merry way - a TYRO and a virgin more than an idiot.
MALE drivers - How many will even ask for directions, let alone towing training? OK, some do, but most... not. I've occasionally seen someone come into a campground exhausted with a trailer that's severely nose high or low, and asked if they'd had a rough trip. One Argosy owner turned out to have grown up about 3 miles from my home town, had just gotten the trailer, hitched it up and driven 550 miles in one day, with the tongue almost ON the ground. (Hitch ball with a six inch drop, van that needed one with about a 4 inch RISE.) In my regular campground there are all kinds of veterans who help strangers. I got backing lessons years ago - and they helped this newbie get a safer well balanced ball and chain setup.
It's really just as easy to help... and I remain very aware of how much help I got here and in the real world when I first started.
Sincerely, Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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07-30-2015, 10:45 AM
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#63
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Paula - THIS male driver (and his female DW) spent a weekend (our first with the trailer) at a local CDW school for a 2-day safe RV driving course.
Highly recommended no matter one's gender.
I usually chime in on the forums when a first time trailer owner asks what he or she should get for the trailer.
6 figures all in on the new truck and trailer - $500 and 2 days of our time seemed a very cheap investment for this purpose....
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07-30-2015, 11:25 AM
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#64
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Rivet Master
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac
Paula - THIS male driver (and his female DW) spent a weekend (our first with the trailer) at a local CDW school for a 2-day safe RV driving course.
Highly recommended no matter one's gender.
I usually chime in on the forums when a first time trailer owner asks what he or she should get for the trailer.
6 figures all in on the new truck and trailer - $500 and 2 days of our time seemed a very cheap investment for this purpose....
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Steve I was actually thinking of YOU when I said "SOME DO" - and even I never knew that truck driving schools often offered that kind of course until you posted it. Good Karma to You and keep on recommending that kind of course. I made contact with two local truck driving schools and now regularly recommend them when the topic comes up at "girls around the campfire" meetings. MOST women, not ALL have real fear of learning to tow, especially long term "passenger seat" occupants. And the older they get the more likely something will happen where they'll NEED to take over with zero notice. It's nice to see them go from fearful to - maybe - to Oh, I CAN do this!
Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
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07-30-2015, 11:36 AM
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#65
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldAdventure
Mad props! You're a first to back it up. I would have never guessed about the basket.
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Would have seemed the most obvious contributor after the cretin passed the truck too closely and hit that bow wave. I also wouldn't be surprised were the holding tanks full. And I'd not want to examine the TT brake condition.
Polar moment of inertia is a bitch.
All trailers will sway. Any design. It's only a matter of how fast one must travel. Add in complicating factors (wind load side pressure increase down the length of a trailer, for instance) and it happens sooner than speed alone.
Handling cross winds is what matters most given reasonable precautions with both vehicles and their lash up. The source of the winds is irrelevant.
See Andrew_T s review of the Tuson AntiSway control.
Otherwise one hits the trailer brake and accelerator at the same time. Have to keep linkage taut , first, and control the rate of descent, second. Most problems of this sort are over before one gets down to 35-mph (given it is not some serious failure).
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07-30-2015, 11:37 AM
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#66
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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A Hensley or ProPride hitch won't keep someone from crashing their rig, but it won't be from sway. Small investment to ensure this cannot happen.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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07-30-2015, 12:09 PM
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#67
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
........But, did anyone else notice the luggage rack on the back of the trailer, and what looked like water bottles flopping from side to side as the trailer swayed?............QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loden
............The single biggest issue can be seen as the trailer clears the left of the 18 wheeler. There is a cargo basket on the rear of the trailer and it is LOADED.................
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I agree with these statements!
I think the trailer tongue was too light, which contributed to the sway event. The leverage effect of loaded cargo carrier extended beyond the rear bumper removed tongue load. Wind and bow wave also contributed.
Slower speed and better balance probably would have made a difference. Definitely preventable!
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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07-30-2015, 12:25 PM
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#68
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2 Rivet Member
2000 30' Excella
Monticello
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 88
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I'm confused what should you do. I do 55 most time 60 max on straight and level low traffic areas and when I start to sway I speed up a little then slow down my speed, is this the right thing to do?
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07-30-2015, 12:34 PM
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#69
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07007
I'm confused what should you do. I do 55 most time 60 max on straight and level low traffic area, when I start to sway I speed up a little then slow down my speed, is this the right thing to do?
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First use the manual brake controller levers to apply the trailer brakes. The trailer brakes pulling on the tow vehicle will tend to stop the sway. Some people say speed up, but my advice is try to maintain speed without applying the tow vehicle brakes.
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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07-30-2015, 12:44 PM
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#70
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Here's what's confusing to me. Twenty years ago Jim Hensley began marketing a hitch that prevented sway from ever happening. Today this hitch design is sold by Hensley and ProPride. More expensive than conventional hitches but the price difference is a small part of the total Airstream/tow vehicle cost.
Yet we are still talking about what to do when when your Airstream begins to sway. Not to mention folks buying bigger, more expensive trucks to try to prevent it, which clearly doesn't prevent it.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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07-30-2015, 01:33 PM
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#71
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A
, N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Here's what's confusing to me. Twenty years ago Jim Hensley began marketing a hitch that prevented sway from ever happening. Today this hitch design is sold by Hensley and ProPride. More expensive than conventional hitches but the price difference is a small part of the total Airstream/tow vehicle cost.
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Doug, besides the marketing material of the hitch manufacturer, do you have any proof of what you (they) are claiming? Do you know of any third party test that can verify this lofty claim independently?
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07-30-2015, 03:14 PM
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#72
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam
Doug, besides the marketing material of the hitch manufacturer, do you have any proof of what you (they) are claiming? Do you know of any third party test that can verify this lofty claim independently?
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Hook one up. 30-day guarantee. Send it back it doesn't do what is claimed.
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07-30-2015, 03:36 PM
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#73
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck
I don't think that information is available in the video. In order to get a Darwin award, you have to perform your low-IQ/Suicidal act BEFORE having had the opportunity to reproduce, and pass your genes to the next generation.
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I believe you have to remove yourself from the gene pool to get the award, either through death or sterilization. Doing something stupid doesn't qualify unless you meet one of those two criteria.
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07-30-2015, 03:48 PM
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#74
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07007
I'm confused �� what should you do. I do 55 most time 60 max on straight and level low traffic areas and when I start to sway I speed up a little then slow down my speed, is this the right thing to do?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn
First use the manual brake controller levers to apply the trailer brakes. The trailer brakes pulling on the tow vehicle will tend to stop the sway. Some people say speed up, but my advice is try to maintain speed without applying the tow vehicle brakes.
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^
X2
Then spend some time setting up your rig to obtain the absolute best sway control.
55-60mph in low traffic low wind conditions is not conducive to producing sway in a properly set-up TV Airstream combo.
Bob
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07-30-2015, 05:24 PM
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#75
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Hook one up. 30-day guarantee. Send it back it doesn't do what is claimed.
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We still have our ProPride, wouldn't send it back after three years and many cross-country trips throughout the country in all weather and traffic conditions. Even for a full refund.
Thousands of satisfied and safe Hensley and ProPride users have kept theirs as well. They eliminate sway, and prevent sway from developing into the dangerous condition we see here.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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07-30-2015, 05:36 PM
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#76
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam
Doug, besides the marketing material of the hitch manufacturer, do you have any proof of what you (they) are claiming? Do you know of any third party test that can verify this lofty claim independently?
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I will verify it. They work.
Of course this verification is only as good as my word....
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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07-30-2015, 05:43 PM
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#77
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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This same thing almost happened to me when I hit a rough spot on the interstate. The trailer started swaying and I hit the trailer brakes and it got under control. I had the sway bar loose as they say to do when the roads are wet. This was a big mistake and almost cost me. I expect the dude had no sway control at all. An Airstream would not have turned over so soon.
Perry
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07-30-2015, 05:47 PM
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#78
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Rivet Master
2007 27' Safari FB SE
NW Oregon in a nice spot
, Oregon
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 879
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Brothers (and sisters),.....it is not what you tow with or what hitch you have!! I have a F250 and have not been ashamed of towing a lousy 12 foot cargo trailer behind me at 35 mph while everyone else was blowing by me at 65....on icy and windy roads in January in Wyoming on I80. Yes I did see 15 RV delivery trucks with trailers behind them on their sides.
So - lets not get into ego's. Sanity and responsibility for one's vehicle prevails.
Just saying I really don't give a rat's behind what you tow with or what hitch you tow with. If you don't know how to use the tools it is a wasted effort and energy. "It is not what tools you have but what you do with those tools that matter".
So for me, sometimes slowing down to crazy low speeds on ice with a trailer on surge rather than electric brakes make sense. For some who didn't they ended up on their sides....I really don't care since they didnt' take anyone out with them.
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07-30-2015, 06:02 PM
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#79
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Rivet Master
2005 30' Classic
Burlington
, Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
We still have our ProPride, wouldn't send it back after three years and many cross-country trips throughout the country in all weather and traffic conditions. Even for a full refund.
Thousands of satisfied and safe Hensley and ProPride users have kept theirs as well. They eliminate sway, and prevent sway from developing into the dangerous condition we see here.
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Yep, took me a while to decide to spend the $$, but in hindsight, I don't regret it one bit.
Not a 100% guarantee of safety towing of course, but I realized the benefit the first time an 18 wheeler blew by me on the interstate and I felt absolutely nothing as he came by!
I didn't even realize he was there until he came up level with the cab of our truck and i saw him. Not the slightest impact on handling of our rig.
Now I just have to be wary that having the Hensley does not make me complacent, and that I keep adhering to principles of defensive driving!
Brian.
__________________
Brian & Connie Mitchell
2005 Classic 30'
Hensley Arrow / Centramatics
2008 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD,4x4,Crew Cab, Diesel, Leer cap.
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07-30-2015, 06:22 PM
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#80
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Crash while towing down the interstate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam
Doug, besides the marketing material of the hitch manufacturer, do you have any proof of what you (they) are claiming? Do you know of any third party test that can verify this lofty claim independently?
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Hi. I'm not Doug. I also readily admit I don't understand the engineering or math that supports the claim.
There is a lengthy discussion going back 10 years ago on RV.net (where Ron Gratz - well known in AirForums - contributed heavily to explaining the why...).
You can see that huge thread and the links to the Hensley patents that provide the technical explanation here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...g/1/page/3.cfm
You can also watch at least a couple YouTube videos that demonstrate it through Lego models. Here's one: http://youtu.be/5fdM_gn-CyM and there's a longer 5 minute version out there too.
As I understand it, the Hensley/PP hitches virtually project the pivot point forward, roughly to the rear axle of the tow vehicle essentially functioning something like a 5th wheel that sits right on the axle. That location, rather than pivoting on the ball, is what makes the TV/TT combo act as a single, not "jointed" unit.
That does NOT mean this is the only safe way to tow a trailer or that having such a hitch guarantees you won't have an accident.
It just means what it means.
EDIT: Whatever the gear, perhaps the most important element in safe driving is the driver. In the OP's video, that driver loaded incorrectly, drove too fast for conditions, didn't apply appropriate corrective measures, didn't (apparently) manually apply trailer brakes and possibly didn't have any anti-sway device on the rig. While I'm fairly confident that accident wouldn't have happened if he were using a properly setup HaHa/PP - that doesn't mean he wouldn't eventually find himself in a ditch - nor does it mean that he wouldn't have had much better results with any of the other hitches and better driving skills.
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