Contemplating a new Ford

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by thiel

Okay... so is there anyone out there that can explain the mysterious relationship between...

...Net Payload
...Accessory Reserve Capacity (ARC)
...and "Computer Selected Springs"

...on the F150 product line? Cuz the Ford dealer can't!


If they can build the truck I want, I think I'm gonna live in it and use the Airstream as a vacation home.

I would assume that net payload is the real payload after you have added all the bells and whistles.
Accessory reserve capacity sounds like the amount of payload you have left to add those things like running boards, tonneau cover, etc.
Computer selected springs is just another fancy way of saying that if this is your weight of vehicle then these are the springs that the "computer has selected for your truck.

[EarStreaming]

I'll chime in since we just recently bought our F150 XLT, Super Crew, Max Tow, Max Payload, Tow Mirrors and NO bells and whistle. That being said, the payload sticker is a whopping 2541lbs! Without the bells and whistle, we knew we had room for more payload so we added:

-4" wide step bars
-Spray in liner
-Decked system
-Yakima Bed Rock, cross bars, front loader and cargo box
-more to come

It's my DD and since I've had it for almost 2mos now, I get 20MPG and tomorrow will be our first maiden voyage pulling our 23D. It's a short trip ~21mi so we'll see what my MPG will be. We're very happy with it, lots of room to grow in this truck vs our last TV which was a VW Touareg and loved it but had it short comings due to limited payload.

[mixedpuppy]

My understanding of ARC is that is the maximum allowed weight of options. It's different than payload, but takes away from payload. I don't know how the number is decided on.



For example, with a GVWR of 7850# and a base curb weight of 5150#, you'd have 2700# payload. But of course you cannot bulk up the truck with 2700# of options, it would leave no payload for passengers, anything in the bed, etc. So the ARC is a limit on options.



I calculated weights before purchasing our truck. The ARC for it was 1254# with a max payload of 2650#. My calculations came in only 15# over what the sticker said. All the weights were taken from ford documents, including the ARC. You can see my spreadsheet here:


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...MldhH6IDOYhy_0

[Bigventure]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Couple questions I have and have not seen in this thread that I am curious on. What type of MPG are people getting? Understand size and weight of both TV (what you are using)and trailer (year and size of trailer you are towing) will play into this question. Is TV gas or diesel? Single or dually? 4 x4 or two wheel drive? How many doors, long bed or short bed. Also whether one typical is towing on the flat or up and down hills/mountains? The other is your transmissions. I will presume most newer TV's are set up w/a system/program for towing/not towing? Yes/no? I am curious as what other peoples TV,s have and what they return? Nothing more, just interested.

Safe and happy travels.

I tow with a 2016 f250 diesel 4x4 short bed. It’s trimmed is ultra lariat. One step down from platinum and quite a bit less money.

Towing a 2016 Classic I get 12/14 mpg. The issue was a 26 gallon tank on the short bed truck. So I installed a Titan 50 tank and a Transferflow 50 in the bed. I had the Transferflow installed before the Titan. I may now eliminate the bed tank.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

When you look at ARC think of "accessories" like a snow plow or a salt spreader .... Taking up the entire load limit of the truck with that stuff would leave you in a situation that overloaded it as soon as driver and passengers got in.

Bob

[sbowman]

I am not seeing any GM TV's. Does any one have a GM diesel that they use as a TV? Size, model, how many doors, long bed/short bed, 4 x 4. Just curious.

Safe and happy travels.

[55AS]

Just traded in my 2014 F150 XLT SuperCrew (3.5L EB, tow package, spray in bed liner, BakFlip tonneau cover, 5.5 ft bed).
New truck is a 2017 F150 Lariat SuperCrew (2.7L EB, tow package, spray in liner, LoMax tonneau cover, 6.5 ft bed).
Both are great trucks and fabulous tow vehicles. Note my vintage AS only weighs about 4500 lbs.
2014 vs 2017 Comparison:
2017 aluminum body with smaller EB packs a similar punch to the previous truck but gets substantially better fuel economy (21 mpg in combined driving so far compared with 18 on the old truck).
Have not towed with the new one yet but expect similar great towing performance. Got 12 mpg towing with the 2014.
Bigger bed is noticeable when parking and making U turns but less so than I would have thought. The extra bed space is nice.
LoMax cover is very nice; ultra low profile powder coated aluminum. Resolved my only 2 complaints about the BakFlip:
Removes completely in seconds when full bed access is required rather than flipping up and blocking rear window.
Allows tailgate to be opened and closed with cover in place. BakFlip required two hands to close tailgate since cover had to be raised.
Other nice features I have now:
Voice nav - love it!
Heated and AIR CONDITIONED seats - sounds silly but they are awesome
Full SYNC access to phone features
Power fold mirrors
Engine start/stop - seamless in use and saves fuel
Power tailgate - remote lockable
Remote start - Meh
Bigger remote - Why? Dislike
No running boards - Odd. Added aftermarket ones
Wish I had: larger fuel tank

[thiel]

Originally Posted by BambiTex

Just traded in my 2014 F150 XLT SuperCrew (3.5L EB, tow package, spray in bed liner, BakFlip tonneau cover, 5.5 ft bed).
New truck is a 2017 F150 Lariat SuperCrew (2.7L EB, tow package, spray in liner, LoMax tonneau cover, 6.5 ft bed).
Both are great trucks and fabulous tow vehicles. Note my vintage AS only weighs about 4500 lbs.
2014 vs 2017 Comparison:
2017 aluminum body with smaller EB packs a similar punch to the previous truck but gets substantially better fuel economy (21 mpg in combined driving so far compared with 18 on the old truck).
Have not towed with the new one yet but expect similar great towing performance. Got 12 mpg towing with the 2014.
Bigger bed is noticeable when parking and making U turns but less so than I would have thought. The extra bed space is nice.
LoMax cover is very nice; ultra low profile powder coated aluminum. Resolved my only 2 complaints about the BakFlip:
Removes completely in seconds when full bed access is required rather than flipping up and blocking rear window.
Allows tailgate to be opened and closed with cover in place. BakFlip required two hands to close tailgate since cover had to be raised.
Other nice features I have now:
Voice nav - love it!
Heated and AIR CONDITIONED seats - sounds silly but they are awesome
Full SYNC access to phone features
Power fold mirrors
Engine start/stop - seamless in use and saves fuel
Power tailgate - remote lockable
Remote start - Meh
Bigger remote - Why? Dislike
No running boards - Odd. Added aftermarket ones
Wish I had: larger fuel tank

Nice! Can I ask what your available payload is on this new truck?

[Raincity]

Also recommend the extra large fuel tank and towing mirrors if you can get them. The towing mirrors fold and extend all with the push of a button.

[55AS]

1545 lbs

[Bigventure]

Originally Posted by sbowman

I am not seeing any GM TV's. Does any one have a GM diesel that they use as a TV? Size, model, how many doors, long bed/short bed, 4 x 4. Just curious.

Safe and happy travels.

Because the tread is about .....buying a Ford

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by Bigventure

Because the tread is about .....buying a Ford

Oh my............Silly me.

Safe & Happy travels.

[Martee]

Originally Posted by m.hony

I would still get a Tundra-
CrewMax Limited 4x4 with 38 gallon tank, tow mirrors, fender flares, side steps, bed step, and bedliner.
I choose proven reliability over updated style.
Surely the Tundra will be updated soon.

Yes. Toyota rarely goes for major design changes between model years. They prefer to improve reliability of the existing design. Thus falling behind some of the newer Fords in Technology and features. That Toyota strategy reduces sales....but improves long term reliability of the vehicle . I just purchased a Platinum Tundra 4x4 with TRD fender flares, Rear sway bar and Bilstein Shocks. Using ProPride3 Hitch to tow Flying Cloud 25FB.

[rmkrum]

Sounds like our plan, but towing a 23’ International. Same hitch. ‘‘Tis very much overkill, and I’m just fine with that.....

[DKB_SATX]

Thiel:

As you've learned, most car salespeople don't really know anything about what they're selling beyond which accessories and add-ons put more money in their pockets.

I read a good chunk of this thread earlier in the week when I should've been working, and didn't take the time for a response out of my worktime... it's been a busy week! I apologize to you and others if I rehash something I don't remember being upthread from when I was reading previously.

Essentially, the high payloads the salespeople are quoting you are theoretical maximums for trucks you probably don't want. The way to hit those payloads is to buy a mid- or base-trim XLT, or a base-trim Lariat, with the Heavy-Duty Payload Package (option code 627). Unfortunately, Ford wants to sell F250s so they make sure you can't order a high-equipment F150 with HDPP. Top-trim XLT (302A) and mid- and top-trim Lariat (501A or 502A) aren't allowed with HDPP, which rules out lots of fun toys. Since the salespeople only care about your name on the dotted line, they'll tell a pretty story and hope you don't check until you drive it home.

I tow a medium-heavy 26U (loaded for travel about 6k lb and 940 lb tongue) with my 2017 Lariat Supercrew 502A short-bed 4x4 w/ Max Tow (which means 3.5l Ecoboost, 36-gal fuel tank, 3.55:1 e-locker rear axle) and the big power-fold tow mirrors. I traded off some payload for some options a fat guy with short legs really needs (tailgate step, box-side steps) and I put a tonneau on it, which eats a pound or two as well. You will never, ever find a truck like mine sitting on a lot in a big city and I'd venture to guess it'd be hard to find in a rural dealer as well. I custom-ordered mine, and I qualify for the X-plan so I knew what the max I'd be paying was when I went into the process.

My truck was delivered with a stickered payload of 1636 lb (and at least for Ford, that includes a full fuel tank but NOT an allowance for humans.) Across the scales with a full tank, full fresh water, empty waste tanks and loaded for travel, I'm 420 lb under gross on the truck, with 420 lb of headroom on the rear axle and 325 lb remaining on the front axle.

My truck towing my trailer with 2 big guys and a 60-lb dog is relaxed and well-controlled towing the 26U up and down mountain passes and gets about 11 mpg towing overall. I usually run around 68 mph and in 8th because I haven't found 9th to get me any more mileage when towing, and the truck shifts more if I let it use 9th and 10th. It pulled Raton pass at the speed limit without breaking a sweat or moving the engine or transmission temps (obviously not in 8th at that point, nor was it delivering 11 mpg going uphill!)

In mixed suburban sort of driving without the trailer I get a bit over 17 most of the time, and running Texas highway speeds it easily averages over 20 mpg if I'm not driving like a jerk, though I have to say it's a bit too rewarding of a heavy foot so I sometimes take advantage of the big HP and torque that are available, costing me some fuel. Physics and chemistry always win in the end.

If I had it to do again, I might order LT tires but the ones Ford uses aren't universally loved so I may be better off with the XLs and just upgrading to Michelin LTs when those get thin. For my trailer and my current usage pattern, I wouldn't order an F250 in a do-over. The 2WD F250 is nearly as tall as my 4x4 F150 and I'd want a ladder for a 4WD SuperDuty. I think I do too many in-town miles to make for a long-life trouble-free diesel experience (never mind the current emissions-control woes of the diesels.) If we were half-timing in the Airstream, I'd want that extra payload and would more seriously consider the trade-offs of a 3/4 ton. The truck tells me via Ford's smartphone app that I've put 12,641 miles on it to date, and haven't regretted one of them. I gave up a bit of payload for the 4wd system, but after squeezing the Airstream into the only kinda-semi-level spot in our campsite on Casper Mountain in 4L, I'm happy with that choice!

[Ronman]

For not a lot more, consider the F250 diesel. More of everything with much better resale value.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Ronman

For not a lot more, consider the F250 diesel. More of everything with much better resale value.

As close as I can build it to be equipped exactly like my F150, an F250 diesel is $8,880 more than my F150. 15% more.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

It’s possible to under think something, and it’s possible to overthink something.

[edit]

No matter what people say, towing with WD is not the same as raw payload. It just isn’t.

Yup. It's a huge mistake to believe such. It's the aero load that matters. Frontal, and sides. And these trailers are "ideal" as to shape versus efficiency.

Payload discussions are like a comedy routine. Especially as magic one ton trucks pulling the TT on one axle are THE NORM. (Learn to do an axle-split weighing; and use a level across the doorframe).

Engine power and brakes are non-starters these days, even "economy" cars are overpowered. Thus the wide range of vehicle types as TV preclude pickups except as a last resort (besides those who have IRS-deductible solo miles). All of which are far better in solo duty.

Backwards "thinking". Herd swayed by ad copy.

Someone wants a pickup, fine. But it's with the understanding that safety is a low priority. Solo and towing.

A pickup is itself the likely source of an accident. These trailers are more stable than they.

But, best to handicap ones self, since the herd says so. So, let's focus on butt-warmer pickup option packages. AND DOOR STICKERS!!

.

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Thiel:

As you've learned, most car salespeople don't really know anything about what they're selling beyond which accessories and add-ons put more money in their pockets.

I read a good chunk of this thread earlier in the week when I should've been working, and didn't take the time for a response out of my worktime... it's been a busy week! I apologize to you and others if I rehash something I don't remember being upthread from when I was reading previously.

Essentially, the high payloads the salespeople are quoting you are theoretical maximums for trucks you probably don't want. The way to hit those payloads is to buy a mid- or base-trim XLT, or a base-trim Lariat, with the Heavy-Duty Payload Package (option code 627). Unfortunately, Ford wants to sell F250s so they make sure you can't order a high-equipment F150 with HDPP. Top-trim XLT (302A) and mid- and top-trim Lariat (501A or 502A) aren't allowed with HDPP, which rules out lots of fun toys. Since the salespeople only care about your name on the dotted line, they'll tell a pretty story and hope you don't check until you drive it home.

I tow a medium-heavy 26U (loaded for travel about 6k lb and 940 lb tongue) with my 2017 Lariat Supercrew 502A short-bed 4x4 w/ Max Tow (which means 3.5l Ecoboost, 36-gal fuel tank, 3.55:1 e-locker rear axle) and the big power-fold tow mirrors. I traded off some payload for some options a fat guy with short legs really needs (tailgate step, box-side steps) and I put a tonneau on it, which eats a pound or two as well. You will never, ever find a truck like mine sitting on a lot in a big city and I'd venture to guess it'd be hard to find in a rural dealer as well. I custom-ordered mine, and I qualify for the X-plan so I knew what the max I'd be paying was when I went into the process.

My truck was delivered with a stickered payload of 1636 lb (and at least for Ford, that includes a full fuel tank but NOT an allowance for humans.) Across the scales with a full tank, full fresh water, empty waste tanks and loaded for travel, I'm 420 lb under gross on the truck, with 420 lb of headroom on the rear axle and 325 lb remaining on the front axle.

My truck towing my trailer with 2 big guys and a 60-lb dog is relaxed and well-controlled towing the 26U up and down mountain passes and gets about 11 mpg towing overall. I usually run around 68 mph and in 8th because I haven't found 9th to get me any more mileage when towing, and the truck shifts more if I let it use 9th and 10th. It pulled Raton pass at the speed limit without breaking a sweat or moving the engine or transmission temps (obviously not in 8th at that point, nor was it delivering 11 mpg going uphill!)

In mixed suburban sort of driving without the trailer I get a bit over 17 most of the time, and running Texas highway speeds it easily averages over 20 mpg if I'm not driving like a jerk, though I have to say it's a bit too rewarding of a heavy foot so I sometimes take advantage of the big HP and torque that are available, costing me some fuel. Physics and chemistry always win in the end.

If I had it to do again, I might order LT tires but the ones Ford uses aren't universally loved so I may be better off with the XLs and just upgrading to Michelin LTs when those get thin. For my trailer and my current usage pattern, I wouldn't order an F250 in a do-over. The 2WD F250 is nearly as tall as my 4x4 F150 and I'd want a ladder for a 4WD SuperDuty. I think I do too many in-town miles to make for a long-life trouble-free diesel experience (never mind the current emissions-control woes of the diesels.) If we were half-timing in the Airstream, I'd want that extra payload and would more seriously consider the trade-offs of a 3/4 ton. The truck tells me via Ford's smartphone app that I've put 12,641 miles on it to date, and haven't regretted one of them. I gave up a bit of payload for the 4wd system, but after squeezing the Airstream into the only kinda-semi-level spot in our campsite on Casper Mountain in 4L, I'm happy with that choice!

Hello David,

Couple questions after reading what you have stated. "Emissions-control woes of the Diesels"? What woes are you talking about and are you talking of all makes? Last question, a truck such as yours, out the door, tax, license, and any and all whatever costs comes to $?

Safe and happy travels

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Hello David,

Couple questions after reading what you have stated. "Emissions-control woes of the Diesels"? What woes are you talking about and are you talking of all makes? Last question, a truck such as yours, out the door, tax, license, and any and all whatever costs comes to $?

Safe and happy travels

As far as I can tell, all 3 big brands suffered when tighter emissions controls were mandated, and it seems to affect people with lots of "short trip around town" light-duty use more than all-towing-on-highway use. My truck sees a lot of short-trip-in-town use since it's my primary vehicle as well as my tow vehicle. MPG dropped significantly for all 3 brands as they implemented emissions controls and I saw lots of reported problems with particulate filters and DEF systems crop up.

"Out the door" costs are hard to really compare, since TT&L fees vary significantly from state to state. The sticker on my '17 with nearly all the bells and whistles (I didn't go for the sunroof and the "adaptive cruise control" but I've got air-conditioned seats and nav and 360-degree cameras, etc.) was $59,080. I saved an image of the window sticker so that was easy to find. I don't have the purchase agreement so easily at hand, but I custom-ordered under the X-plan and you pay a bit of a penalty for a custom order vs. one that's been costing the dealer money on floorplan for a few months... I paid the X-plan price, which is Ford invoice plus a $100 doc fee. $54k-ish if memory serves.