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Old 03-21-2021, 12:47 PM   #41
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https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/0...culations.html

Old article, but worth a quick read. Bottom line. Marketing = truth stretches.
Door jamb certification stickers are federally mandated and tell the truth.
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Old 03-21-2021, 01:00 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fair_Enough View Post
Keep in mind the Hensley adds to the payload (weight behind the rear axle, however) and shouldn't be included in tongue weight for calculations. Hensley has the weights of the various models.
FE
Well, technically, parts of a Hensley are part of trailer tongue weight. Like the jacks and their brackets. Since the struts are suspended between the head and A frame, a portion of their weight is trailer weight.
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Old 03-21-2021, 01:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Fair_Enough View Post
Keep in mind the Hensley adds to the payload (weight behind the rear axle, however) and shouldn't be included in tongue weight for calculations. Hensley has the weights of the various models.
FE
Tongue weight is payload. Total tongue weight is subtracted from your available payload.

I think we are all starting to go around in circles...
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Old 03-21-2021, 02:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/0...culations.html

Old article, but worth a quick read. Bottom line. Marketing = truth stretches.
Door jamb certification stickers are federally mandated and tell the truth.
I’m afraid here’s where you and I part company. You should always believe the sales staff and the marketing materials because the sellers only have your best interests at heart.
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Old 03-21-2021, 02:15 PM   #45
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I’m afraid here’s where you and I part company. You should always believe the sales staff and the marketing materials because the sellers only have your best interests at heart.
Synically facetious are we?
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Old 03-21-2021, 02:18 PM   #46
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Tongue weight is payload. Total tongue weight is subtracted from your available payload.

I think we are all starting to go around in circles...
Ugg, is tongue weight the weight placed on the ball by the trailer coupler.....or......the weight placed on the truck by the device stuck in the receiver?

Not the same figure.
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Old 03-21-2021, 04:07 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Ugg, is tongue weight the weight placed on the ball by the trailer coupler.....or......the weight placed on the truck by the device stuck in the receiver?

Not the same figure.


The answer is both, it’s the sum total of load placed on the vehicle by the trailer. So the weight of the weight distribution receiver plus the weight added when you drop the trailer on the ball or hook it up to the stinger.
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Old 03-21-2021, 04:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Ugg, is tongue weight the weight placed on the ball by the trailer coupler.....or......the weight placed on the truck by the device stuck in the receiver?

Not the same figure.
I’m personally going with the device stuck in the receiver. That is the actual weight the truck feels. The WD hitch applies force to the hinge point between the TV & trailer (being the ball) to lift and straighten the point between both the tongue and the back of the truck. It’s a leverage affect that moves some of the weight off of the back axle and onto the front. It’s basically twisting the heck out of your trailer hitch to the point of lifting up the back of your truck. The WD hitch does not lessen the weight, it just distributes it.

I’m surprised the whole thing doesn’t just explode off the back of our trucks!
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Old 03-21-2021, 04:19 PM   #49
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The answer is both, it’s the sum total of load placed on the vehicle by the trailer. So the weight of the weight distribution receiver plus the weight added when you drop the trailer on the ball or hook it up to the stinger.
You're part way there. It is not additive of the two. The physics of the lever principle applies.....even more so with a ppp hitch or a long drawbar on a hitch head.
My problem is the indiscriminate use of "tongue weight " for both. Is is inaccurate and very confusing for a lot of folks.
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Old 03-21-2021, 05:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
You're part way there. It is not additive of the two. The physics of the lever principle applies.....even more so with a ppp hitch or a long drawbar on a hitch head.
My problem is the indiscriminate use of "tongue weight " for both. Is is inaccurate and very confusing for a lot of folks.


I was trying to keep it simple, my way probably overstates it but better that than under. Only way to be really accurate is to use scales.
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Old 03-21-2021, 06:05 PM   #51
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I was trying to keep it simple, my way probably overstates it but better that than under. Only way to be really accurate is to use scales.
No question. I use the calculations, validated with the cat scales to use a spreadsheet. My load changes dramatically from weekend trips, to weeklong trips, to 10 or 12 week trips. In addition, I always move things around on long trips for convenience....liquid tanks vary in fill level, etc. With the sheet properly developed, I only need to re-scale every couple years. Otherwise I'd be there often.
It also answered other burning questions, like proper spring bar rating, how much head tilt, etc.
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Old 03-21-2021, 06:34 PM   #52
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This will be our 17th year towing 'Cloudsplitter', I still check in at the CAT's at the start of the Season, or if the load is outside of my "seat of the pants" spread sheet. BSTS

With our FW tank between the axles we always travel with it full, I find it much easier to balance the load that way.

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Old 03-21-2021, 07:08 PM   #53
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This will be our 17th year towing 'Cloudsplitter', I still check in at the CAT's at the start of the Season, or if the load is outside of my "seat of the pants" spread sheet. BSTS

With our FW tank between the axles we always travel with it full, I find it much easier to balance the load that way.

Bob
I start out that way every week or so, but we do a mix of dry camping, partial hookups and full hookups. So my 3 tanks are highly variable. With a 60 gallon fresh, 37 gray and black (roughly) ....and moving other items around on a long trip, all I have to do is pull out the laptop, change a few input figures and let the excel formulas do their magic. It has amazed me how "living" in the AS fore weeks at a time changes things. And it's not hard to see how one can get themselves in trouble, like that 350 hanging from a bridge....although it appears there were some extreme examples there.
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Old 03-21-2021, 07:10 PM   #54
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I'm also amazed how much more complicated a wd setup is to calculate than the pintle hook flatbeds I dealt with on the job.
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Old 03-21-2021, 08:21 PM   #55
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I should say how much more complicated a ppp wd is. A regular wd setup which rotates on the ball isn't that complicated
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:08 AM   #56
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Quote:
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"Food for thought.. If as I often see, the difference between 3/4 and 1 ton, is an additional rear spring. Why wouldn’t adding a rear spring to a 1/2 ton increase it’s capability? "

Because 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks are built the same on the same chassis. But...1/2 ton trucks are an entire different build and platform. Because the springs are not what limits it to a 1/2 ton truck.
The part you left out of my original message was I WAS NOT making a 1/2 ton into a 3/4 ton.. But you brought up a interesting point. In saying the springs are not the limiting factor makes me think you do know what limits a half ton. Tires? Frame? The number of lugs on the wheels, etc.?
My original point was if you can transform a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton with a leaf spring, then why can’t you “IMPROVE” a 1/2 ton with a rear spring? Just looking for insight.
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:03 AM   #57
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The part you left out of my original message was I WAS NOT making a 1/2 ton into a 3/4 ton.. But you brought up a interesting point. In saying the springs are not the limiting factor makes me think you do know what limits a half ton. Tires? Frame? The number of lugs on the wheels, etc.?

My original point was if you can transform a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton with a leaf spring, then why can’t you “IMPROVE” a 1/2 ton with a rear spring? Just looking for insight.


All of the above, different frame, axle size, differential, springs, engine(maybe), transmission (maybe) etc.

And 3/4 to 1 ton is more than just the springs, usually rear axles etc.
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:32 AM   #58
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Putting a "helper spring" or additional springs on a 1/2 ton will make it sag less with the same load as without the additional springs. I do not think translates to additional tow capacity when using a WD hitch.
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Old 03-23-2021, 07:08 AM   #59
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Well, since we are all dealing with opinion, I’ll say it sure makes the truck handle differently. Much more comfortable when towing. Seems more planted as well. But that’s just my opinion.

Edit, referring to Roadmaster Active Suspension. More than just a helper spring..
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Old 03-24-2021, 09:38 AM   #60
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First, I wouldn't be surprised if one was not authorized to tow with a leased 1/2 ton. Given, you must be, I can answer from the Plat EB 4x4 side. First, I dumped the Scorpions for Michelin LTXs - much better wet traction. In my case, the weight limit that I fought was my rear axle. Loaded to tow, with a seriously empty bed, my 150s rear axle was 50lbs under its limit. Combine that with the plug fowling I experience with high turbo demand, I concluded that my original 5000lb GW TT was much more appropriate than the 7700lb one I have now that pushed the truck to it absolute limit - Ford published a 10,000lb limit. Hence, I like the rule of thumb that I've read in these threads, "limit yourself to 50% of what they say you can tow. Then you can tow safely, and stop safely. Oh, yes, I forgot to tell you. My 150 front rotors warped when I started towing the 7700 TT. I upgraded my rotors and pads all around - a good move. Not as good as my ultimate move - I now tow with an F350 Powerstroke. The 7700lb TT now knows who's driving whom! My tow-driving is much less stressful! I highly suggest it, if you can. Or stick with smaller scale lighter TTs. Happy trails.
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