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Old 03-24-2021, 09:41 AM   #61
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2019 27' Globetrotter
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I am no expert but I do have the Platinum because of the difference in payload. My research at the time said it was not just the tires but the wheels that made the difference. Suspension is identical. One suggestion, if you are concerned, swap wheels and tires, I am sure you'd find a decent set cheap from people who don't tow and went the other way (larger tires). Payload aside, I think you'd find the ride a lot more comfortable when towing. And to be clear, the F150 pulls our 27FB GT just fine, up, down and sideways wind.
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Old 03-24-2021, 09:44 AM   #62
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Your fears a valid on the Limited

I brought home a 2021 Platinum this week with the heavy-duty tow package, crew, 5.5', and 4x4. I planned to purchase the Limited. The heavy-duty tow option is not available on the Limited. The reason given was the wheels.
I added the options to bring the Platinum up close to the Limited and the added weight impact on capacity would support your suspicion.
I had a similar experience with a 2016 Lexus LX going to a 2019 Lanc Cruiser. They are made in the same factory with almost all the same parts. The trailer tow rating was 7k vs 8.1k respectively. The difference was the wheels and the suspension system (adjustable on the Lexus). I thought I was getting 1.1k of tow capacity. NO.
The Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) only gave me another 100 lbs in total load. It really did not help in my overall capacity pulling a 27 ft Airstream.
MY F-150 does not have much more vehicle weight capacity than the Land Crusier (Tundra base). What I gain is the increased GCWR for more trailer weight. With the PowerBoost, I gained more torque and the 7.1 kw generator.
It feels like a shell game trying to figure it out. Then National RV Safety Board estimates the 50% of the RV's are running out of spec. I don't want to be one of those - but it is hard to figure out.
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Old 03-24-2021, 09:55 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
The part you left out of my original message was I WAS NOT making a 1/2 ton into a 3/4 ton.. But you brought up a interesting point. In saying the springs are not the limiting factor makes me think you do know what limits a half ton. Tires? Frame? The number of lugs on the wheels, etc.?
My original point was if you can transform a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton with a leaf spring, then why canít you ďIMPROVEĒ a 1/2 ton with a rear spring? Just looking for insight.
Hi

Indeed you can transform a F-250 into an F-350. The sticker on my F250 is just over 2,900 pounds payload. The sticker on an identically equipped F350 is something like 3,100 pounds. The most obvious change is the spring. It would take a *lot* of work to prove there aren't other changes here or there.

In this case the biggest reason is that the F-250 body / frame is the same as the F-350. They are cheaper to build if you do them both the same. You get "more frame" on a F-250 than you "need". Because there is a lot to building the body and frame, this is not terribly surprising. Ford has been doing this for a *long* time.

The F-150 is not same / same as an F-250. The F-450 is very much not same / same as a F-350. The whole "cheaper to build" thing only stretches just so far.

No matter what brand you buy, you very much need to read the fine print associated with the door sticker. Do people weight 150 pounds or 125 pounds? Does this vehicle seat 6? ( hint: count the seat belts ....).

There is no magic "breaks here" sort of thing on these trucks. Overload them and they wear out faster. They also will be less fun to drive. Go way over and you bottom this or that out, damage may result. You can indeed stuff a vehicle with more weight than the sticker says and complete a nice long trip. You see folks doing it all the time. You also see them broken down by the side of the road. You also hear about them loosing control in this or that odd situation .....

Always go with the door sticker numbers. Anything else you see applies to who knows what vehicle, possibly on another planet . If you have *any* doubts about how you are loaded, a run through the CAT scale is dirt cheap. Knowing your numbers is *much* better than guessing your numbers.

Loaded at this or that level, there is no guarantee that this or that combination of trailer and TV will be reasonably stable / functional. Moving weight around often is part of "tuning" a rig. You may move actual objects, you may play with WD settings. Being right up against a wall on day one sorta gets in the way of doing this.

If you are doing this as part of a shopping process, start out with 80% of the stated limits. That leaves some room for a surprise on the door jamb. It also leaves room for a lot of fiddling down the road. If you can find actual door post numbers on the model you are after, great. Still plug in 80% .....

Bob
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:18 AM   #64
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Axle weight and frame design

these trucks are engineered to carry and tow stuff. the F150s have a 7000# frame and the combined axle rating of 7325#
The F250/350 have higher ratings for both frames and axles.
the F150 is designed/engineered to pull a combined weight of 16-18,000# or more, but the issue is the rear axle rating, 3825# making the way you load the truck and trailer more critical. if you can distribute the weight off the rear axle to the trailer and front truck axle, you are fine.
Most WD hitches are designed to throw 30% to the truck front axle and 30% to the trailer, removing 60% of the trailer tongue weight. which makes it all good for most 27' AS and smaller for the majority of us that don't carry BBQ and smokers every time we leave the house.
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:44 AM   #65
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All in what you need to bring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair_Enough View Post
I apologize to the OP for us hijacking the thread. I won't keep this going.

Safely towing is based on more than the hard numbers. Weather and road conditions vary as well as your skills and peace of mind when flying down the road with lots of expensive stuff and precious cargo that you could never replace, if you know what I mean, it all factors in. Speed absolutely is a concern.

The short answer is you can tow 7600# if you don't exceed any of the limits: Trailer towing, the truck's GVWR, Front GAWR, Rear GAWR, and GCWR. Assuming wheels and tires are of equal or better capacities that what it came with.

Let me give you an example. And, this is based on CAT scale weights and my white and yellow stickers. I actually find Ford's information adequate and well documented.

GVWR of this truck is 6900#

Actual scale weight, with WDH disconnected (in the truck bed) including tongue weight of the 23FB trailer came out to 6840#. That's only 60# below 6900#, but with WDH my margin is 140#. I have added Stable Loads to reduce squat and it tows great.

So, the trailer's tongue weight is 580#. TWR is 10%.

Truck was 5680# without trailer, but the nearly 160# Hensley hitch was in the bed. Conclusion, I am under the limit and okay.

The trailer GVWR is 6000# and my actual scale weight for it with full propane and full fresh water tank 5800#... again under the limit...

... well under GAWR limits with or without WDH...
... well below the maximum trailer weight of 10,700#...
...well below the GCWR of 15,500#.

You see I am very close to my GVWR and it is the first indice I would exceed if I went to a larger trailer. What I could do about that is 1) redistribute loading towards the rear of trailer, which isn't easy, not to mention I am right at 10% TWR now, or 2) carry less; especially carry less fresh water. I could reduce the size and volume of the propane tanks. Things that would reduce trailer weight but would also lower TWR.

Bottom line, somewhere around a 7000# trailer I could enter unsafe territory and exceed the trucks GVW and this for a truck that is rated to pull 10,700#.

I think you can see that there is no way Ford could tell me to limit the trailer to 6500 - 7500#. I had to weigh it and calculate it for myself.

I hope this helps.
FE

I pulled my FC23FB with an 2002 Range Rover - total trailer weight 5050#, total truck weight 6050#, both well under the limits, Blue Ox WD hitch.
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:52 AM   #66
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Getting a bit dizzy here, but I think the original Q has been addressed (My question: When comparing a fully loaded F150 Platinum, 5.5 bed, 3.5 ecoboost, Panoramic... mirror image of my Limited other than wheels/tires. Why is the Platinum's payload 200-250 lbs. greater than the Limited.) Relates to different eq. on different vehicles.



But the larger issues raised to me are these; 1) How much can I legally tow with a 1/2 ton, and 2) how much can a safely tow with a 1/2 ton - both assuming I've done the calculations.


Legally - anything under the door sticker calculations - right? My question here are these. Should something happen where I need insurance, what is my defense? Do I get a CAT document of my weights for each trip and keep that with me for such an event? (how do you prove you did your homework for this?)


Personal Safety - That depends on your safety comfort zone I guess. I stopped paying higher and higher costs to keep the 1-ton diesel since my trailering habits have changed and I went to the 1/2 ton for my more casual trailering. I am within my door stats even with my 29' trailer when I load correctly and use the appropriate gear (so if I have the CAT data - legally I'm good - right). But am I comfortable towing with my experience (lotsa heavy trailering) when it comes to safety for myself and others on the road (considering all the various road conditions one can encounter)? I agree, bigger is better - no doubt. Cost vs risk (legal handled) does factor in since the 1/2 tons are capable to handle a particular set up - But am I willing to take all precautions and risks is only a question we can answer individually. I think this is where this all shakes out.
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Old 03-24-2021, 11:34 AM   #67
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We have a 27’ GT front bedroom. I’m also shopping a new TV.

My Ford dealer has a really cool touchscreen tool. You put your numbers in - weight of driver, passengers, crap you are throwing in truck, trailer, tongue weight etc. it spits out what models can be configured to safely haul you and your toys. Same info as the towing guide but a real nice user interface.

It also has the ability to load in any Ford truck VIN and you can see the payload.

It looks like a Ford sales tool so ask your dealer about it.

I’m ending up with a 250. I’m accepting payload reduction due to diesel and 10 speed transmission.
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Old 03-24-2021, 12:29 PM   #68
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This is why a got a XLT F150 super crew. 1742 payload. On the limited, Lariat, and platinums all those goodies add weight. The moon roof alone is 93 extra pounds. I put in aftermarket leather seats that are heated and cooled—1100 bucks.
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Old 03-24-2021, 01:28 PM   #69
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Been there; done that! F150 Platinum 4x4 Echoboost: Max Payload 1039lbs... could it "tow" a 25' AS? Yes; but the tongue weight, 2 passengers, boxer dog, small generator, bbq grill, some camping gear, and we were "way over" limit! Why you folks want to try and "cheat" the numbers is beyond me! There are many posts here on this topic and those who tow their 27'-30' AS's with a 1/2T likely already know they are pushing the limits. It IS very much about control, braking, handling, and "payload". Those of us who have had both a 1/2T and now have a 3/4T-1T TV understand the big difference when towing. Remember, an AS can be "towed" by just about any vehicle...but to do it right, with safety in mind, enough payload to be within safety limits, get the right size vehicle...your family and AS investment are far to important to skimp. (IMHO, of course!)
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:06 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1000pre View Post
Baron,
Comparing your numbers, you might be thinking you only have 900lbs left for your trailer. When I read this yesterday, I didnít consider your wheels & tires. You weighed in at 6,100...Iím guessing 250-300lbs is wheels & tires which get added to the 900 as available payload. The wheels donít count toward GVWR. You probably have 1,100-1,200 available.
?????confusion here.

Curb weight is a number that the mfg comes up with based on their current definition. Once you have the truck it is no longer a number that matters. What matters is how much your truck actually weighs. If you change the wheels & tires, the difference in weight between the old and the new is applied to your truck's weight. If you add a cover, that also gets added to the truck's weight. What you want to know is how close you are to your GVWR.

Unused Payload = GVWR - actual weight weight of your vehicle

Weigh the truck at a CAT scale and check to be sure that you still have sufficient payload available to tow your trailer.

Or am I missing something?
John
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Old 03-24-2021, 10:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroth View Post
Legally - anything under the door sticker calculations - right? My question here are these. Should something happen where I need insurance, what is my defense? Do I get a CAT document of my weights for each trip and keep that with me for such an event? (how do you prove you did your homework for this?)

IMHO, if you have done your homework and you are under your weight limits you'll be fine. In the US, they will need to prove you are overweight. They can't just claim you are overweight without any proof and expect it to fly. Of course, if you are overweight, theoretically they could get an order and weigh whatever they can in which case you would not be in a good place. I have never actually heard of this happening, just urban legends.
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Old 03-25-2021, 07:38 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayOhBee View Post
?????confusion here.

Curb weight is a number that the mfg comes up with based on their current definition. Once you have the truck it is no longer a number that matters. What matters is how much your truck actually weighs. If you change the wheels & tires, the difference in weight between the old and the new is applied to your truck's weight. If you add a cover, that also gets added to the truck's weight. What you want to know is how close you are to your GVWR.

Unused Payload = GVWR - actual weight weight of your vehicle

Weigh the truck at a CAT scale and check to be sure that you still have sufficient payload available to tow your trailer.

Or am I missing something?
John
You are correct. I call my actual weight my "personal curb weight " for my spreadsheet calculations. I added running boards, tonneau, mudflaps, spray in liner, full fuel and all emergency kit and other items which always stay in truck. This scaled figure is my trucks "personal curb weight".
Once again.....subtracting wheels and tires is incorrect math. Unsprung weight has nothing to do with gross weight. NOTHING. false logic.
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:08 AM   #73
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this is pretty simple stuff.
load up, hook up - then;

weigh the front axle, then weigh the entire truck, subtract the front axle number from the entire truck number and you have the rear axle, then weigh the trailer only. the scale weighs what the road sees.
Three main numbers, TV front and rear axle (which when combined equal TV weight) and trailer. ALL when loaded and hooked up as you would travel.
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Old 03-26-2021, 12:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayOhBee View Post
IMHO, if you have done your homework and you are under your weight limits you'll be fine. In the US, they will need to prove you are overweight. They can't just claim you are overweight without any proof and expect it to fly. Of course, if you are overweight, theoretically they could get an order and weigh whatever they can in which case you would not be in a good place. I have never actually heard of this happening, just urban legends.
Old post, but I did have Ford accident team investigate "payload" from a roll over accident my son was involved with while in college back in 1999. He and 6 others from college were on a ski trip from TX to CO in our Expedition. One of the other kids, was driving, couple were sleeping in back, and they hit some wind late at night, rolled, and one person had back injury....her folks sued us and Ford; our insurance company also sued Ford. This was back in the day when Firestone tire issues were a big deal. I remember they wanted to know how many on board, weight, skiis and gear info, how much extra gear was on top in the roof rack storage pod...Ford Insurance and our insurance ended up settling with us, and we got a new Expedition out of it. Our insurance and Ford also paid for health costs as I recall. Anyway, you never know...pays to be within specs is my take away.
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