BMW 2020 X5 4.0i

[bono]

Yep, some countries allow for 100 km/h towing. Some require electric brakes for this.

100 km/h = 62 mph without weight distribution and with 4-8% tongue weight. Last time I checked, I have not heard about massive number of accidents involving travel trailers in Europe. Maybe the reason is that in Europe nobody uses trucks for towing? Instead, sedans and SUVs do the job.

[BayouBiker]

Available data suggests it has to do with the distribution of trailer sizes. In Europe mean size is substantially smaller.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Available data suggests it has to do with the distribution of trailer sizes. In Europe mean size is substantially smaller.

Lots of long trailers in Europe. However, all trailers I saw tended to have tanks and appliances over the axles, not at the extremes. Trailers are more stable because of how they are designed and built, irrespective of length.

[bono]

If I show you regular European TV size (mostly sedans or station wagons) vs. TT size, you will find another reason to support your believe. Maybe different tire compound, different shape of the road curves, etc. Let's stop it here.

[RickyV]

I'm about to embark on our first trip, 300 miles from the Seattle to the Oregon Coast -- 2019 AS Nest (4,000 GTWR) towed by our 2020 BMW X5 4.0i. It's mostly level traveling, with some curves an no prolonged uphill grades.

I'll post the results, but I can already say that I myself would not tow more than 5,000 GTWR. The reason is that, during my "test drive" the torque reading was upwards of 375 lb/ft. throughout a 3/4 mile uphill grade.

I would not want to put my X5 on a 5% grade for 5 miles on Tejon Pass while towing a 6,000+ GTWR trailer, even if I was going 30 mph in low gear.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by bono

If I show you regular European TV size (mostly sedans or station wagons) vs. TT size, you will find another reason to support your believe. Maybe different tire compound, different shape of the road curves, etc. Let's stop it here.

You seem to think I'm a big truck lover when in reality I very much dislike my wife's truck. We own it because of the jobs it performs, otherwise it would be gone and I wouldn't cry a single tear. I try to provide facts accurate information untainted by bias. I can do so because because I don't have an axe to grind and I don't favor even my tow vehicle.

One can cherry pick photo's of fairly rare configurations all day long. Valid statistical data of the entire distribution of tow vehicles and trailers can't be manipulated.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by RickyV

I'm about to embark on our first trip, 300 miles from the Seattle to the Oregon Coast -- 2019 AS Nest (4,000 GTWR) towed by our 2020 BMW X5 4.0i. It's mostly level traveling, with some curves an no prolonged uphill grades.

I'll post the results, but I can already say that I myself would not tow more than 5,000 GTWR. The reason is that, during my "test drive" the torque reading was upwards of 375 lb/ft. throughout a 3/4 mile uphill grade.

I would not want to put my X5 on a 5% grade for 5 miles on Tejon Pass while towing a 6,000+ GTWR trailer, even if I was going 30 mph in low gear.

That is pretty impressive, given that the engine is rated 330 lb-ft.

Maximum torque is at 1500 rpm on the 40i, and if you were operating up a long hill at that engine speed you may want to drop a gear and let the revs climb. More revs means more hp, and torque doesn’t get you up the hill, hp does.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by jcl

That is pretty impressive, given that the engine is rated 330 lb-ft.

Maybe the extra torque came from the electric motor?

edit: sorry, I was misremembering. It's the Mercedes that has an electric motor.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by jcl

That is pretty impressive, given that the engine is rated 330 lb-ft.

Maximum torque is at 1500 rpm on the 40i, and if you were operating up a long hill at that engine speed you may want to drop a gear and let the revs climb. More revs means more hp, and torque doesn’t get you up the hill, hp does.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh! How quickly you forget...

[RickyV]

Trip completed! Thank you to everyone on this thread -- I've learned a lot, and laughed a lot at my non-precise data (375 lbs/ft torque, V6 engine, etc.). Here are my final observations, learnings and recommendations vis-a-vis a 2020 BMW X5 and towing an AS.

My observations and learnings can be summed up in two statements.

1. I can take a nap while my wife drives our 2020 BMW X5, without reading postings from this thread, without me coaching her on when to down shift if she's not getting enough power to pull our sub -5,000 lbs trailer, without telling her we should have bought a truck.

2. After we setup at our camp base, and detach the AS, we can accelerate through the twisties with the the panoramic sunroof wide-open as if we had towed our convertible sports car to the campgrounds.

(The only other vehicle that I would think would have the same or better two results would be the Porsche Cayenne)

And my (I know that some on this thread may disagree) recommendation: If you have a 2020 BMW X5, with a factory installed hitch, then tow an AS with a GVWR of less than 5,500 lbs, and hitch weight less than 550 lbs.

Thanks everyone!

[WhereItsAt]

I have no doubt that the BMW could handle a 7,200 trailer very well, even with the proper tongue weight for the trailer (~720 pounds). But I agree that I would keep the tongue weight under 551 pounds as BMW suggests, which limits trailers to 5,50 pounds and less. I escalated my complaint with BMW and was told that tongue weight limit is a strict 551 pounds. They wouldn't answer why, despite my pointing out that no trailer weighing 7,200 would be safe towing with 550 pound tongue weight at moderate speeds. Given how tiny Airstreams are, I don't see one in our future because the 23's are not suitable for us. I should have purchased the Cayenne.

[bono]

I agree that this is disappointing that BMW does not care about the US owners who want to use the car for towing. It appears that they just are using more less 8% tongue weight, which is the higher end for tongue weight in Europe. Likely, they know that there are not many owners in the US interested in towing anything larger and just keep the TW specs close to the European standard (although the car is rated to 7,700 lbs in the rest of the world).

[jcl]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

I have no doubt that the BMW could handle a 7,200 trailer very well, even with the proper tongue weight for the trailer (~720 pounds). But I agree that I would keep the tongue weight under 551 pounds as BMW suggests, which limits trailers to 5,50 pounds and less. I escalated my complaint with BMW and was told that tongue weight limit is a strict 551 pounds. They wouldn't answer why, despite my pointing out that no trailer weighing 7,200 would be safe towing with 550 pound tongue weight at moderate speeds. Given how tiny Airstreams are, I don't see one in our future because the 23's are not suitable for us. I should have purchased the Cayenne.

They couldn’t answer why. You were contacting a marketing organization which won’t be able to advise on technical issues. An alternative is to contact a towing expert such as CanAm. They have experience with the X5

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by RickyV

Trip completed! Thank you to everyone on this thread -- I've learned a lot, and laughed a lot at my non-precise data (375 lbs/ft torque, V6 engine, etc.). Here are my final observations, learnings and recommendations vis-a-vis a 2020 BMW X5 and towing an AS.

My observations and learnings can be summed up in two statements.

1. I can take a nap while my wife drives our 2020 BMW X5, without reading postings from this thread, without me coaching her on when to down shift if she's not getting enough power to pull our sub -5,000 lbs trailer, without telling her we should have bought a truck.

2. After we setup at our camp base, and detach the AS, we can accelerate through the twisties with the the panoramic sunroof wide-open as if we had towed our convertible sports car to the campgrounds.

(The only other vehicle that I would think would have the same or better two results would be the Porsche Cayenne)

And my (I know that some on this thread may disagree) recommendation: If you have a 2020 BMW X5, with a factory installed hitch, then tow an AS with a GVWR of less than 5,500 lbs, and hitch weight less than 550 lbs.

Thanks everyone!

Did you use a weight distribution hitch? Which one?

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by RickyV

Trip completed! Thank you to everyone on this thread -- I've learned a lot, and laughed a lot at my non-precise data (375 lbs/ft torque, V6 engine, etc.). Here are my final observations, learnings and recommendations vis-a-vis a 2020 BMW X5 and towing an AS.

My observations and learnings can be summed up in two statements.

1. I can take a nap while my wife drives our 2020 BMW X5, without reading postings from this thread, without me coaching her on when to down shift if she's not getting enough power to pull our sub -5,000 lbs trailer, without telling her we should have bought a truck.

2. After we setup at our camp base, and detach the AS, we can accelerate through the twisties with the the panoramic sunroof wide-open as if we had towed our convertible sports car to the campgrounds.

(The only other vehicle that I would think would have the same or better two results would be the Porsche Cayenne)

And my (I know that some on this thread may disagree) recommendation: If you have a 2020 BMW X5, with a factory installed hitch, then tow an AS with a GVWR of less than 5,500 lbs, and hitch weight less than 550 lbs.

Thanks everyone!

Sound advice.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

I have no doubt that the BMW could handle a 7,200 trailer very well, even with the proper tongue weight for the trailer (~720 pounds). But I agree that I would keep the tongue weight under 551 pounds as BMW suggests, which limits trailers to 5,50 pounds and less. I escalated my complaint with BMW and was told that tongue weight limit is a strict 551 pounds. They wouldn't answer why, despite my pointing out that no trailer weighing 7,200 would be safe towing with 550 pound tongue weight at moderate speeds. Given how tiny Airstreams are, I don't see one in our future because the 23's are not suitable for us. I should have purchased the Cayenne.

All available objective evidence indicates they can't handle a 7200 trailer. They have issues with sway and over steer stability at speeds in excess of about 55 mph. The SAE trailer handling tests support this. BMW engineers know this.

[bono]

That's funny. Give me one "objective evidence" that BMW X5 can't handle a 7,200 lbs trailer? Just to be on the same page - your "model" does not count

Only on this forum you have two BMW X5 which has been towing trailer heavier than 7,200 lbs. I have 17-18k towing miles. The other user between 50 and 100k (I do not remember correctly). You are still preaching that this car is not capable.

Maybe it's time to move on...?

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

All available objective evidence indicates they can't handle a 7200 trailer. They have issues with sway and over steer stability at speeds in excess of about 55 mph. The SAE trailer handling tests support this. BMW engineers know this.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

All available objective evidence indicates they can't handle a 7200 trailer. They have issues with sway and over steer stability at speeds in excess of about 55 mph. The SAE trailer handling tests support this. BMW engineers know this.

1) False. Your computer simulation model apparently supports this. None of the rest of us have a copy of it. You don’t pay attention to test results and real world experience.
2) False. You can get a TUV certification (which isn’t just a test standard, but rather a safety certification that gets you a permit) for more than that, at full rated tow capacity.
3) The SAE test procedure isn’t a standard, and should not be used to predict real world results. It certainly doesn’t use an Airstream, for example.
4) BMW engineers are in Europe, not Pennsylvania. If they choose to test their vehicle at a lower tow vehicle weight in the US, it is because they don’t consider US towing ratings to be a market differentiator. They are probably correct.

[BayouBiker]

1. I keep asking for objective real world evasive maneuver tests at 65mph, but nobody has any. The BMW recorded SAE results are not performed at 65 but they can easily be used to calibrate 65. Numerous X5 owners with no bias or axe to grind have reported on this forum over steer and other instability tells at 60+ mph with trailers in the 5000 to 6500 lb range . Bono won't drive his rig faster than 62 and thinks anyone who does so is taking a huge risk. All of this is objective evidence in support of my claims.

You and bono have provided zero objective data to support your position, nothing.

2) Does the TUV certification require stability tests for sway in crosswinds and over steer at 62 mph? Let me answer that for you, no.

3) The SAE tests are industry standards for the US market, and are reliable predictors of tow vehicle handling stability at 65 mph.

4) BMW engineers are not oblivious about their markets. You give them so little credit, I'm surprised you trust them with your life. Ironic really. You are correct BMW is not overly interested in the towing market. If they were, they would offer a towing package with detuned handling performance to improve towing stability along with rigid hitches. It would not be difficult, but it would contradict the brand image.

[bono]

This is already ridiculous. If you refer to my options, please repeat what I said at minimum. I think that towing above 65 mph is crazy. I would not do this in any truck, which handling and braking is... poor to say at least.

I towed even over 70 mph, but this was result of not looking at speedometer. Everything was fine, very stable, I was not loosing control, etc. Since then I am just using cruise control at 60 mph.