CanAm hitches?

[Popsnkiki]

We tow a 2018 16' Bambi Sport with our 2016 Sienna AWD van. No issues AT ALL. But, we're wondering if we can tow more. CanAm has indicated we could tow, with their hitches and mods, up to a 30' Classic. Don't need that, but we would like to go maybe up to a 22' +/- with the van. The van is rated at 3500. Thoughts?

[n2916s]

My opinion: CanAm has tons of experience, actually videos the results of many of the set-ups, provides lots of free, well researched advice and actually produce stable, capable towing set-ups that there customers rave about.

While many on the Forums have considerable experience with their own rig, most have no experience beyond that. Not to mention that almost all of us have preset notions about what does and does not constitute a safe, effective towing rig.

So, basically, I wouldn't have even posted the original question once I had an expert opinion from CanAm.

[sheriff1]

If you need can-am, you don't have enough TV.
Your opinion may differ.

[SteveSueMac]

The topic of CanAm tends to bring out two extremes - love/hate.

I consider myself a hybrid. As a 3/4T diesel truck user, I love the power, torque, exhaust brake, and payload capacity when towing. I hate it for everything else (like - daily driving).

I am interested in CanAm's approach - they've done thousands of what appear to be miracles (not quite 1967 VW Beetles towing 30' Classics - but not that far removed...).

But while interested - my barrier to exploring further is related both to warranty and liability.

If CanAm (or any firm selling the kinds of modified setups they do) were willing to honor anything I might lose with the manufacturers' warranties (both truck and trailer) by the mods they were proposing, and, if they would agree to defend me in court in the event of any post-accident proceedings that claimed I was liable for exceeding manufacturer's specs which they would accept the liability for - then I would gladly pursue it further.

They clearly do something amazing, effective and valuable for thousands of users over a couple generations. And for that you'll hear a lot of "love" votes.

Most people - myself included, don't understand the physics enough to be comfortable with it - and/or can't live that far out of the "rules" set down by manufacturers - which is where you'll get a lot of the "hate" votes.

You now also have a hybrid opinion that sees both sides of that and with the right warranty and liability coverage would be willing to pursue.

Explore from all sides and decide on whatever works for you. Good luck!

[dkottum]

Modern minivans are a very stable platform. The major limiting factor that has been holding them at 3500 for years is the weakness of the hitch receiver. Can-Am reinforces the hitch receiver by essentially running a torsion bar forward to resist vertical twist when weight distribution is applied. They also do more, dependent on each particular vehicle. They have set up thousands of these for towing. With that experience I wouldn't trust anyone else to do it.

The other issue is asking for this advice on an internet forum. Everyone can be an expert, and it's loaded with personal bias. Expect presentation of legal opinions and insurance warnings that have never been substantiated, as well as more than a few insults.

[AWCHIEF]

Just because you can does not mean you should.

[Popsnkiki]

Originally Posted by n2916s

My opinion: CanAm has tons of experience, actually videos the results of many of the set-ups, provides lots of free, well researched advice and actually produce stable, capable towing set-ups that there customers rave about.

While many on the Forums have considerable experience with their own rig, most have no experience beyond that. Not to mention that almost all of us have preset notions about what does and does not constitute a safe, effective towing rig.

So, basically, I wouldn't have even posted the original question once I had an expert opinion from CanAm.

I understand your thoughts on posting here and getting varied and bias opinions and advice, but my thought was it'd be no different than getting a bias opinion from a CanAM rep.

[Popsnkiki]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

Just because you can does not mean you should.

Agree.

[Popsnkiki]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Modern minivans are a very stable platform. The major limiting factor that has been holding them at 3500 for years is the weakness of the hitch receiver. Can-Am reinforces the hitch receiver by essentially running a torsion bar forward to resist vertical twist when weight distribution is applied. They also do more, dependent on each particular vehicle. They have set up thousands of these for towing. With that experience I wouldn't trust anyone else to do it.

The other issue is asking for this advice on an internet forum. Everyone can be an expert, and it's loaded with personal bias. Expect presentation of legal opinions and insurance warnings that have never been substantiated, as well as more than a few insults.

Thanks, and I see what you mean. Didn't anticipate some of this rhetoric from an AS forum, but so be it.

The CanAm rep did answer every question I could think of, but as I mentioned in an earlier reply, she would of course be slanted toward what results in a sale for them. Here I hoped to receive constructive advice or educated speculation, experiences and opinions from those who may have "been there done that" with minivans + AS. My experience via YouTube and other forums has been that overall, they are the go-to name in RV hitch-work (if there is such a trade). I sought input here from other Streamers who may know a little something about the topic.

[Popsnkiki]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

The topic of CanAm tends to bring out two extremes - love/hate.

I consider myself a hybrid. As a 3/4T diesel truck user, I love the power, torque, exhaust brake, and payload capacity when towing. I hate it for everything else (like - daily driving).

I am interested in CanAm's approach - they've done thousands of what appear to be miracles (not quite 1967 VW Beetles towing 30' Classics - but not that far removed...).

But while interested - my barrier to exploring further is related both to warranty and liability.

If CanAm (or any firm selling the kinds of modified setups they do) were willing to honor anything I might lose with the manufacturers' warranties (both truck and trailer) by the mods they were proposing, and, if they would agree to defend me in court in the event of any post-accident proceedings that claimed I was liable for exceeding manufacturer's specs which they would accept the liability for - then I would gladly pursue it further.

They clearly do something amazing, effective and valuable for thousands of users over a couple generations. And for that you'll hear a lot of "love" votes.

Most people - myself included, don't understand the physics enough to be comfortable with it - and/or can't live that far out of the "rules" set down by manufacturers - which is where you'll get a lot of the "hate" votes.

You now also have a hybrid opinion that sees both sides of that and with the right warranty and liability coverage would be willing to pursue.

Explore from all sides and decide on whatever works for you. Good luck!

Thanks. I appreciate your insight. I agree. CanAm promoting their product is one thing, and their vast array of experience is noteworthy. All that is great until the gavel falls, if you will.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Popsnkiki

Thanks. I appreciate your insight. I agree. CanAm promoting their product is one thing, and their vast array of experience is noteworthy. All that is great until the gavel falls, if you will.

I've found that they aren't aggressively trying to "promote" sales of hitch work and set ups as they seem quite busy.

I'd be careful about towing with any light duty vehicle because of wear on the drivetrain and brakes. As far as all the legal stuff being flung around here, ask a car dealer next time you buy a car if they'll back you in court after you wreck it.

[SCOTTinNJ]

I owned a brand new honda odyssy when I bought my first airstream. Spoke to can am and gave serious consideration to hooking up a 23'er.

Ended up trading the Honda for an f150 and bought a 25.

Could the Honda have handled the 25 well. I doubt it.

Few years later I bought a 30' and kept the f150.

I still have the 30' but tow with a gas f250.

I would never even think of towing my trailer with the old honda. The f150 felt inadequate.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Popsnkiki

Thanks. I appreciate your insight. I agree. CanAm promoting their product is one thing, and their vast array of experience is noteworthy. All that is great until the gavel falls, if you will.

Well if I can argue against my own view for a minute - I haven't heard of a single case of an accident with a CanAm modified rig that resulted in a civil suit against the owner for exceeding manufacturer ratings.

I just think of it as a frequency vs. severity issue and I have a lower risk tolerance than others. It may only happen once in 100,000 times but could be financially catastrophic if it does. So without any protection against that, I steer clear. Your mileage may vary.

I originally wanted a PullRite hitch for my (then brand new) truck which would have required mods to the exhaust system. I talked with my dealer about it and they were willing to put in writing that the proposed mods would not impact my warranty. I would have proceeded but the hitch manufacturer decided to stop making them for my model year and beyond so the point was moot. This is just how I operate.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

...snip...
As far as all the legal stuff being flung around here, ask a car dealer next time you buy a car if they'll back you in court after you wreck it.

I think you may be misrepresenting my point. Of course no dealer would do that. But if the dealer did mods to the car that violated manufacturer specs and ratings for some perceived advantage - it would be foolish to not understand the impact on manufacturer warranty those mods may cause, or to consider your potential liability if in an accident some trial attorney can link to your decision to use those mods.

Low odds - perhaps. High risk - perhaps. Do whatever works for you, but don't ignore the possibility of negative consequences for the perceived benefits.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I think you may be misrepresenting my point. Of course no dealer would do that. But if the dealer did mods to the car that violated manufacturer specs and ratings for some perceived advantage - it would be foolish to not understand the impact on manufacturer warranty those mods may cause, or to consider your potential liability if in an accident some trial attorney can link to your decision to use those mods.

Low odds - perhaps. High risk - perhaps. Do whatever works for you, but don't ignore the possibility of negative consequences for the perceived benefits.

An Airstream pulled by an expensive TV is lawyer bait whether or not you follow all the ratings. No dealer is going to assume any liability if you wreck it. Driver error will always be the first thing they look at.

Don't get me wrong, I went with the biggest pickup Ford makes to pull our Bambi but I still drive conservatively. Every weekend I see campers up and down I-75 with their blinkers going every 5 seconds changing lanes and I just shake my head. I've noticed a few undersized tow vehicles and most of them are at least being careful. Last weekend I saw an Airstream being pulled by a Toyota SUV and it stayed in one lane for 10 miles.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Popsnkiki

We tow a 2018 16' Bambi Sport with our 2016 Sienna AWD van. No issues AT ALL. But, we're wondering if we can tow more. CanAm has indicated we could tow, with their hitches and mods, up to a 30' Classic. Don't need that, but we would like to go maybe up to a 22' +/- with the van. The van is rated at 3500. Thoughts?

What are the wheel/tire/axle ratings? It's how we'd have done this in 1967. No different in 2017 a half century later. Except that today's vehicles are better.

A TW of, say, 800-lbs will be distributed across the three axle locations according to the old rules by one-third apiece. That's 266-lbs to each.

More likely, 75% will stay with the TV. That's roughly 300-lbs to each Axle location, roughly, on the TV.

A 23' has a TW of?

This stuff isn't rocket science.

How well the TV tows the TT has as much or more to do with its design than anything else.

Today's vehicles suitable are all overpowered. I'd imagine all have four wheel disc brakes. Far better steering, not to mention traction and stability control.

Getting all excited about warranty was covered 45-years ago by Magnuson-Moss for the most part.

Liability is a non-starter. One is driving well, or one isnt. End of that discussion. (Though there does seem to be a relation between too much TV and too high towing speeds).

The cars we used didn't wear out early. My Dad sold his last one at 187,000-miles and 12-years pulling a 7500-lb Silver Streak. The second owner was using it to tow an enclosed two car trailer with his Triumph roadsters. Motor still untouched at 240k.

Let's cover those "ratings": Will the vehicle CONSTANTLY be loaded at or near capacity? Will the trailer in tow every work day EXCEED rating?

You all are vacationers. If 5k of your annual 18k miles are with the TV loaded and towing, where's the problem? That's not even a third of annual miles.

Worse, with a demonstrably less safe TV used in solo duty, risk has gone UP not down.

What's the tradeoff? Slower up the grades, and from a stop. Whoa, huge penalty!!

0-60 in 20 seconds is very good. 0-60 in 30 is fine. It can take me almost six minutes on level terrain to get my loaded tanker from zero at a rest area to setting the cruise at 64-mph. 360+ seconds. I rarely if ever enter an Interstate above 35-mph. So this, like much else that frightens the timid, is a question of experience.

Call yourself a fool if you're passing slow traffic on a grade with anything more than about a 15-mph advantage. (Loudly).

If they're down to 35, you shouldn't be passing them more than about 50. Solo. Empty. Perfect weather.

Brakes? The lighter vehicle is better off given that the trailer properly hitched (the Can Am specialty) will stop the combined rig faster than the TV when solo. The lighter the overall rig, the easier this is to accomplish.

Guess which steers and handles better?

Etc.

The upgrade to the vehicles that will help most is antilock trailer disc brakes.

OP, if you saw as many AS rigs on the road as I do, you'd just get yourself over to Can Am and have at it. I've been passed by their setups. How do I know? The difference between a slot car and a farm tractor. (The Ontario plates were another giveaway). In one instance I was a bit perturbed by the assertive,, almost aggressive driving. But the rig wasn't at its limits. (Porsche Cayenne up front).

We were pretty good at this in our family. But we've nothing but admiration for the way Thomson & Co systematized this. And custom hitch builders have all but disappeared.

I'd like to take my rig up there and have a few tweaks done.

StefeSue, will you guarantee that if I drive to upstate NY it won't rain (couldn't resist that)? I took one work truck back to a dealership a number of times. Rated for 12k trailer. I pulled 22k trailers 24/7/365 in oilfield. Warranty wasn't an issue. You live just around the corner from Can Am. Take your current rig over. Get some tweaks. And do some test drives with those car/trailer combos they have. Buy one or not, it's a lot easier than transporting you back 35-years to the Texas where my old man still used a Cadillac.

And, the real secret to the "relief" experienced by those who keep buying bigger? Lack of experience -- confidence -- in understanding that working a vehicle up near its potential entails more driver attention. Until it doesn't. It won't wear out sooner. Or be subject to more repairs for the majority of miles used. Will you keep it or ANY OTHER more than 200k miles? Could be a difference then. But some dollars won't offset higher overall risk.

Best road vehicle has best steering and brakes. Best design for stability.

The rest is second and third order stuff.
.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I think the real bottom line is that they can't do much for the drivetrain or brakes. Depending on how much you tow and where you tow, that can be a non issue or a really big deal. Two trips a year at 200 miles across the flats is not going to nuke much of anything. Running up and down the hills in the Rockies on a regular basis will strain any TV. How that applies to your specific case, only you know.

Bob

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

An Airstream pulled by an expensive TV is lawyer bait whether or not you follow all the ratings. No dealer is going to assume any liability if you wreck it. Driver error will always be the first thing they look at.

Don't get me wrong, I went with the biggest pickup Ford makes to pull our Bambi but I still drive conservatively. Every weekend I see campers up and down I-75 with their blinkers going every 5 seconds changing lanes and I just shake my head. I've noticed a few undersized tow vehicles and most of them are at least being careful. Last weekend I saw an Airstream being pulled by a Toyota SUV and it stayed in one lane for 10 miles.

I rarely change lanes at all. Might go 6-700 miles total on consecutive days and not ever have to pass. Why should ten miles stand out?

Not a criticism implied. Perplexity. If folks understood AVERAGE mph they'd get over themselves as to speed. Greater risk, higher expense and a marginal gain too small to matter.

Don't mix with governed truck traffic running 64-65 and life is easy. I've recently covered several tens of thousands at 62 in a governed big truck and it's not worthy of comment as to "problems". There are none. After 5-6 days continuous travel it's far less wearing than running above 67.

.

[Mrjkq]

I don't know much about Can-Am except what I read here, but I do know a lot about safe towing and it takes more than a beefed up hitch set up to make an inadequate vehicle capable of safe towing.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Mrjkq

I don't know much about Can-Am except what I read here, but I do know a lot about safe towing and it takes more than a beefed up hitch set up to make an inadequate vehicle capable of safe towing.

It would be a disservice to Can-Am to suggest that all they do is beef up hitches.

Their primary focus appears to be on set-up of the combined rig.