Changes in HD Truck Market

[bhayden]

Originally Posted by RedSHED

This thread title raised my eyebrows for a moment!
Where I live, Heavy Duty trucks run from 26,000 pounds up to 80,000 (or more -

I'd actually had the same thought the other day driving home and noting all the Volvo, Ivanco, Izusui, Mitsubishi, etc. HD trucks on the road. Of course there's still a lot of PacCar (Peterbuild, Kenworth & ??), Mack, International, GMC, and Fords (sorry if I missed some). Makes me think that it's inevitable that the remaining market in between commercial and 1/2 will be filled with choices from manufacturers other than Ford, Dodge and GM not too far in the future. Maybe I-Hop or others will start to offer rigs again in this range.

Who wouldn't want to tow there Land Yacht with a beautiful new R.E.O .

-Bernie

[scottanlily]

it will be a very cold day in hades when any import manafacture short of volvo build anything that could ever match a Pete or Kenworth or the
venerable Mack truck or an International for that matter ,they can only
dream of building anything like the freightliner or even the CTX International.
I work on a few Isuzu NPR 1 ton style trucks and yes they are heavier built
than the the standard import truck ,but the cabs and seats and many parts
are still light weight tinny and cheaply made . They are very reliable for sure.
They are also very costley to fix as well .The reliability is the key word here
and thats exactly why many buy the imported cars .I have found that the
American vehicals are better at comfort and the imports at reliability,hopefully that can somehow be changed in some way , some day . Im thinking of the
GM 99 -02 5.3 v-8 with the piston slap troubles ,no excuse for that in any way ,GM says its normal ,yes its normal cause they all do it ,but that doesn't make it right .

Scott

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

it will be a very cold day in hades when any import manafacture short of volvo build anything that could ever match a Pete or Kenworth or the
venerable Mack truck or an International for that matter ,they can only
dream of building anything like the freightliner or even the CTX International.
I work on a few Isuzu NPR 1 ton style trucks and yes they are heavier built
than the the standard import truck ,but the cabs and seats and many parts
are still light weight tinny and cheaply made . They are very reliable for sure.
They are also very costley to fix as well .The reliability is the key word here
and thats exactly why many buy the imported cars .I have found that the
American vehicals are better at comfort and the imports at reliability,hopefully that can somehow be changed in some way , some day . Im thinking of the
GM 99 -02 5.3 v-8 with the piston slap troubles ,no excuse for that in any way ,GM says its normal ,yes its normal cause they all do it ,but that doesn't make it right .

Scott

I own 97-01-04-06 GM trucks. Yes, the small block V8 has "piston slap". But it has never resulted in any problems for me? A little noise at cold start up, but thats about it.
One of my small blocks now has 130k on it and it runs as good as the day it left the dealer. Running syn oil appears to solve the tapping issue for my engines...

[Cracker]

Just a side note - GM has extended the parts and labor warranty on the fuel injectors in the 2003 Duramax to 7 years or 200,000 miles. I got my notice last week. Previously, the extended warranty only went through the 2002 series Duramax. I have not personally experienced any injector problems, however, I change my fuel filter at every oil change as a precaution. GM is also offering full reimbursement of costs for any owner who has experienced fuel injector problems subsequent to the original 100,000 mile warranty. I'm not sure if this means that they have not had many problems with the 2003 - and that they are doing the extended warranty as a "goodwill" gesture (---or to demonstrate confidence in the Duramax) - or that they've had a lot of problems and they are simply stepping up to the plate to save face??? In either event, I'm a happier camper!

[azflycaster]

Extending an item for service indicates a problem area. Years ago Toyota extended coverage on my V-6 head gaskets. Two months later, guess what went out on my truck? It's alot cheaper then a class action law suit and it's the right thing to do.

[scottanlily]

I agree that the piston noise in the 5.3 doesn't cause any issue ,except that it does indicate a poorly designed piston /excessive clearance issue. somthing
you accept if you own one of these trucks .I for one would not .GM has been
taking care of the duramax injector problems though ,and thats good.

Scott

[ticki2]

I have a '94 Suburban with 196,000 on it . One radiator , one starter , one tierod end . The one before , '86 , 240,000 , almost the same + rebuilt trans . The one before , '79 , 260,000 , again almost the same . I'd say they hold up pretty good . If we could get rid of the road salt I'd probably still have the '79 .

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

Extending an item for service indicates a problem area. Years ago Toyota extended coverage on my V-6 head gaskets. Two months later, guess what went out on my truck? It's alot cheaper then a class action law suit and it's the right thing to do.

I agree that the piston noise in the 5.3 doesn't cause any issue ,except that it does indicate a poorly designed piston /excessive clearance issue. somthing
you accept if you own one of these trucks .I for one would not .GM has been
taking care of the duramax injector problems though ,and thats good.

Scott

Must be another case of "poor design"...

[RedSHED]

[Rant]
Endless discussions of which is better are entertaining. Discussions of which are least reliable - particularly when based on anecdotal data - are just goofy. All of the big 3 are pretty decent, IMO. Personal taste counts for a lot. Statistically, at least based on the data I've seen for vehicles, they're all within the scatter of each other.

FWIW, the two least reliable vehicles I've ever owned, measured by any metric you'd like: maintenance $/mile, maintenance $/year, maintenance $ as a percentage of price, or however I've crunched it are a Toyota and Honda. Although the '71 Camaro and '51 Willys I once owned came close :-)
The absolute worst was the Suzuki 750. What a pig. Worse than all of Dad's Harleys combined.

Does this mean I'd never own another Toyota, Honda or Suzuki? Of course not. No point in cutting off my metphor to spite my rhetoric, is there?

[/Rant]

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by RedSHED

[Rant]
Endless discussions of which is better are entertaining. Discussions of which are least reliable - particularly when based on anecdotal data - are just goofy. All of the big 3 are pretty decent, IMO. Personal taste counts for a lot. Statistically, at least based on the data I've seen for vehicles, they're all within the scatter of each other.

FWIW, the two least reliable vehicles I've ever owned, measured by any metric you'd like: maintenance $/mile, maintenance $/year, maintenance $ as a percentage of price, or however I've crunched it are a Toyota and Honda. Although the '71 Camaro and '51 Willys I once owned came close :-)
The absolute worst was the Suzuki 750. What a pig. Worse than all of Dad's Harleys combined.

Does this mean I'd never own another Toyota, Honda or Suzuki? Of course not. No point in cutting off my metphor to spite my rhetoric, is there?

[/Rant]

My point exactly- see post #20.

Given that they all make pretty good vehicles nowadays I choose to keep my dollars in the US. Too bad more folks don't feel the same, they sell themselves, and fellow Americans short when they won't even consider US vehicles. It ain't no joke when Ford or GM lays off thousands of workers,so much of our economy reveolves around the automotive market. I don't understand why some folks don't get that. If I can keep one of my brothers in Detroit and his family fed for another year-then great. I'll spend my $50k on American vehicles (including AirStreams).

My .02,
Bill

[scottanlily]

RedSHED, I can't say for sure but you implying that a discussion of such is
irrelevent or the content not supported by facts ,Oh contrare ,I do believe
that anyone with any experience on this discussion does in fact bring to
the table real word facts and information .I first hand see many problems
each and every day in my business of automotive repair ,the past 25 years
in the business does in fact give me a good insight as to what problems are
out there and which vehicals are better or not than the other guys offerings.
Id say having hands on ,on a continual basis does in fact give any one of us
with experience in this field a level of expertise to bring to this discussion.
I for example can name numerouse vehicals that are crap and I would not
own under any circumstances,whats goofy is to not listen others experiences
and go ahead and make a foolish choice regardless of having information
and then complain about it later.Thats why we have consumer reports for
example to help to make an informed decision .So if GM for example cannot ,
as is the case alot of times ,admit to a problem (5.7 v-8 96 to 99 truck)
with major injector failures ,just recall them and fix it without selling you a
500 dollar fuel pump first,or dancing around the issue ,and the 2000 up truck
rear disc brake park brake problems that result in destroyed rotors on a
continual basis and the shoes ,that I run into all the time .Id look at a
manafacturer that does step up and handles the problems as Toyota does.
any thing I bring to this discussion is not just an opinion .I find that just
comparing data and not taking into account the real world facts you cannot
make an informed decision ,it may be a mistake as well.

Scott

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, back in the 80's, I worked at a Ford dealer that also got the franchise to sell Toyotas. Because of this, all of us Ford mechanics besides Ford, had Toyota patches on our uniforms. While out for lunch one day, some guys noticed us Ford mechanics with Toyota patches on our uniforms and asked why did we have Toyota patches on our uniforms. Then made the statement that we [Americans] should ban all foreign cars in this country. My older more knowledgable friend stated, " If we didn't have any competition, The US manufacturers would build any piece of crap they wanted to and charge us whatever they felt like". "We need the competition".
Thank You Toyota for makeing my Fords better!

Bob

[TIMEMACHINE]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, back in the 80's, I worked at a Ford dealer that also got the franchise to sell Toyotas. Because of this, all of us Ford mechanics besides Ford, had Toyota patches on our uniforms. While out for lunch one day, some guys noticed us Ford mechanics with Toyota patches on our uniforms and asked why did we have Toyota patches on our uniforms. Then made the statement that we [Americans] should ban all foreign cars in this country. My older more knowledgable friend stated, " If we didn't have any competition, The US manufacturers would build any piece of crap they wanted to and charge us whatever they felt like". "We need the competition".
Thank You Toyota for makeing my Fords better!

Bob

A very good point indeed! Back then was the Toyota patch smaller than the Ford patch?

John