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Old 08-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #141
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You are hyperventilating dude.
One thing hasn't changed ...... <snip rant>
Always good for comic relief!
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:04 PM   #142
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What there is today exist only because of the immense climate hoax and heavy subsidies.
There's only so much we can do to educate and convince those who think they already know everything there is to know. Fortunately, the world is moving forward despite those who don't believe that pollution is causing climate change. Trump recently thought he would give the auto industry a break by lowering emissions standards, and Ford, BMW, Volkswagen and Honda (which represent 30% of the NA market) said no thanks, we'll stick to the California standards.

Study: Those with the least understanding of science oppose it the most and also think they know the most.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:13 PM   #143
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What there is today exist only because of the immense climate hoax and heavy subsidies.
...
It takes you 8 hours to fill it and gets you down the road 150 miles. My truck fills up in 15 minutes gets me down the road 450 miles pulling a trailer.
You know the internets also tell me the earth is flat and vaccines cause autism.

My i3 takes less than 3 hours to charge from empty. And I hardly ever get that low.

What's the quote about playing chess with a pigeon...
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:57 PM   #144
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You are hyperventilating dude.
It takes you 8 hours to fill it and gets you down the road 150 miles.
No that is simply not true at all. It takes about 15-30 minutes at a level 3 charging station to get a modern batter electric vehicle about 150 miles down the road. Recently level 3 has been improves to the point of getting over 200 miles of range in 30 minutes.

One can educate themselves relatively easly these days with a little thing called the internet. However, it is also their right to remain ignorant if they chose...
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:34 PM   #145
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After climax hoax I quit reading.
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Old 08-04-2019, 08:10 PM   #146
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After climax hoax I quit reading.
"climax hoax"???
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:54 AM   #147
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You are hyperventilating dude.
One thing hasn't changed since the advent of Electrically driven vehicles around 1890 is the over hype and scam artist in the industry. You might want to spend some time reading about and educate yourself. Once the Internal Combustion vehicles hit their stride the EV industry collapsed and has never recovered. What there is today exist only because of the immense climate hoax and heavy subsidies.
Electric vehicles have their uses. If I only drove to the grocery store and the bingo hall once a week I might consider one. However even with that I can by a small IC car for half of what a comparable EV and will only fill tank twice a month.
And since I pull a 10k lbs Airstream my big honking F-250 diesel is perfect for the job. Additionally I truly enjoy driving it especially in heavy traffic on 290 around Chicago. Hell I even enjoy driving it 3 miles to the grocery store.
I look at batteries in electric vehicles as fuel tanks. It takes you 8 hours to fill it and gets you down the road 150 miles. My truck fills up in 15 minutes gets me down the road 450 miles pulling a trailer.
Dude I have a diesel truck too, and really like it. Educate myself? That’s a good one. I actually work in the industry. Go ahead and read popular mechanics or whatever it is you read. Every time this topic comes up you ramble on about the limitations of batteries made 100 years ago and going to the moon. Get some new material. Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:45 AM   #148
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My feeling is that the oil companies were pleased as punch when the climate change "discussion" started. They could oppose climate change as a hoax but they couldn't deny good old fashioned pollution that exhausts created. When we got focused on climate change, we stopped talking about pollution. Well, that's still a thing and we could all (climate deniers as well) still do what we could to create less pollution.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:27 AM   #149
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And we thought diesels had torque

I do love that auto-correct...

That of course should have been "climate hoax"
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:06 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by farafield View Post
My feeling is that the oil companies were pleased as punch when the climate change "discussion" started. They could oppose climate change as a hoax but they couldn't deny good old fashioned pollution that exhausts created. When we got focused on climate change, we stopped talking about pollution. Well, that's still a thing and we could all (climate deniers as well) still do what we could to create less pollution.
Back to the previous discussion, technological advances build upon previous advances. The result is exponential growth. All one has to do is look at how aviation, electronics and communications advanced through the 20th century. I have no doubt that the obstacles to widespread deployment of EV’s in transportation will be overcome in the near future.

While we’re at it...Pollution is an issue. Climate change is real. With maybe 150 years of measured data compared against the age of the earth, I don’t think we have enough data to correlate changes in climate to human activity, IMHO.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:17 AM   #151
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I do love that auto-correct...

That of course should have been "climate hoax"
Yeah. I was wondering where THAT would take this thread 😀
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:33 AM   #152
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While we’re at it...Pollution is an issue. Climate change is real. With maybe 150 years of measured data compared against the age of the earth, I don’t think we have enough data to correlate changes in climate to human activity, IMHO.
Science from all over the globe is unified in stating that climate change is caused by human activity. When you pump 200lbs of fuel in your truck, where do you think that mass goes? Multiple that by the number of cars/ industry burning fuel.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #153
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This discussion reminds me. In the “dark ages”, religious leaders thought they knew better than scientists - anyone remember Galileo - called a “heretic” by “the” church for having the audacity to observe the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa....

Today, politicians from both sides of the aisle and corporations who have something equivalent to their own “religious empires” to maintain all have opinions to shut the scientists up. Not much has changed on that front over the centuries.

The side with the loudest emotional argument, thinnest set of verifiable facts, and penchant for insults of those who disagree is historically proven wrong time and time again.

Use that insight for whatever purpose you wish.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:09 PM   #154
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Science from all over the globe is unified in stating that climate change is caused by human activity. When you pump 200lbs of fuel in your truck, where do you think that mass goes? Multiple that by the number of cars/ industry burning fuel.
Not all that 200lbs stays mass. Much of it is converted to energy. You know that, right?

Sure. Just follow the $$. Open scientific discussion and debate has been so squelched on this topic that anyone questioning the accepted doctrine will never get research $$, fellowships or probably tenure in a university.

To your and Steve’s point, there was a time when the scientific community overwhelmingly thought the earth was flat. Remember the first earth day? They were worried about global cooling at the time. The argument that a whole bunch of other people believe a theory and that makes it true is a very thin one indeed. Think for yourself.

As an engineer I consider myself and other engineers part of the scientific community. I understand data analysis and extracting information from data. I just believe that 150 years of measured data against the age of the earth and a very slowly changing climate is a very thin slice to extrapolate from and draw conclusions.

That’s just my opinion. No need to get all upset over it.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:04 PM   #155
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Not all that 200lbs stays mass. Much of it is converted to energy. You know that, right?

~~
"much" of it is converted to energy? Not really. This is just not so.

We're talking chemical combustion here, not direct conversion of mass to energy. You're just rearranging the atoms, not destroying them. If you run a combustion engine in a closed system (with the fuel, intake air and exhaust all captured within the system) the mass of the system won't change appreciably as the fuel and oxygen are converted into combustion outputs.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:48 PM   #156
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I understand data analysis and extracting information from data. I just believe that 150 years of measured data against the age of the earth and a very slowly changing climate is a very thin slice to extrapolate from and draw conclusions.
If in fact the climate was changing as slowly as it did due to natural factors over eons then there would be very little to get excited about. The temperature isn't the problem, the rate of change is the problem.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:00 PM   #157
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"much" of it is converted to energy? Not really. This is just not so.

We're talking chemical combustion here, not direct conversion of mass to energy. You're just rearranging the atoms, not destroying them. If you run a combustion engine in a closed system (with the fuel, intake air and exhaust all captured within the system) the mass of the system won't change appreciably as the fuel and oxygen are converted into combustion outputs.
Absolutely correct!!! Thanks...
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:28 PM   #158
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If in fact the climate was changing as slowly as it did due to natural factors over eons then there would be very little to get excited about. The temperature isn't the problem, the rate of change is the problem.
How do we know what the rate of change was when the earth came out of the ice age? The present concern that has been discussed I believe is just 1 or 2 deg C.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:41 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by KK4YZ View Post
Not all that 200lbs stays mass. Much of it is converted to energy. You know that, right?

Sure. Just follow the $$. Open scientific discussion and debate has been so squelched on this topic that anyone questioning the accepted doctrine will never get research $$, fellowships or probably tenure in a university.

To your and Steve’s point, there was a time when the scientific community overwhelmingly thought the earth was flat. Remember the first earth day? They were worried about global cooling at the time. The argument that a whole bunch of other people believe a theory and that makes it true is a very thin one indeed. Think for yourself.

As an engineer I consider myself and other engineers part of the scientific community. I understand data analysis and extracting information from data. I just believe that 150 years of measured data against the age of the earth and a very slowly changing climate is a very thin slice to extrapolate from and draw conclusions.

That’s just my opinion. No need to get all upset over it.
I'm not upset, I'm not sure what you read in my post that would give that impression.

If I follow the money, it leads to big oil squashing reports of a climate impact for more than 40 years. I wish there was big money in solar panels and wind farms.

I hope to god I am wrong and all the 99% of climate scientists too. I hope for the sake of my children and future grand children we are all wrong.

As an engineer, you should go back and pull out that chemical engineering book for a review. If you have a way to convert mass to energy, you have a Nobel Prize waiting for you.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:15 PM   #160
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How do we know what the rate of change was when the earth came out of the ice age? The present concern that has been discussed I believe is just 1 or 2 deg C.
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Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. Ancient evidence can also be found in tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks. This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming.
That is from NASA scientists. Some of whom are, literally, rocket scientists.

It isn’t any one data point, or model, that provides a degree of confidence. It is the consilience of the evidence.

It is perfectly reasonable to debate what we should do about it. We are well past the point where it is reasonable to debate if there is an “it”.
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