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Old 10-16-2020, 08:55 AM   #41
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^^^^^^
Short answer...get the axle,(door jam sticker) and tire load, (sidewall) ratings for the Jeep and don't exceed them.
Research your hitch options, pick quality, proper set-up of any hitch is whats MOST important. I would not depend solely on the JEEPS sway mitigation, it initiates AFTER sway starts.

Sweet STREAMS.

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Old 10-16-2020, 09:11 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgottleib View Post
I am finding this post interesting, thanks to everyone for providing expertise.

I have a basecamp 20x on order, current tow vehicle is a jeep grand cherokee limited EcoDeisel model, w Jeep heavy duty tow package that includes an electronic system for sway \ WD. I thought at first I was all set and wouldn't have to consider anything but after reading this post I am now thinking I need to revisit my thoughts on whether I should purchase external sway kit and WD system. Jeep makes great claims about its tow ratings but when you start to dig deeper you see that there is so much more to this than meets the eye. I think I'm going to have to put my own post up to ask for some expertise with my setup before I run into these issues. I am going to have to pick up the Basecamp at a dealership 2 hours from home and I want to make sure that first trip home is a safe one.

I rented an Airstream Gunnar Safari 16 to see how my jeep would perform and it was fine as far as I could tell, didn't sway, super easy to tow, accelerated up hills... but the Basecamp 20x is about 900lbs heavier.

Another concern I have is figuring out the tongue capacity of my jeep, for some reason there is a lot of conflicting info out there and I've seen charts showing tongue capacity for some jeeps at 350Lbs, that's not a lot! My ecodeisel typically isn't inlcuded in many of the publications about jeeps you find on the web, so its a real pain getting answers. I called jeep and opened a ticket w support about it and all they said was your tongue weight is 10 to 15% of the trailer.. WTF is that supposed to mean if you are trying to figure out how much your jeep can accomodate? stating that your tonuge weight should be 10 to 15% doesn't tell you how much your jeep can actually handle.. what your jeep can handle depends on how its built \ equipped, so I'm lost when people provide these vauge answers..
Don’t expect a straight answer from Jeep. I’m not sure about your model year but most newer Grand Cherokees require weight distribution for trailers over 3500 pounds. The 350 pound tongue weigh limit goes along with a 3500 pound tow limit Jeep puts on the Grand Cherokee without a factory installed hitch. If you have a factory installed hitch and not an after market or dealer installed one the the tow capacity for the eco diesel is likely 7200 and a 720 max tongue weight.
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Old 10-16-2020, 09:37 AM   #43
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There are a lot of reasons for using the CAT scales after setting up a rig. Do people who tow with SUV's generally do that? I expect the successful ones do. I think it is like when I had a boat. The less powerful the motor and the less cargo capacity the boat has makes the prop setup and the loading that much more important. Even if you do not want to do the whole 3 pass method with all the unhitching just 1 pass over the CAT scales with the complete rig setup tells you an awful lot about the rig for 10 mins time and 10 bucks cost.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:26 AM   #44
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Kgottleib, to add to Shiny's comments, you can very safely tow the 20' home if you stay below 65 and slow down for sharp corners (follow the truck speed guidance).

The tongue capacity for your vehicle is 720 lbs and applies when towing a 7200 lb trailer. The limit is not structural, suspension, or drive train limited, it is to avoid oversteer. As you back away from the 7200 lb trailer, oversteer tendency is reduced so tongue weight can be safely increased a bit.

You will have no trouble towing up to a 23' trailer with the Jeep, though WD and sway control is strongly advised at 23'. 25' would be the safe and low risk limit for the Jeep, but significant accommodations will be required to avoid risk of oversteer and sway.

Since you are contemplating a 20' trailer you can maintain good safety margin by following my initial guidance. For a more pleasant drive and more safety margin, add a WD hitch with modest, gentle WD and decent sway control, nothing with stiff bars, either something with tapered low tension bars or the Andersen. There are pluses and minuses to each. Inflate your rear tires 5-7 psi over the guidance while towing, this will reduce oversteer tendency.
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:25 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by bibbs View Post
I would try to find some truck rims and tires. Or Start over and get the whole truck.
Oh no! The "just get a truck" guys have once again wandered onto SUV towing problem thread. It could get ugly.
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:42 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginophiles View Post
Oh no! The "just get a truck" guys have once again wandered onto SUV towing problem thread. It could get ugly.

Wandered??? Problem???
Ban the addled wanderers.

Bob
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:57 AM   #47
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Interesting the OP has not posted again. I had 2 flat Michelin tires on my 2500 truck while towing my 25' Airstream last summer. Should I make a bunch of adjustments? Since both flat tires had a large sheet metal screw or a bolt sticking through then I decided not to. So one of the "truck guys" has already posted a couple of times.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:20 PM   #48
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2 days and 48 posts. No sign of the OP Hope this great information was helpful!
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:09 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panamerican View Post
Zooming in on the tire picture, I see two things:

1) Made in China (not always a great sign)
2) 975kg rated (about 2,149lbs).

Hitch weight is roughly 10% tow rating and I think the 19' Bambi dry should be **around** 500lbs. Load the front, fill the tanks, and put in batteries and you could be closer to 700lbs as Airstream hitch weights are notoriously low per the specs vs real world in use weighing. Putting about 3k of weight per axle hitched +/-.

These tires, though by the numbers **should** be able to handle the load, I cannot tell how much cargo, if any is in the back of the car due to tint. Car should weigh 5300 to 5600lbs empty, then add passengers and cargo plus hitch weight and you can tell if the back axle is being over taxed.

My guess is, bad tires, but also these appear to be low profile performance like tires, not really a good choice for towing....sort of kin to having a Corvette vs a sedan tire. I don't recall that brand being the OEM brand tires installed on that particular vehicle. JCanavera is also correct, speed and correct tire pressures are key. Pressure test must be done before departure and pressure should be at the max rating if weight requires max pressure to achieve the 2149lb carrying capacity. Speeds should never really go higher than 70 and IIRC, the trailer tires are only rated to about 65 if load range D.

My concern is that you blew both back tires? Shifting weight up front if the tires are not up to snuff could cause a front blow out which is harder to overcome. Additionally when folks rate performance tires with good feedback, rarely are performance tires put through the effects of towing, so good marks for this brand tire, based on the intended application, doesn't resonate much with me.
I have a 2019 footer... 550 lbs tongue weight GVWR is 4500 lbs. the tongue weight includes batteries and full propane tanks.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
2 days and 48 posts. No sign of the OP Hope this great information was helpful!
The OP was on the forums as of about 9:30 this morning, so hopefully he reviewed the thread before logging back off.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:50 PM   #51
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2-1/2 days and the OP doesn't come back with anything. I have to say, excellent advice / opinions for the most part and it sure looks like not enough weight expressed to the front "axle" and the tires can't be ideal. While we are talking to ourselves, anyone consider the max frontal area rating for the TV? 12... 20 SF? What is the trailer 75 - 80 SF?
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:28 PM   #52
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I don’t think that low profile high performance tires are a good choice for towing. The tire in the picture is from 2016, so already 4 years old. Not terribly old, but apparently too old for towing.
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:12 PM   #53
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1/2 ton ram....or chevy..
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:04 PM   #54
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Thanks everyone very helpful. I swapped in four new Toyo tires. I wanted to do wheels and rims but that would void my warranty (Carmax).

Then I focused on the WDH. Dropped my hitch two holes and cranked the bars up another link. The setup dropped the car more evenly this time.

Today I hit a Cat scale and used a tongue scale I bought. Tongue was about 500 lbs. Cat results below (hitch engaged, car loaded with people:

Steer axle: 2760
Drive axle: 3800
Trailer axle: 3980

Gross: 10540

From my newbie perspective seems like I still should try to move weight forward on the TV by cranking in the WDH another link. Right?
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:06 PM   #55
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@Fair_Enough: reason delayed response is I’m on the road, 2 kids a dog and mother in law trying to troubleshoot this from crappy RV park WiFi while driving 6 hrs a day.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:18 PM   #56
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Reading more of all your advice, really appreciate it. Some more color:

@pteck this inner “toe-in” wear on the rear tires is exactly what happened. Insides of both rear tires completely lost treads. Like they wore from inside out.

To many who asked: rear tires were at capacity (49 psi). I measured them every other day.

To the person who noted that I understated the GVWR that’s true, my bad. It’s 4500 and the Audi is rated to 6600 FWIW.

Tongue (using my new scale, thanks to the person who recommended that) is 500lbs.

Oh and I’m not getting a truck. Sorry. Ha.
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Old 10-23-2020, 07:19 PM   #57
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirDrew View Post
Thanks everyone very helpful. I swapped in four new Toyo tires. I wanted to do wheels and rims but that would void my warranty (Carmax).

Then I focused on the WDH. Dropped my hitch two holes and cranked the bars up another link. The setup dropped the car more evenly this time.

Today I hit a Cat scale and used a tongue scale I bought. Tongue was about 500 lbs. Cat results below (hitch engaged, car loaded with people:

Steer axle: 2760
Drive axle: 3800
Trailer axle: 3980

Gross: 10540

From my newbie perspective seems like I still should try to move weight forward on the TV by cranking in the WDH another link. Right?
This is just a stab in the dark. (front axle is 1000lb lighter than rear)
Without a loaded unhitched TV weight it's impossible to determine a front axle return number. How are you loading the AS, load front, center or rear?

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Old 10-23-2020, 07:55 PM   #58
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Pretty much center
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirDrew View Post
Thanks everyone very helpful. I swapped in four new Toyo tires. I wanted to do wheels and rims but that would void my warranty (Carmax).

Then I focused on the WDH. Dropped my hitch two holes and cranked the bars up another link. The setup dropped the car more evenly this time.

Today I hit a Cat scale and used a tongue scale I bought. Tongue was about 500 lbs. Cat results below (hitch engaged, car loaded with people:

Steer axle: 2760
Drive axle: 3800
Trailer axle: 3980

Gross: 10540

From my newbie perspective seems like I still should try to move weight forward on the TV by cranking in the WDH another link. Right?
I'm not sure exactly which Q7 model you have or engine type? The curb weight from the factory is about 5300-5600lbs. I'll assume about 5500 for some quick math. I can't find the exact weight distribution for the Q7. Classically, Audi's tend to be a bit nose heavy. Say weight distribution roughly 55:45, or 3,025:2,475 unladen.

1) From that, it appears you're still a bit light on the front end, especially as you're saying the vehicle is loaded.
2) Your rear axle is at GAWR of 3,800lbs, and probably can use a bit of help

For those reasons, I would suggest it could use another link on the WDH. Try it, you can always back it off if it feels like too much. It should drive notably more stable with less porpoising if dialed in right.

You should be able to see an obvious curve in the WD bars. Take another side profile picture and we'll try to help.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:10 PM   #60
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Good that you got the trailer lower in the front. that will work nicer. You will want to add a bit more tension to take another 200-300 off the rear axle. Then once that is set, look at the rear camber carefully to be sure the tires are not leaning in at the top by more than just a bit. Use a square piece of cardboard to make it easier to tell. Also watch tire wear look for signs of scrubbing wear on the side tread of the tires in or out, perhaps both camber is off and toe is outward. If the new tires are not wearing exactly evenly get an alignment as soon as possible.

Edit: yes what pteck said.
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