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Old 06-01-2020, 07:18 AM   #41
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2019 Nest
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Tekonsha Prodigy not pairing w 2020 X5

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Originally Posted by RickyV View Post
Today I test drove towing my 2019 AS Nest w/ my 8-day-young 2020 BMW X5, and it was great! Felt like the wheels hugged the road, and the body stayed firm and stable over bumps. It accelerated up hill from a stop with no problem. The only issue was not with the BMW but the Tekonsha Prodigy wireless brake controller. I could not get it to pair, despite using my IT troubleshooting skills. Plan B is to use manual downshifting to engine break on downgrades. But I’d prefer to fix the break controller before our camping trip this Friday. Any suggestions?
I just got off the phone with Al from Tekonsha (800-632-3290), and will be giving his suggestion a try later today. He said that “European cars are finicky with their trailer electronics”. Basically I have to tape over the “5-o-clock” male prong in the BMW 7pin outlet before attempting to pair with the Tekonsha handheld transmitter.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:01 AM   #42
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Insurance thoughts

When we were looking for a tow vehicle for our 30' bunk model, we also looked at the German suvs. Our only warning to you would be to check with your dealer about voiding the warranty if you tow a trailer that exceeds the tow limit set by the manufacturer. CanAm will tell you that your vehicle, when set up properly, is capable of towing more than the manufacturer's tow limit, and while that might be true, we were also told by dealers that we would void our vehicle warranty.
So it's just something to keep in mind. We settled on a 2016 Ford Expedition platinum with the tow package. While we are not normally 'Ford people', the vehicle comfortably tows our airstream and we are quite happy with it.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:41 AM   #43
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Sure, they can void the warranty, if you do something that exceeds the specs. However, this would be applicable only to the parts that failed because you exceeded the specs. As an example, they won't be able to void your warranty on headlamps, because you towed 500 lbs above towing specs.

Another thing is how they would know that you towed above the specs. Would you show up at the dealer with the trailer attached?
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:46 AM   #44
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Do you have the LED trailer light module between the controller and the BMW? I'd give this a shot first:

https://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Tow-Ready/20142.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyV View Post
I just got off the phone with Al from Tekonsha (800-632-3290), and will be giving his suggestion a try later today. He said that “European cars are finicky with their trailer electronics”. Basically I have to tape over the “5-o-clock” male prong in the BMW 7pin outlet before attempting to pair with the Tekonsha handheld transmitter.
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:47 AM   #45
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What hitch are you using? Is it modified OE?

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Sure, they can void the warranty, if you do something that exceeds the specs. However, this would be applicable only to the parts that failed because you exceeded the specs. As an example, they won't be able to void your warranty on headlamps, because you towed 500 lbs above towing specs.

Another thing is how they would know that you towed above the specs. Would you show up at the dealer with the trailer attached?
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:24 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by bono View Post
Sure, they can void the warranty, if you do something that exceeds the specs. However, this would be applicable only to the parts that failed because you exceeded the specs. As an example, they won't be able to void your warranty on headlamps, because you towed 500 lbs above towing specs.

Another thing is how they would know that you towed above the specs. Would you show up at the dealer with the trailer attached?
The vehicles record in their diagnostic system all of the variables at any given moment including a trailer being attached. Exceeding specs are more likely to effect things like the transmission, suspension, cooling system, wheels - all of the high dollar components of a vehicle. I have said it repeatedly - you can modify a vehicle any which way you want. When the music stops, and in the event of a incident of some sort, the insurers all look for the weakest link. First up - the custom mods on the tow vehicle and of course, the drivers inquiry into places like this forum - all things that places the accountability square in the driver / owners lap.

At the end of the day, rooting people on to do things when you have zero skin in the game is wrong. Tow limits are in place for a reason. Weight stickers are in place for a reason. Don't be that person who tries to rationalize a clever way to circumvent.
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:25 AM   #47
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Modified OE. Can Am kind of reinforcement.

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Originally Posted by WhereItsAt View Post
What hitch are you using? Is it modified OE?
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:28 AM   #48
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Do you have any experience with warranties or insurance claims or just sharing your thoughts about it? I assume that latter.

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Originally Posted by jwpaquette View Post
The vehicles record in their diagnostic system all of the variables at any given moment including a trailer being attached. Exceeding specs are more likely to effect things like the transmission, suspension, cooling system, wheels - all of the high dollar components of a vehicle. I have said it repeatedly - you can modify a vehicle any which way you want. When the music stops, and in the event of a incident of some sort, the insurers all look for the weakest link. First up - the custom mods on the tow vehicle and of course, the drivers inquiry into places like this forum - all things that places the accountability square in the driver / owners lap.

At the end of the day, rooting people on to do things when you have zero skin in the game is wrong. Tow limits are in place for a reason. Weight stickers are in place for a reason. Don't be that person who tries to rationalize a clever way to circumvent.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:37 AM   #49
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Tekonsha RF 90250 Pairing w/ 2020 BMW X5

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyV View Post
I just got off the phone with Al from Tekonsha (800-632-3290), and will be giving his suggestion a try later today. He said that “European cars are finicky with their trailer electronics”. Basically I have to tape over the “5-o-clock” male prong in the BMW 7pin outlet before attempting to pair with the Tekonsha handheld transmitter.
I’m posting the process that worked. Note: the process is DIFFERENT from the process in the instructions that come with the product. It took me 2 hours of back and forth calls, 8 failed attempts, and 3 days to get this right. Hopefully this will be helpful to others and save them the headache I experienced.

Pairing your Tekonsha RF 90250 brake controller with your 2020 BMW X5.

1. Tape over 5 o’clock prong (aka brake) in the Prodigy Power Module (not the vehicle)
2. Plug trailer into Prodigy Power Module
3. Plug the Power Module cable into the 2020 X5
4. Start the X5s engine.
5. Plug the Remote Hand Held Unit into an auxiliary power source. Expected result: Flashing n.c.
6. Turn the Power Knob to minimum position. Expected result: Flashing n.c.
7. Fully depress and hold both the MANUAL OVERRIDE and BOOST BUTTON. The display will start from P.5 and end at P.A. Once P.A has been achieved, release the Manual and Boost buttons.
8. Press and hold the brake pedal (within 1 second!). Expected result: after a few seconds, the display will show a flashing 0.0. for a correct pairing. (Within a few seconds, but no longer than 90 seconds at which point flashing n.c. returns.)
9. Set the Power Knob to greater than minimum. Expected result: Display stops flashing 0.0, and now flashes n.c. (not connected).
10. Unplug the trailer, take tape off, re-plug the trailer. Expected result: Display will show c for connected.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:15 PM   #50
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Thanks for posting this! I did not have problems with pairing, even though I heard that some E70 owner experienced the problem. Another solution I heard about was to pair the controller using e.g. an American car and then use it on a German SUV.
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airstream 69 View Post
When we were looking for a tow vehicle for our 30' bunk model, we also looked at the German suvs. Our only warning to you would be to check with your dealer about voiding the warranty if you tow a trailer that exceeds the tow limit set by the manufacturer. CanAm will tell you that your vehicle, when set up properly, is capable of towing more than the manufacturer's tow limit, and while that might be true, we were also told by dealers that we would void our vehicle warranty.
So it's just something to keep in mind. We settled on a 2016 Ford Expedition platinum with the tow package. While we are not normally 'Ford people', the vehicle comfortably tows our airstream and we are quite happy with it.

Great point!

Any Automotive or mechanical engineer can truthfully tell you a vehicle when set up properly, is capable of towing nearly any size trailer because they know that if you drive slowly enough any competent vehicle will do the job. The further out of spec you are the more you have to slow down to be safe. It is deception. It is what people like bono do to claim their overloaded European SUV's tow 33'. They just don't mention the the speed they tow and that they have been fortunate to have not encountered an emergency so they don't know the practical safe limits.

The question one must ask is can my vehicle with my trailer safely execute a 0.6 g evasive maneuver at 65 mph without oversteer? Bono's X5 with a 33' trailer can't. Another question, Can I take this setup on say I-80 in California up the 40 mile 5-6% grade at 55mph in 100 degree weather without overheating the engine, transmission, differential, or down it without overheating the brakes?

As you indicate though, the manufacturers see it more in terms of liability risk and actuarial tables so they avoid the debate and simply void the warranty when the risk gets too high. People in denial about the real limits of their vehicle have a just so story for this reality also.
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:58 PM   #52
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Some people believe that a bigger car is better because it is bigger. This is purely naive thinking. BMW X5 will outhandle any truck on the market. Any. Try to do any emergency maneuver in a truck. Good luck Do you really want to compare primitive suspension in a truck to independent suspension in German SUV?

Braking? You are kidding, right? Do you really want to compare sedan brakes in trucks to effective brakes in German SUV, which are designed to stop the car on autobahn from 155 mph many times over and over again?

I know I-80 well as I am in Tahoe a couple times per year. Sometimes temperature was up to 105F. No problem, I arrived to my destination. I also towed the trailer through Rockies in 110F. The car survived. Last year I towed the trailer to Shaver Lake - 8 miles of 8 grade road (up to 14%). 105F heat. No problem, I arrived to the destination.

Spreading FUD about warranties and insurance does not good for anyone.

If you tow 5th wheel or you are taking a lot of stuff to the campground, you do not have a choice and need to use truck, unfortunately. For people like me, who travel fairly light and appreciate a good handling, there are better choices.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:30 PM   #53
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Of course a BMW X5 will out handle any large vehicle on the market, it is designed to do just that and if it didn't, it would be a failure. But a vehicle that handles superbly when unburdened does not do so well when pulling large heavy loads. The engineers would not design trucks the way they do if they didn't have to. It is not possible to engineer something to excel at both. Anyone who believes a light, short wheel base sportster can out muscle 7500 lbs of trailer in a .6 g corner at 65 is a fool. And of course even bono admits as much, if he believed otherwise, he'd proudly brag about powering through the Wyoming or Montana Rockies at 80 mph.

Bono, you talk about surviving, but you don't mention the speeds required to do so. My setup doesn't just survive, it thrives, because it is in its element. It can't compete unburdened, because it is not designed for that, but put 1400 pounds in it and another 7300 pounds behind it and it excels. I didn't have to take my rig to Can Am to shore it up, I don't have to add welds or braces. I don't have to worry about overloading it, or overheating it. I don't have to drive well under posted speed limits to be safe.

All this to say, If you're the kind of person that foolishly thinks a superb handling unburdened SUV makes a great heavy hauler, you are indeed a fool.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:38 PM   #54
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You are fool, if you think that a vehicle which handles poor solo, would suddenly handle great with a trailer attached. You are also fool if you think that a truck was designed for towing. If there was a perfect vehicle designed for towing (yet to be designed), SUV would be closer to ultimate towing machine than a truck.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:19 AM   #55
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:19 AM   #56
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Quote:
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My setup doesn't just survive, it thrives, because it is in its element. It can't compete unburdened, because it is not designed for that, but put 1400 pounds in it and another 7300 pounds behind it and it excels. I didn't have to take my rig to Can Am to shore it up, I don't have to add welds or braces. I don't have to worry about overloading it, or overheating it. I don't have to drive well under posted speed limits to be safe.
And my TV fits my style of camping enjoyment. I do carry cooking gear a good amount including assorted CI skillets and at least two DO's, pop up shelters, folding table, a good amount of tools even a 40" X 3/4" drive breaker bar and socket in case someones hitch ball is loose. And hand tools for the unforeseen AS or TV or a camping buddies repair.

And at 15 years old and over 200K my TV just keeps looking better and better to me. Memorial weekend we did a short trip no hills but it just yawns at interstate cruising speed as the tach on that 5.9L Cummins is at about 1900-2000 RPM and over 17K gross. Yup, a 30' Slide Out is heavier than any other 30' AS AFAIK. And it pulls the with ease the toughest grade I run into around here I-77 NB from NC to VA Fancy Gap as many know it.

And by no advance knowledge by myself at AS purchase, my rig came with 4 piston Dexter disc brakes. Talk about stopping power.

Carry on.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:45 AM   #57
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You are fool, if you think that a vehicle which handles poor solo, would suddenly handle great with a trailer attached.
Circle where I said this. No vehicle handles great with 1400 lb of payload and towing a 7500 lb trailer. Some vehicles are in their element though and are able to effortlessly, competently and safely travel modern US highways at posted speeds without over stressing the vehicle, or impeding others. These vehicles don't suddenly acquire the nibble crisp feel of a performance touring vehicle. They do however hold the road in hard cornering, and don't get pushed or pulled around by trailer inertia, the wind or commercial truck slip streams for the full range of US road speeds.

I'm not just some novice with uninformed opinions, bragging on my favored set-up. I know when my set-up is a poor fit and when it is a good fit. I have the training, skills and experience in the physics and math of mechanics, kinematics, suspension and control systems to know how various setups respond to static and dynamic loads so I understand what happens when you take a vehicle out of its design limits.

In the case of performance touring SUV's. They are comfortable, and sure when not towing. It retains its base characteristics when you add payload and a trailer just like a truck which remains a bit clumsy and unrefined. The steering remains crisp and the ride remains mostly comfortable. The feel becomes deceptive because the engineering capability is not measured by passenger "feel" , rather it is measured by the vehicles ability to control and manage the trailer, load and variable dynamic forces including wind and road conditions. In the specific case of the BMW X5, the steering and suspension is optimized for light loads so its design window is relatively narrow compared to similar vehicles. When towing more than about 6800 lbs at US highway speeds (65mph is most common), the trailer has too much influence on handling response and it will experience oversteer in hard cornering, the most common root cause of trailer involve accidents. It also is not able to control trailer sway without significant support from expensive passive hitches like a Hensley type hitch. It's not a coincidence bono uses a ProPride. The only practical remedy for an X5 hauling 7000+ lbs is to travel at lower than posted speeds, which, not coincidentally, bono practices. He reports that it would be crazy for him to tow at 65mph.

As a contrast, the Porsche Cayenne for example is designed to be vastly more versatile with respect to combined cargo and trailer loads up to about 8600 lbs and I wouldn't be having this argument if the Cayenne were the topic.

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You are also fool if you think that a truck was designed for towing. If there was a perfect vehicle designed for towing (yet to be designed), SUV would be closer to ultimate towing machine than a truck.
Again, this is not a claim I make. Pickup trucks are multi purpose vehicles designed to accommodate the most common hauling tasks. Most owners who haul trailers require a vehicle which can carry bulky and heavy items plus a medium to large trailer. For them a pickup is ideal and by this measure the perfect match for their requirements. If more capacity is desired, the owner will switch to a fifth wheel and once again a multipurpose truck is ideal. The ideal trailer hauler does not exist because they are impractical and not many people want one. The SUV is a fantastic choice for small to medium trailers when the owner also wants the vehicle to double as a daily driver and is willing to compromise on payload and trailer size.

As much as some people want to practice self-deception, unfortunately for them, there is no free lunch, and you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:10 AM   #58
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Any chance you can share what was done? Pictures?
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Modified OE. Can Am kind of reinforcement.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:41 AM   #59
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I think this is a great take on the subject. Having owned a one ton van and Truck and half ton truck along with X5's I have good experience for comparison. The F350 and E350 were great at towing large, heavy trailers. Honestly, the E350 was the best all purpose vehicle I've ever owned. It towed a 30' enclosed trailer (carrying a "Jeep") all over the country along with all of our gear, spares and family stuff supremely well.

I don't expect our new X5 to tow like that, however, it should tow well up to it's spec's. Which aren't far off of a 10 YO Half ton. My only gripe is that BMW chose to mislead towing capability by advertising 7,200 trailer max but with a 551 pound tongue weight limit. That's absurd. I've towed an unbalanced trailer and experienced the death wobble. It only takes once to learn the lesson that tongue weight is important.

I also want to mention that I have NHTSA, DOT and EPA experience in getting Class 8 chassis' passed for use and sale in the USA. Everything is engineered for a purpose (or many purposes). My BMW isn't capable of towing a 30' AS. The tongue weight alone far exceeds the limit. But it certainly should be able to tow the 25/26' models - except for the freaking tongue limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
Circle where I said this. No vehicle handles great with 1400 lb of payload and towing a 7500 lb trailer. Some vehicles are in their element though and are able to effortlessly, competently and safely travel modern US highways at posted speeds without over stressing the vehicle, or impeding others. These vehicles don't suddenly acquire the nibble crisp feel of a performance touring vehicle. They do however hold the road in hard cornering, and don't get pushed or pulled around by trailer inertia, the wind or commercial truck slip streams for the full range of US road speeds.

I'm not just some novice with uninformed opinions, bragging on my favored set-up. I know when my set-up is a poor fit and when it is a good fit. I have the training, skills and experience in the physics and math of mechanics, kinematics, suspension and control systems to know how various setups respond to static and dynamic loads so I understand what happens when you take a vehicle out of its design limits.

In the case of performance touring SUV's. They are comfortable, and sure when not towing. It retains its base characteristics when you add payload and a trailer just like a truck which remains a bit clumsy and unrefined. The steering remains crisp and the ride remains mostly comfortable. The feel becomes deceptive because the engineering capability is not measured by passenger "feel" , rather it is measured by the vehicles ability to control and manage the trailer, load and variable dynamic forces including wind and road conditions. In the specific case of the BMW X5, the steering and suspension is optimized for light loads so its design window is relatively narrow compared to similar vehicles. When towing more than about 6800 lbs at US highway speeds (65mph is most common), the trailer has too much influence on handling response and it will experience oversteer in hard cornering, the most common root cause of trailer involve accidents. It also is not able to control trailer sway without significant support from expensive passive hitches like a Hensley type hitch. It's not a coincidence bono uses a ProPride. The only practical remedy for an X5 hauling 7000+ lbs is to travel at lower than posted speeds, which, not coincidentally, bono practices. He reports that it would be crazy for him to tow at 65mph.

As a contrast, the Porsche Cayenne for example is designed to be vastly more versatile with respect to combined cargo and trailer loads up to about 8600 lbs and I wouldn't be having this argument if the Cayenne were the topic.



Again, this is not a claim I make. Pickup trucks are multi purpose vehicles designed to accommodate the most common hauling tasks. Most owners who haul trailers require a vehicle which can carry bulky and heavy items plus a medium to large trailer. For them a pickup is ideal and by this measure the perfect match for their requirements. If more capacity is desired, the owner will switch to a fifth wheel and once again a multipurpose truck is ideal. The ideal trailer hauler does not exist because they are impractical and not many people want one. The SUV is a fantastic choice for small to medium trailers when the owner also wants the vehicle to double as a daily driver and is willing to compromise on payload and trailer size.

As much as some people want to practice self-deception, unfortunately for them, there is no free lunch, and you can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:51 AM   #60
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Circle where I said this. (...)
What about reading your own posts where you are bragging about truck being capable of evasive maneuvers?

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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
(...) He reports that it would be crazy for him to tow at 65mph.
Yes, it is crazy to tow ABOVE 65 mph with a truck. Primitive suspension, high center of gravity, poor handling, poor brakes are some of the reasons I would mention. This is a very subjective number. I would say that in some cases, people should not tow more than 50 mph - trucks with lifted suspension, hitch not dialed in, towing 8k+ lbs toy hauler.

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As a contrast, the Porsche Cayenne for example is designed to be vastly more versatile with respect to combined cargo and trailer loads up to about 8600 lbs and I wouldn't be having this argument if the Cayenne were the topic.
How would you even compare BMW X5 vs. Cayenne? There are so many variances within one model (different suspension, different wheels, etc.). Each of this component matters.

Let me guess. Your model?
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