Audi RSQ8 towing 27' Globetrotter... Are we nuts or in love?

[kscherzi]

If a 20,000 lb short wheelbase Freightliner tractor can safely haul a 60,000 lb long wheelbase trailer, what's the issue with the Audi?

I choose a F150 because I can carry dirty stuff in the bed, not because only trucks are capable of towing trailers. Towed my same trailer with a Ford Expedition SUV for years, no problems. His Audi with 600 hp will probably out tow anybody uphill.

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

If a 20,000 lb short wheelbase Freightliner tractor can safely haul a 60,000 lb long wheelbase trailer, what's the issue with the Audi?

I choose a F150 because I can carry dirty stuff in the bed, not because only trucks are capable of towing trailers. Towed my same trailer with a Ford Expedition SUV for years, no problems. His Audi with 600 hp will probably out tow anybody uphill.

1). Cause a tractor trailer has the hitch point directly over a double axle with 8 wheels. And a frame, drive train and suspension specifically designed to do just that.

2) I’ll take that challenge any day of the week. I know the outcome I win. 950 Ft/lbs of torque and 460 Hp.

Now not towing he has a much better ever day luxury SUV. No question. For the same reason I have an SQ5. No one questions whether it’s a great vehicle it is. Just not for this purpose.

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Yikes. If I towed with that I definitely wouldn’t post pictures. Do you not have room in the garage for a dedicated tow vehicle? That Audi would be great for commuting and maybe light hauling. This setup reminds me of people who show up with a hideous, gauldily painted fifth wheel, four kids, a boat, golf cart and five bicycles. Why? Just why?

If you had 4 kids would you leave one home? Which kid gets to go without a bike? How many Airstreams are suited for a family of 6? How many 5th wheels that are suited for a family of 6 are available with non hideous graphics? Don’t be a snob!

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

If a 20,000 lb short wheelbase Freightliner tractor can safely haul a 60,000 lb long wheelbase trailer, what's the issue with the Audi?

I choose a F150 because I can carry dirty stuff in the bed, not because only trucks are capable of towing trailers. Towed my same trailer with a Ford Expedition SUV for years, no problems. His Audi with 600 hp will probably out tow anybody uphill.

The hitch on his Audi is rated no where close to what the tongue weight is for one thing.

[AdvToaster]

Originally Posted by pteck

Sorry, but that's not how that works. More weight, less tire, truck suspension does not equal what you assume. You're confusing high payload and towing capacity for a different quality.

Less tire? My tires are over a foot wide. They may not be high performance tires, but the coefficient of friction and contact patch size are definitely higher on my truck with the weight on them than they are on that Mercedes with its weight on its tires, unless it’s running soft compound drag tires.

Originally Posted by Andrew T

It's pretty easy to make a bold statement when your being allowed to bring a gun to a fist fight. First of the Walker's Mercedes would not have gotten to 45 degrees in the first place for a few reasons. First of all the Mercedes has excellent steering feel your aware of what the front tires are doing and would know that you were approaching traction limits, the vague steering with the live front axle dodge tells you nothing. The Mercedes tires have considerably more traction than the LT bricks on the dodge so they probably would not have lost traction in the first place, also the automatic stability control in the Mercedes is far more sophisticated so if all else failed it would have kept it straight. Suppose thought that none of that worked and the Mercedes did wind up 45 degrees though not as heavy as a diesel dodge the weight is lower the stance much wider and the tires stay planted on the road so it would still handle the situation very nicely.

As you can see in this picture I have pushed a GL pretty hard with a trailer that is far worse handling than a 34 Airstream.

Steering wasn’t the issue, as the wheel was straight. I was making a very slow lane change, “drifting” over instead of turning as i was in no hurry and the road was wet. To say that the Mercedes’ tires would have had more traction on straight ice is only true if they were studded. The stability control in my truck gets all the recognition for the recovery, all I did was point the front wheels the direction I wanted to go. The truck was handling the brakes. My truck btw, is gas, not diesel, thought the only relevance that has here is that it has less-unequal weight distribution.

One last note about steering feel. That Mercedes SUV has an electric steering rack. These are widely known for having very poor steering feel. Mercedes will put some resistance back against the wheel so the driver feels as though they have some steering feel. VW/Audi/Porsche (and pretty much any other manufacturer using electric power steering) do the same thing.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Shiny16

If you had 4 kids would you leave one home? Which kid gets to go without a bike? How many Airstreams are suited for a family of 6? How many 5th wheels that are suited for a family of 6 are available with non hideous graphics? Don’t be a snob!

You missed my point entirely. If camping is a chore because you have to agonize over axle limits and weights it’s not fun, just like camping with screaming kids and tons of cargo. It’s supposed to be fun. Get a big enough truck.

I went through this choice myself, almost bought a half ton with 2000lb payload and a diesel. Then I visualized carefully loading, weighing, and managing payload and cancelled that order, and picked up an F350. I keep a smaller SUV for commuting, it sits in the street.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

If a 20,000 lb short wheelbase Freightliner tractor can safely haul a 60,000 lb long wheelbase trailer, what's the issue with the Audi?

I choose a F150 because I can carry dirty stuff in the bed, not because only trucks are capable of towing trailers. Towed my same trailer with a Ford Expedition SUV for years, no problems. His Audi with 600 hp will probably out tow anybody uphill.

Uphill wouldn’t worry me, the Audi would pull the trailer. I’d worry note about downhill when the trailer pushes the Audi. And why would you beat the crap out of a nice commuting SUV loading it with dogs, kids, firewood, and pulling a trailer?

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

You missed my point entirely. If camping is a chore because you have to agonize over axle limits and weights it’s not fun, just like camping with screaming kids and tons of cargo. It’s supposed to be fun. Get a big enough truck.

I went through this choice myself, almost bought a half ton with 2000lb payload and a diesel. Then I visualized carefully loading, weighing, and managing payload and cancelled that order, and picked up an F350. I keep a smaller SUV for commuting, it sits in the street.

Sorry if I misunderstood. I guess the hideous comment threw me. The internet is not always provide the best exchange.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

If a 20,000 lb short wheelbase Freightliner tractor can safely haul a 60,000 lb long wheelbase trailer, what's the issue with the Audi?

I choose a F150 because I can carry dirty stuff in the bed, not because only trucks are capable of towing trailers. Towed my same trailer with a Ford Expedition SUV for years, no problems. His Audi with 600 hp will probably out tow anybody uphill.

To elaborate further, the semi-tractor's 8 tires and hitch point over the axles and very heavy tongue weights prevent rear axle cornering slip which in turn prevents sway and jackknifes. With overhung hitches single axles and single tires, you need to compensate with vehicle weight and wheelbase. The Audi is compromised on both compared to a larger vehicle.

You should be careful suggesting small vehicles are capable tow vehicles for large trailers until you understand the risks of sway and oversteer and can asses when they are likely an issue.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by AdvToaster

Less tire? My tires are over a foot wide. They may not be high performance tires, but the coefficient of friction and contact patch size are definitely higher on my truck with the weight on them than they are on that Mercedes with its weight on its tires, unless it’s running soft compound drag tires.



Steering wasn’t the issue, as the wheel was straight. I was making a very slow lane change, “drifting” over instead of turning as i was in no hurry and the road was wet. To say that the Mercedes’ tires would have had more traction on straight ice is only true if they were studded. The stability control in my truck gets all the recognition for the recovery, all I did was point the front wheels the direction I wanted to go. The truck was handling the brakes. My truck btw, is gas, not diesel, thought the only relevance that has here is that it has less-unequal weight distribution.

One last note about steering feel. That Mercedes SUV has an electric steering rack. These are widely known for having very poor steering feel. Mercedes will put some resistance back against the wheel so the driver feels as though they have some steering feel. VW/Audi/Porsche (and pretty much any other manufacturer using electric power steering) do the same thing.

Just as it's hard to win against a gun with just your fists, it's also difficult to put your real life situation against a just so hypothetical and come out ahead. The idea that a small performance SUV would have less of an issue with oversteer while towing on ice than a heavy truck is laughable. Hypothetical situations belong in the fiction section of the library.

[Andrew T]

Sorry to have to disagree but please understand I have towed travel trailers and fifth wheels more miles on ice and snow than most people have towed in total. Many of those miles with sedans vans and SUV’s. Trucks with Load Range E tires have terrible traction in winter conditions. The hard rubber compound that gives great tread life is the enemy when it’s cold.

[BayouBiker]

Proper tires are everything in stability and control. Let's not blame the vehicle for a poorly performing tire not suitable for winter conditions.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by walker

Yep, the 2 camps remain divided, no doubt forever, the “Peterbilt” biggest you can get (which by nature can’t fail) and the practical application camp. Picture attached of my hitch set up. Hitch mod addition by CanAm with torque arm to rear end subframe. Hinsley, that is my preference. As to tongue wt, alum propane tanks, with six on the ground, removed spare and its holder. Computer controlled 4 corner air suspension. Huge brakes. Tires at 51psi are well within limits as are axel weights. So, it can be done, but has to be done....

From the pic I guess you rolled and ended upside down?��

[pteck]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

You should be careful suggesting small vehicles are capable tow vehicles for large trailers until you understand the risks of sway and oversteer and can asses when they are likely an issue.

No disrespect and I admire your passion.

There is an fundamental understanding you have that is not correct, that you have voiced multiple times in various threads. The primary concern with overhung hitches is not oversteer as you assume. It's actually just the opposite - understeer.

Intuitively, putting a weight at the rear axle increases rear axle traction. Put it on the rear axle in an overhung manner adds to that effect with reduced front axle traction. Understeer, and loss of directional control, is a primary limiting factor. In fact, the main J2807 tests are for understeer against different FALR settings in its Combination Handling Requirements when establishing vehicle tow limits. Among damping factors and others.

Thought you might want to know before you continue your thoughts on oversteer. The resulting jackknife due to loss of control in an accident is not the main root of concern as you keep alluding to.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Proper tires are everything in stability and control. Let's not blame the vehicle for a poorly performing tire not suitable for winter conditions.

He does have a point though. Not many people spend $75k+ on a pickup and then buy a $1500 set of winter tires for it. However, most of us put away the camper when there’s snow/salt on the roads.

[waninae39]

all season tires start to get hard at 8C and are often hard plastic at 4c.
summer tires are even worse

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Uphill wouldn’t worry me, the Audi would pull the trailer. I’d worry note about downhill when the trailer pushes the Audi. And why would you beat the crap out of a nice commuting SUV loading it with dogs, kids, firewood, and pulling a trailer?

Trailer has its own brakes. This shouldn't ever happen if the gain is properly set.

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

He does have a point though. Not many people spend $75k+ on a pickup and then buy a $1500 set of winter tires for it. However, most of us put away the camper when there’s snow/salt on the roads.

Or get mud and snow rated tires like my KO2s. [emoji41]

[walker]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

From the pic I guess you rolled and ended upside down?��

😂 yep, and my wife can stand on her head for, like, forever... I have rotated my pics every whichaway in edit and they still load upside down using my iphone. I prob need to try my laptop and see what I get. Any suggestion from our group of highly authoritative contributors?

PS. My parents did roll a 84 Surburban pulling a 73 , 31’ AS and walked away. Long story for another day, but I have been towing and moving heavy equipment for 47 years.....

[Gibson3798]

I appreciate a great driving Audi as much as anyone. I’ve also driven everything from a tandem dump truck, to semi, to a 70 ton coal hauling machine.

There is no circumstance where I’d hitch a passenger car to a travel trailer of any length. That may work up until the point where that weight behind that car starts pushing it past its ability to handle it.

No level of creature comfort or ease of parallel parking will cause me to place my family in a vehicle that’s on the edge of it’s capability.