And we thought diesels had torque

[farafield]

While getting the recall done on my gennie (so that I can sell it haha) the service manager really wanted to talk about electric cars! He told me that the direction they are going is to make a battery pack that can be switched out--so when on a longer trip, you go to a dealer or whatever, take out your battery pack and get a new one. So many people don't get an electric car because of the few times of the year when they need a longer range. Until the switch out idea gets going, some kind of rent/car share program would be good.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by farafield

While getting the recall done on my gennie (so that I can sell it haha) the service manager really wanted to talk about electric cars! He told me that the direction they are going is to make a battery pack that can be switched out--so when on a longer trip, you go to a dealer or whatever, take out your battery pack and get a new one. So many people don't get an electric car because of the few times of the year when they need a longer range. Until the switch out idea gets going, some kind of rent/car share program would be good.

That may be true for city dwellers. But for us rural folks it is an 1.5 hour drive to the hospital. And that’s pretty typical for rural communities. And when we drive someplace we tend to do more driving to get other errands done. EVs will be more difficult in rural areas simply because of distance that one has to travel to get to places. Not to say it can’t be over come. Just may take a bit longer.

[farafield]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

That may be true for city dwellers. But for us rural folks it is an 1.5 hour drive to the hospital. And that’s pretty typical for rural communities. And when we drive someplace we tend to do more driving to get other errands done. EVs will be more difficult in rural areas simply because of distance that one has to travel to get to places. Not to say it can’t be over come. Just may take a bit longer.

Yes, absolutely good point.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by farafield

While getting the recall done on my gennie (so that I can sell it haha) the service manager really wanted to talk about electric cars! He told me that the direction they are going is to make a battery pack that can be switched out--so when on a longer trip, you go to a dealer or whatever, take out your battery pack and get a new one. So many people don't get an electric car because of the few times of the year when they need a longer range. Until the switch out idea gets going, some kind of rent/car share program would be good.

A battery is a lousy fuel tank.
The EV people keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

[vintageracer]

The reality is that the VAST MAJORITY of vehicle Buyers/Driver's today LIVE in Urban Areas (Cities) where an Electric Powered Vehicle will "Meat" 98+ percent or more of their daily driving needs for commuting, comfort, hauling, safety and vehicle driving range.

For those long trips of more than 250+ miles or more one way RENT A GAS VEHICLE for that RARE trip!

Living in a METROPOLITAN URBAN AREA in the USA is where most US citizens and illegals live. For these urban living folks driving an electric vehicle is cheaper as you git FREE ELECTRICITY & FREE PRIME PARKING at most all public charging stations, your EV causes no more hassle in your life than a gas powered vehicle AND you git the THRILL of pissing off the government by driving on their nice fancy road for FREE without paying any gasoline tax for that privilege!

All in all it sounds like a GOOD DEAL to me to become ELECTRIFIED for the vast majority of us living and driving in the good ole USA!

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

A battery is a lousy fuel tank.
The EV people keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

It's true. They hold such a tiny amount of fuel.


Never turn your back to the ocean.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

A battery is a lousy fuel tank.

It is misleading to focus on what the efficiency of one component in a system is.

A fuel tank is pretty efficient, but it supplies an internal combustion engine that has a peak thermal efficiency of around 30-35%, but which in typical use is far lower than that due to part throttle operation, more like 15-20%

A battery is less efficient (in terms of space and weight occupied) but that depends on battery technology, and the efficiency is rapidly increasing with technological developments. But the critical point is that it supplies an electric motor which has a peak efficiency of 95%, typical in-use efficiency of 85%, and the potential for regeneration.

No contest.

[kscherzi]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

The reality is that the VAST MAJORITY of vehicle Buyers/Driver's today LIVE in Urban Areas (Cities) where an Electric Powered Vehicle will "Meat" 98+ percent or more of their daily driving needs for commuting, comfort, hauling, safety and vehicle driving range.

For those long trips of more than 250+ miles or more one way RENT A GAS VEHICLE for that RARE trip!

Living in a METROPOLITAN URBAN AREA in the USA is where most US citizens and illegals live. For these urban living folks driving an electric vehicle is cheaper as you git FREE ELECTRICITY & FREE PRIME PARKING at most all public charging stations, your EV causes no more hassle in your life than a gas powered vehicle AND you git the THRILL of pissing off the government by driving on their nice fancy road for FREE without paying any gasoline tax for that privilege!

All in all it sounds like a GOOD DEAL to me to become ELECTRIFIED for the vast majority of us living and driving in the good ole USA!

First off, electricity for electric cars isn't free anymore. There were a few publicly funded free charging stations built early on but most have been removed or replaced by fee based charging. Private charging stations, like at a grocery store, all charge. Charging at ones house was never free. More important, you can now be charged by the minute if you overstay at the charging station after the battery is full.

If everyone had an electric car then parking downtown would be the same hassle as today with a gas car.

Some states have, and the rest are considering, road fees for electric cars to replace revenue lost by the gas tax. Electric car owners will be expected to fund road work in equal measure to owners of gas cars. States won't put up with cuts to their road funding.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

States won't put up with cuts to their road funding.

They have so far!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

They have so far!

Eventually they’ll tax miles driven. The technology exists to monitor and direct bill by the mile. They could even leverage driver behavior (the worse you drive the more you pay).

Careful what you wish for, in your zeal to punish the few electric vehicles on the road.

[vintageracer]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Careful what you wish for in your zeal to punish the few electric vehicles on the road.

I not suggesting to punish or promote electric vehicles either way.

Just stating the obvious FACT that most folks in the USA could seamlessly transfer to an electric vehicle with no changes or compromises in their daily lives or daily driving needs!

The electrical infrastructure support needed to make this electrified change on a large scale is a whole nother issue!

[graysailor]

Kinda following the electric car market. If interested I think I would go with a hybrid at least for now.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Eventually they’ll tax miles driven. The technology exists to monitor and direct bill by the mile. They could even leverage driver behavior (the worse you drive the more you pay).

Careful what you wish for, in your zeal to punish the few electric vehicles on the road.

Agreed, but it will be km here. With different rates based on congestion zones (downtown, tunnels, bridges) and time (rush hour vs not). I also expect different rates based on vehicle size and weight, but not necessarily on fuel type.

We have had a regional government study published here already, proposing different models of (anti) congestion pricing, with either transponders or GPS trackers. They need to replace fuel taxes as a funding stream (our region is moving to electrics much more quickly than some other areas), and this would be more equitable, while also helping with demand management for road space.

[HHPJ]

False?
About 63% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases). About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources as of Mar 1, 2019.
This is directly from the government:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

I won’t even get into the hazards of disposed lithium and lead acid batteries...
“Electric motors and batteries add to the energy of electric-car manufacture. ... The same MIT study noted that the materials used in batteries are harmful to the environment. The mining and processing of metals such as lithium, copper, and nickel requires much energy and it can release toxic compounds.”

Biggest scam around.

Originally Posted by Runs_4_beer

I have heard this before and is mostly false. Depending on where you live, much of your electricity from the grid may already be from renewable sources. In addition, many people with EVs can put solar panels on their house and charge 100% of their miles from the sun. No one can say that with ICE vehicles. Even if 100% of your power came from coal power, the power plant is likely more efficient and maybe even cleaner burning than your vehicle.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-still-cleaner

[Countryboy59]

I see this thread is progressing as usual. Next comes the comparison of the carbon output from building an EV and a windmill, compared to building a Mercedes diesel.

The pollution part doesn’t matter to most people. Everything pollutes. Cost per mile is what matters. When I drove an EV it cost wayyyyyy less to drive than my Jeep, VW diesel (that got 50 mpg) or any of my trucks.

I have a diesel truck for towing. But I commute 60 miles a day. Perfect trip for an EV.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by HHPJ

False?
About 63% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases). About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources as of Mar 1, 2019.
This is directly from the government:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

I won’t even get into the hazards of disposed lithium and lead acid batteries...
“Electric motors and batteries add to the energy of electric-car manufacture. ... The same MIT study noted that the materials used in batteries are harmful to the environment. The mining and processing of metals such as lithium, copper, and nickel requires much energy and it can release toxic compounds.”

Biggest scam around.

Nuclear is also "carbon free". And you do not dispose of lithium ion batteries from vehicles, you recycle them.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

AND you git the THRILL of pissing off the government by driving on their nice fancy road for FREE without paying any gasoline tax for that privilege!

No so fast: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/e...-gas-tax-cost/

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

The reality is that the VAST MAJORITY of vehicle Buyers/Driver's today LIVE in Urban Areas (Cities) where an Electric Powered Vehicle will "Meat" 98+ percent or more of their daily driving needs for commuting, comfort, hauling, safety and vehicle driving range.

For those long trips of more than 250+ miles or more one way RENT A GAS VEHICLE for that RARE trip!

Living in a METROPOLITAN URBAN AREA in the USA is where most US citizens and illegals live. For these urban living folks driving an electric vehicle is cheaper as you git FREE ELECTRICITY & FREE PRIME PARKING at most all public charging stations, your EV causes no more hassle in your life than a gas powered vehicle AND you git the THRILL of pissing off the government by driving on their nice fancy road for FREE without paying any gasoline tax for that privilege!

All in all it sounds like a GOOD DEAL to me to become ELECTRIFIED for the vast majority of us living and driving in the good ole USA!

I agree, if your daily commute is around a 100 miles or less and you can plug it in over night its a great idea. That is how it should be promoted marketed and priced. Not as a complete replacement for the ICE.
There shouldn't be any subsidies whatsoever.
People should purchase them because it fits their needs not because of a government mandate or sbsidie.

[out of sight]

South Carolina charges an annual $120 road use fee (in addition to the registration fee) for electric vehicles. Wait until EV's become more popular. You will see governments and electric companies getting on the bandwagon.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by out of sight

South Carolina charges an annual $120 road use fee (in addition to the registration fee) for electric vehicles. Wait until EV's become more popular. You will see governments and electric companies getting on the bandwagon.

Well what I can say is that after 1 year and 15k miles on our 2017 Tesla model 3 our “all in” cost to operate (maintenance, energy, etc) was $0.04/mile.

My “all in” cost for the same mileage over similar period on my 2017 GMC 2500 tow vehicle was $0.25/mile.

If I had to pay a whopping $120 road tax per year that would increase my all in EV OPX to ~$0.055/mile.

$120 is less thank the cost of a single oil change on an ICE vehicle.

We operate both ICE and EV vehicles in our household - but the EV is absolutely the go-to vehicle for daily driving and associated expense management. GMC is for towing and other business related activities.... when needed.