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Old 04-07-2021, 12:31 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
I agree and I will take it a step further. Most salespeople who sell trucks know very little about trucks. They’re trained to sell luxury features and technology, not towing and hauling features. If you do a little bit of research before heading to a dealership, then you’ll probably know more about the vehicles than the salesperson.
And I'll go further still.

Sales people are in the business of sales. Not necessarily information, and only when the information is aligned and convenient with the primary goal. They'll feed you what you want to hear, with features and highlights to grab at your emotions, to make the sale.
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Old 04-07-2021, 12:45 PM   #142
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If, as a consumer, you are depending on salespeople for product information you are making a mistake and the fault is your own. The sales business, from a salespersons perspective, is structured to reward closings. In most cases product knowledge is not the most productive tool to facilitate closings. For the most part all the information a consumer needs is available through other sources. Cars, trucks, boats, houses, you name it, you need to inform yourself with the necessary product knowledge and using a salesperson's time is not the expedient way to do this. Educate yourself then use the salesperson for what they are there for, get a deal closed.
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Old 04-07-2021, 02:48 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

These numbers have very little to do with how the rig handles.
They are only one element in the whole "pick a TV" equation.

Bob
I totally agree with you. Seems like so many here only care about the sticker and the payload.
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Old 04-07-2021, 03:22 PM   #144
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I like my BIG RED. 3/4 ton. 3,111 # payload. 4x4. 6.2L Gas.

There may be others like it, but this one is mine
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Old 04-08-2021, 07:29 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
I totally agree with you. Seems like so many here only care about the sticker and the payload.
Hi

It's hard enough to get people simply to realize that the numbers matter. Getting them to understand that those numbers are *limits* rather than targets .... not so much.

Further complicating things is the fact that stability issues may take a while to spot. This wind from that direction at this speed ( or some such thing ).

It also is telling (if you go back to old threads ) how many folks seem to have changed their mind a year or two later. Seems that the "big truck" that was absolutely impossible to consider now is sitting in the driveway .....

Not everybody tows 10,000 or 20,000 miles a year. Some folks don't get past a couple hundred miles. You might be ok with this or that for a couple hours. Putting up with it for weeks on end ....that's different.

Lots of variables.

bob
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:35 AM   #146
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6.7 Cummins tows it nicely , this is mine
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:58 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob View Post
Hi

It's hard enough to get people simply to realize that the numbers matter. Getting them to understand that those numbers are *limits* rather than targets .... not so much.

Further complicating things is the fact that stability issues may take a while to spot. This wind from that direction at this speed ( or some such thing ).

It also is telling (if you go back to old threads ) how many folks seem to have changed their mind a year or two later. Seems that the "big truck" that was absolutely impossible to consider now is sitting in the driveway .....

Not everybody tows 10,000 or 20,000 miles a year. Some folks don't get past a couple hundred miles. You might be ok with this or that for a couple hours. Putting up with it for weeks on end ....that's different.

Lots of variables.

bob
Well said, UB...but seems those folks who are out of compliance --and know it, don't seem to care...
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:19 AM   #148
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I drove from Austin TX back to Missouri yesterday, 800 miles. I noticed a lot of big really trailers going down the highway, some with three axles and more slide outs than I could count. Just massive trailers. Mostly pulled by one tons. I just have a very difficult time thinking I need this same truck to pull my tiny 25’ AS.
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Old 04-09-2021, 06:28 AM   #149
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Oh I wish.
We are replacing our 2014 Tundra with a new Tundra. At the dealer I asked our salesperson what the payload was. He gives me a figure I know is too high. He says he got it from the App.

Sales manager confirms that is the payload for the vehicle we are buying. (it's en route and coming to them this week.)

In their lot while looking over the current Tundra, I show them the DOOR STICKER and how it lists the specific payload for that VIN as it left the factory.

Mind Blown by both of them.
THIS is what showed up to the dealer, after them telling me that the Payload was 1520 pounds....from the App.

I would like my deposit back please.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:12 AM   #150
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Thank you for Transparency

Piggy Bank - thank you for sharing your Tundra’s payload sticker. That number is close to what ALL the Tundra’s I looked at on dealers lots were before I decided to go BIG with an F250! There is indisputable evidence the Tundra’s are extremely reliable and dependable, but the OEM has decided to stay away from providing better payload numbers.

Out of curiosity -
1. Did you receive an explanation on why the payload on the delivered truck was less than on the Toyota app?
2. what is the payload on your current Tundra?
My payload requirements for my 26’ AS, might be close to yours? 1K lbs in tongue weight, 200 lbs in ARE topper, 300+ Lbs for driver and navigator, and about 500 lbs in cargo (longer trips the number is bigger, shorter trips smaller), for an approximate 2000 lb payload requirement. This total exceeds anything Toyota manufactures. But as Uncle Bob so eloquently stated - everyone’s towing requirement is different, in number of days towing, requirements to tow in mountains, and weight of trailer towed.
3. What TV will you order next?
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:48 AM   #151
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Indeed...dealers typically just don't get it on Payload!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
THIS is what showed up to the dealer, after them telling me that the Payload was 1520 pounds....from the App.

I would like my deposit back please.
Thanks for sharing your actual payload sticker pic, and dealers quote of 1520lbs...I would be furious also and demand my money back! Let us know how this turns out...I know you can get a fairly well equiped GM or Ford with payloads now in the 1700-2000lb range..not sure if GM includes the tow mirrors however...they didn't few years ago when i was looking at a Denali with max tow package... The F150's can be built with pretty elegant features and still have a great payload number these days also. With my 3 different 25's, I found the F150 EB 4x4 back in 2012 when it was new, to be pretty good (except for payload) back in the day. Only issues were braking down steep passes, and extreme heat at freeway speed like in Vegas summer, I had to slow to 45 to get temps down. Not sure about the new models, but folks seem to be pretty happy...anything larger than a 25', and I still recommend 3/4T-1T with a diesel! (especially if you travel/tow a lot)

That said, I do still miss the F150 for driving around town!
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:49 AM   #152
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1-Their explanation was basically gross combined weight - curb weight = payload.

I then explained that our hitch weight, plus occupants, plus food and cargo can't go over that door sticker. That despite what they SAY is payload, that the door sticker is what the manufacturer rates the vehicle to do. To stop safely, to accelerate safely and within the engineering of the engine and transmission. And that if there was an accident that is what would be evaluated. Sales manager called a few other dealers and asked them to go look at the door stickers and see what they said. They literally have no other way of knowing. He was perplexed. He found all were in the 1200 range. The only possible explanation we could come up with is that the new ones have the larger fuel tank.

2-our 2014 Tundra is sticker at 1335#. To us this is already at max with 2 occupants, and lightly loaded. We bought the current model when we towed a 22 Bambi. But we feel we could not go down to 1200 knowing what we do.

3-Looking at Ford F150.
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Old 04-09-2021, 10:34 AM   #153
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I pretty much confirm that in my experience most sales people can't really relate towing and the need to properly size their tow vehicle. I remember my sales person when I bought my 3/4 ton van, asking me how I knew so much about the topic. I custom ordered my van and she asked me why I was configuring the van with different options like engine, axle ratios, and other features. She even went so far as to ask if she could call me if she got into a situation when helping a customer who wanted to tow in the future.

One of the big things I learned when researching my new vehicle was bigger is not better and if I had chosen the 1 ton van, I would have lost towing capacity. At the time my engine choice and axle ratio was the largest that GM offered for the vans. The 1 ton van with the same engine and axle was downrated on towing capacity due to the weight difference due to the suspension and frame components being heavier. It pays to do your homework.

While at the time I ordered my new van, I was using a half ton Chevy van pulling a 6,500 lb 27' Safari. The old van truly was perfectly adequate for that trailer, I had my eye on the future and knew that there may be a larger Airstream someday. It was quite surprising when I got the 3/4 ton van how much better the handling was than the half ton. Specifically I found things like the rebound that you get when towing over wavy surfaced roads was much improved and I just loved the fact of the additional power from moving to a 5.7 liter engine to a 6.0 liter and 4.10 rear axle gave me. Also beneficial was the fact that the transmission in the 3/4 ton van was a heavier duty model and capable of towing the Safari in OD with no difference in towing mpg.

Little did I expect that about a year later I was able to move to my 31' Classic Slide out without any misgivings.

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Old 04-10-2021, 05:22 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
THIS is what showed up to the dealer, after them telling me that the Payload was 1520 pounds....from the App.

I would like my deposit back please.
So, for 300 pounds (on the door sticker) you walked away? Ok..
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:23 AM   #155
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Actually it is more like for about 100 pounds we walked away and into a Ford.

The 2014 Toyota had 1335 on the door sticker.
The 2021 at 1220 was below what we felt was safe for how we tow and camp.

Will be interesting to see what Toyota does in 2022 with their upcoming redesign of the Tundra.
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:06 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
Actually it is more like for about 100 pounds we walked away and into a Ford.

The 2014 Toyota had 1335 on the door sticker.
The 2021 at 1220 was below what we felt was safe for how we tow and camp.

Will be interesting to see what Toyota does in 2022 with their upcoming redesign of the Tundra.
I think many here have been "waiting" for Toyota to wake up their Tundra with many new improvements to be more competitive in the towing area: improve gas mileage, increase payload, replace the 6 speed transmission...just a few important changes that will help them grow their market, perhaps. Ford and GM seem to have woke up a few years back. RAM and Toyota still lag in the payload and MPG towing area for sure..
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Old 04-11-2021, 11:55 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
Actually it is more like for about 100 pounds we walked away and into a Ford.

The 2014 Toyota had 1335 on the door sticker.
The 2021 at 1220 was below what we felt was safe for how we tow and camp.

Will be interesting to see what Toyota does in 2022 with their upcoming redesign of the Tundra.
Cool, I hope you get a truck that does the job safely and you don’t have to worry about that door sticker. Sounds like you’ve got it nailed. (Thumbs up)
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:20 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
I drove from Austin TX back to Missouri yesterday, 800 miles. I noticed a lot of big really trailers going down the highway, some with three axles and more slide outs than I could count. Just massive trailers. Mostly pulled by one tons. I just have a very difficult time thinking I need this same truck to pull my tiny 25’ AS.
Those are mainly 5th Wheels.Some are near or over 20 Thousand pound trailers.
All Airstream trailers are "Bumper pull" .
Due to huge variety of tow vehicle sizes+ numbers, bumper pull trailers, of all sizes, from tiny lawn trailers to big campers, make up the majority of all ltrailer size rigs.
A bumper pull trailer has inherent size limitations, due to the fact it's not pulled with a 5th Wheel setup.That makes it much more problematic.
One must understand their weight and loading issues.
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Old 04-11-2021, 02:39 PM   #159
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We are Good To Go.

Husband got it set up today and says that feels great.

Ford F-150 with ecoboost 3.6 liter and Max Tow Pkg.
Door sticker payload of 1736 pounds.
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Old 04-12-2021, 04:24 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Cole View Post
Those are mainly 5th Wheels.Some are near or over 20 Thousand pound trailers.
All Airstream trailers are "Bumper pull" .
Due to huge variety of tow vehicle sizes+ numbers, bumper pull trailers, of all sizes, from tiny lawn trailers to big campers, make up the majority of all ltrailer size rigs.
A bumper pull trailer has inherent size limitations, due to the fact it's not pulled with a 5th Wheel setup.That makes it much more problematic.
One must understand their weight and loading issues.
I was aware of most of this. I just didn’t realize going from 20,000 pound fifth wheel to 7,000 pound bumper pull required the same truck. Really shows how poorly designed bumper pull trailers are.
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