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Old 03-24-2019, 09:55 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Five bikes may not weigh that much compared to the weight of the trailer. Let's say they weigh an average of 30 lbs. each, thus 150 lbs. total. Lets guess the trailer was fairly full and weighed 7,000 lbs. The bikes weigh 2% of the total weight. Even if the trailer was empty and the bikes weighed 40 lbs., the percent isn't that different.

However, I don't know how full the trailer was, how much the bikes weigh and how to calculate the lateral force of the bike weight at the rear of the trailer. That's only part of the analysis. Where are the engineers who understand this?

When we bought our trailers, the hitches had not been set up correctly. Our first was an Equalizer. I think it is a very good hitch, but the dealer didn't care to spend the time to adjust it. Once I did so, it worked a lot better. Our second one did not have enough tension on it when we left the dealer. I experimented and increased the tension substantially and it tows a lot better. I can't remember the name and it is not stamped on it, so I'm guessing it is a Blue Ox. Blue Ox has a pretty good reputation. I think the Equalizer is a better hitch, but it does take some work and a lot of thinking to get it adjusted right if you've never done it before. The hitch is the first place I would look for problems. A suspension shop may be the place to go to get advice on the hitch.

What started the sway that result in a 180? Wind, slippery road, operator error? Are the tires inflated enough? Are the trailer brakes working? What did you do to stop it? Immediately speeding up is one way to straighten a trailer in some circumstances, slowing down gradually is another. Standing on the brakes may aggravate the forces causing sway. Hard braking is the usual response. The skid marks indicate hard braking. It may slow the lateral forces, but not change them. I think once the trailer has rotated enough for the driver to notice, it could be too late to stop the lateral force.

Looking at the photos, it seems you went into the median. Lucky not to turn over and did you cross over to the opposing lanes? The far embankment looks fairly steep.
What's important for stopping sway is the moment of inertia of the trailer pivoting out of control around its axle. The moment of inertia is calculated by multiplying a load by the square of its distance from the center of rotation. So the worst place to put a load is as far from the axle as possible. That said, if you calculate the moment of inertia of the bicycles hanging off the back of the bumper you will see that it has very little effect when compared to the moment of inertia of the much heavier trailer itself.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:19 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
What's important for stopping sway is the moment of inertia of the trailer pivoting out of control around its axle. The moment of inertia is calculated by multiplying a load by the square of its distance from the center of rotation. So the worst place to put a load is as far from the axle as possible. That said, if you calculate the moment of inertia of the bicycles hanging off the back of the bumper you will see that it has very little effect when compared to the moment of inertia of the much heavier trailer itself.
Thanks for explaining it better than me. It must have been those two months in college as an engineering major before I realized the advantage of liberal arts that gave me an inkling of some of the answer.
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:23 AM   #103
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Thank you Kevin for your detailed suggestions for newcomers to consider about their towing setup.

[click on the orange arrow in the quote to go directly to the entire Post #2]
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander64 View Post
. . .
The following questions typically need to be answered about your tow vehicle prior to towing:
  • Does your tow vehicle have adequate capacity to tow the coach that you plan to purchase?
    • If this is an unknown, first check your owner’s manual for towing recommendations.
    • <snip>
  • Good luck with your investigation!
  • Kevin
This entire 2009 Post #2 is worth a good read by everyone . . . it covers a lot of valuable ground IMO. [click on orange arrow in quote to go directly there]

Happy Trails,

Peter
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Old 10-09-2021, 10:39 PM   #104
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Expedition

I have a 2014 Expedition EL with a tow package rated to tow 9100llbs. I regularly tow a dual axle utility trailer about the same size as the FC 23 CB I have ordered. It’s about 4000 llbs. The AS is about 5000 llbs. Do I need a weight distribution hitch? I kinda hate them.
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Old 10-10-2021, 07:10 AM   #105
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Why do you hate them? Is it the setup time and associated effort? You certainly could tow without one, but your experience will be safer and more comfortable if you do use one. Personally, I feel that the minor inconvenience of setting up the hitch is worth the benefits that it adds.
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Old 10-10-2021, 07:19 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by spinter View Post
I have a 2014 Expedition EL with a tow package rated to tow 9100llbs. I regularly tow a dual axle utility trailer about the same size as the FC 23 CB I have ordered. It’s about 4000 llbs. The AS is about 5000 llbs. Do I need a weight distribution hitch? I kinda hate them.
Measure the distance from the ground to the top of the front wheel well before hooking up your FC 23 CB. Hook up the trailer, raise the tongue jack, and measure that same distance again. If it is raised by more than 1/2 inch, you NEED a WD system. Otherwise, you may have squirrely steering because not enough weight is left on the front wheels to ensure they grip the road properly.
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:20 AM   #107
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Weight distribution hitch

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinter View Post
Do I need a weight distribution hitch? I kinda hate them.

It's possible to get lost in all the alphabet of different specifications. My understanding is that whether or not you need a weight distribution hitch depends strictly on the hitch weight ... plus whatever safety cushion you want. Someone above said that on their F150 with a 25' Airstream, they were at the edge of capacity for hitch weight. That's not my reading of the specs, but it may be a difference in years of the F150s or what our risk tolerance is.



I've towed all of my boats without a WDH, as well as a camping trailer. Starting with my 22 Airstream, and now with my 25, I've had weight distribution hitches for the last nearly 10 years. I didn't know that I had the luxury to hate them: the experts said I needed them, so I got them and used them. It's second nature now. It's like dumping the tanks: at first it's a PITA. It becomes second nature and no big deal.



If you need it--based on the hitch weight--get it.
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Old 10-10-2021, 04:22 PM   #108
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A weight distribution hitch also provides sway control. I have seen plenty of trailers without a WD hitch with the front end of the tow vehicle up high and the trailer swaying behind. Eventually your luck runs out. Have a WD hitch set up by a suspension shop—they know more than dealers. Ask them to teach you how to adjust it so you can changes thing on the road.
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:04 PM   #109
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Yes. It’s the setup. I had the chain style one once and I it was time consuming and strenuous.
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:30 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by spinter View Post
Yes. It’s the setup. I had the chain style one once and I it was time consuming and strenuous.
I have had two versions—the Equalizer (no chains) and another brand with a bar and a chain on each side. I can't remember the second one, possibly Blue Ox. I got the second one because the hitch head was a little lighter and my muscles get smaller as my age gets bigger. The Equalizer was much more challenging to adjust with at least three different adjustments. The second one has two—height of the ball and how many links in the chain you take up. My take on that was to get the chain as tight as you can by taking up as many links as you can.

Once adjusted, the Equalizer was easier to use and was a very good sway control and weight adjusting hitch. I can do the second one pretty fast now, but Barb doesn't like it. She used to do one side and I did the other. Now I do both sides. The bars or chains have to be installed and removed with some brute strength—raising the jack always makes it easier. I suppose if I can't do that, I could use a breaker bar on the wrench and multiply my diminished strength several times. The comparison isn't exact because I have used these hitches on two very different trailers. I thought of looking for a used Equalizer, but shipping would probably be quite expensive and after ordered two hearing aids, needing new tires on the SUV and needing a new laptop (this one needs a new keyboard, not worth replacing on an old machine; now I have to hit "a" very, very hard), I am adverse to spending more money.

Equalizer phone help was very good explaining how to adjust it. It is not very intuitive. The dealer couldn't have credit less about adjustments. I ended up spending the time to adjust it properly. But a good suspension shop could do it.

I also considered the ProPride. It appears to be the best one available, but is expensive. For our limited trips these days it doesn't seem necessary though.
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Old 10-06-2022, 09:53 AM   #111
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Question airstream complete newbie question about towing

Hello -
I am about to purchase a used globetrotter 23 ft - our tow vehicle is a 2020 porsche cayenne with a tow capacity of 7700 and hitch weight capacity of 770. The payload is 1400 - just me and my husband. The GT 23 has a GVWR 6000 and hitch weight of 525. We were thinking of an Equalizer hitch or a Blue ox because they seem relatively easy to use and we can get them from Airstream. Any thoughts are appreciated!!!
Thank you.
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Old 10-06-2022, 02:38 PM   #112
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The hitch weight of a trailer with a GVWR of 6000# is somewhere around 700# to 900#. Add to that about 100# for the WD hitch. You are over the max hitch weight capacity. With a hitch weight capacity of 770#, I would want a trailer with a GVWR no larger than 5000#. MAX! (Airstream is FAMOUS for understating their hitch weights in the sales brochure.)
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Old 10-06-2022, 02:42 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by charlah View Post
Hello -
I am about to purchase a used globetrotter 23 ft - our tow vehicle is a 2020 porsche cayenne with a tow capacity of 7700 and hitch weight capacity of 770. The payload is 1400 - just me and my husband. The GT 23 has a GVWR 6000 and hitch weight of 525. We were thinking of an Equalizer hitch or a Blue ox because they seem relatively easy to use and we can get them from Airstream. Any thoughts are appreciated!!!
Thank you.

Lots of folks tow with that vehicle and it does a great job. It will have no trouble handling a 23’ AS.
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Old 10-06-2022, 03:03 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by charlah View Post
Hello -
I am about to purchase a used globetrotter 23 ft - our tow vehicle is a 2020 porsche cayenne with a tow capacity of 7700 and hitch weight capacity of 770. The payload is 1400 - just me and my husband. The GT 23 has a GVWR 6000 and hitch weight of 525. We were thinking of an Equalizer hitch or a Blue ox because they seem relatively easy to use and we can get them from Airstream. Any thoughts are appreciated!!!
Thank you.
Hi charlah, there is a huge thread on towing with Cayenne's, Q5's, Q7's, Tuareg's and there various sisters and brothers (most of these share the exact same vehicle platforms). I don't have the link handy, just search the forums and you will find it.

You will find that even though the vehicle structure and hitch didn't change across the years since these vehicles were first introduced, the spec's on the hitch sticker varied considerably based on whether or not you got the EU version of the sticker (limited by Germany/EU taxation and towing laws) or the USA version of the sticker and which law was in place at the time of manufacture.

The correct hitch/tow spec's for these vehicles are:

772 lbs for a dead weight tow scenario (i.e. not using a WD hitch)
1157 lbs when using a WD hitch.

The stickers on the hitch have ranged as low as 660lbs for both dead weight and WD tow scenarios, all the way up to 1157lbs for a WD scenario. And these are for the exact same vehicle frame/subframe/receiver, with no significant changes.

I have a 2016 Cayenne S and I'm towing a 27ft Globetrotter 27FB Twin using an Eaz-lift Elite 1000 WD hitch (i.e. it uses 1000lb bars, you might be able to use smaller bars with a 23ft trailer). The vehicle, hitch, and trailer combination works great. No issues with power, braking, or stability.

Check out CanAmRv Airstream dealer in Ontario, Canada. They have spent decades testing tow vehicle + trailer combinations and have extensive expertise. They set up my tow configuration for my airstream and when I was in Ontario and had a chance to visit Andy, he mentioned that they have setup well over 600 Cayennes and their Toureg/Q7 cousins. No one has report any significant problems since 2006 when these vehicles were first introduced into the market.

Admittedly, there is less cargo capacity in terms of GVWR and GAWR limits in these vehicles when towing larger Airstreams, but with some care and consideration when loading the trailer you can stay within the tow vehicle limits and can tow 25, 27 ft airstreams successfully. With a 23ft Airstream, you will not have any problems beyond just paying attention to how much weight you put in the trailer and where you place the loads inside the trailer (and you should do that with any tow vehicle + trailer combination anyway :-)).
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Old 10-07-2022, 09:22 AM   #115
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Thank you for all the replies! I was just concerned because when I called Porsche they told me the "hitch draw capacity is 308 lbs" and I do not know what that means. this is a great community! We are going tomorrow to the airstream dealer and will hopefully be back in the community. Thank you
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