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Old 07-27-2021, 09:35 PM   #81
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I think it's only (or primarily) 4Runners with the problem. There are numerous sites that have articles and/or forums on the issue. My 4Runner has 126K miles and I have not noticed any cracked manifold noise. My son's is a 2006 with about 145K and he just noticed the noise this spring. My local repair shop says they have done several replacements, all 4Runners.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:24 AM   #82
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I’ve had two 4 Runners over the years. Ran both from 100,000 mi (when I buy them) to 250,000. I did have to replace the rubber cover on one axle joint. I just follow the maintenance schedule on Toyotas. Very predictable results.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:54 AM   #83
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Iíve had two 4 Runners over the years. Ran both from 100,000 mi (when I buy them) to 250,000. I did have to replace the rubber cover on one axle joint. I just follow the maintenance schedule on Toyotas. Very predictable results.
I have 126K and I've had a few problems. The dashboard cracked around 10 years. Toyota replaced it at no cost to me. I had an O2 sensor go out at about 5 years and I did have to pay for that. A gasket on the transfer case was leaking and I had that replaced when it was 16 or 17 years old. It didn't affect performance but it was leaving spots in the driveway. Otherwise, just regular maintenance.

I had excellent use out of my first Toyota, an '89 pickup (no model name) with a V6. Drove it 193K with the original clutch, smoking it every time to get my boat up the ramp. Sold it to my nephew at 196K. I've bought 4 Toyotas since then, still have 3. (Donated the '91 Camry last summer after 29 years of ownership. It still ran like a top.)

Absolute quality as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't buy anything else. I don't care how ugly they are.
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:09 PM   #84
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Just read about Toyota lobbying to slow electric vehicle adoption because they invested in hydrogen and are far behind the advances in electric. Climate change is not urgent to Toyota. We've owned a lot of Toyotas. Yes, some are dull, but I don't want to fix vehicles anymore and they are not a style statement to me as much as a way to getting around reliably. But reliability isn't what it used to be either and aggressive grills don't do anything positive to me.

Our Tundra feels pretty invincible and if I were to buy a new(er) truck to tow our trailer, I'd probably buy another Tundra. A few yers ago it would not be probably, but certainly. But the prices are outrageous and our ancient Tundra keeps going. For years we assumed a new or new vehicle would be another Toyota, but when we replaced our FJ Cruiser, we found a very well cared for used Subaru at a much better price than a comparable used Rav4 with fewer options. Subaru reliability has been comparable to Toyotas for quite a while. I would really rather count on Toyotas, but between their irresponsibility about climate change and emphasis on style rather than reliability, we decided to look elsewhere. Companies changeóI have been a fan of Apple products for decadesóthey were easy to use and reliable. Neither is true anymore.


Iím no expert but isnít hydrogen a much better source of energy in terms of climate change vs electric(batteries)?
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:21 PM   #85
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Iím no expert but isnít hydrogen a much better source of energy in terms of climate change vs electric(batteries)?
No, not really....

The problem with hydrogen is, where do you get the hydrogen from? Hydrogen likes to be bound up w/ other stuff, you have to get it loose into H2 molecules. A lot of hydrogen production is still using fossil fuels, but even if you're using electrolysis, you are using a lot of energy to get it into a free form to be useable.

Batteries, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, fossil fuels... all have their pluses, minuses, counters, ways to improve, reasons to not... everything comes at a cost of some sort....
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:30 PM   #86
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. Subaru reliability has been comparable to Toyotas for quite a while. .
You know Toyota owns part of Subaru, right? They made Camrys on the line right next to the Subarus in Lafayette, IN for a while when Subaru was having problems with sales.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:04 PM   #87
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You know Toyota owns part of Subaru, right? They made Camrys on the line right next to the Subarus in Lafayette, IN for a while when Subaru was having problems with sales.
Subaru and Toyota longevity are worlds apart.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:20 PM   #88
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Any idea on its payload?
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:03 PM   #89
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Subaru and Toyota longevity are worlds apart.
I have no experience with Subaru. I have bought 5 Toyotas. The '89 pickup I sold in 2003, the '91 Camry I donated in 2020, the '99 Sienna, '04 4Runner and '12 Corolla are all doing well, no plans to sell or trade any of them.

I worked for Toyota for 18 years before I retired. I seriously doubt I would buy any other brand.

I take back what I said about Subaru. My wife was driving an '82 Subaru when I met her. It was plain Jane, only accessory was an AM radio. On I-75 down to Georgia it went 65 up hills, 75 down hills. We went from Louisville to Marietta on a single tank of gas (8 gallons I believe). I bought the '91 LE Camry with a V6 for her, gave the Subaru to her brother. While she had it, never had to replace anything. I guess it was a good car too.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:19 PM   #90
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real costs

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Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
No, not really....

The problem with hydrogen is, where do you get the hydrogen from? Hydrogen likes to be bound up w/ other stuff, you have to get it loose into H2 molecules. A lot of hydrogen production is still using fossil fuels, but even if you're using electrolysis, you are using a lot of energy to get it into a free form to be useable.

Batteries, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, fossil fuels... all have their pluses, minuses, counters, ways to improve, reasons to not... everything comes at a cost of some sort....
Agree, all have + and -. Not using our current plentiful resources is foolish until we have proven and economical alternatives. Electric cars need electricity. While we are closing down fossil fuel, plants left and right, ignoring the superior capability of nuclear, and literally chasing windmills, China is opening a coal plant every month, all in the name of climate change. How high will energy have to climb before Americans realize the global European model is not something to aspire? Our leaders lecture us on our SUVs while flying private jets around the world proclaiming they are saving the world.

Rant over, is it true the new tundra will not have a v8 option only twin turbo six? Hope its not true!
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:58 AM   #91
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Rant over, is it true the new tundra will not have a v8 option only twin turbo six? Hope its not true!

I have to also be cautious of not going on rants myself.....


My understanding is: the Tundra will be a hybrid, where there are electric motors doing all the turning of the wheels, and the engine is powering the motors... thus, not being a V8 isn't a minus in this case... it just needs an engine that's efficient at powering the motors...
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Old 07-29-2021, 08:27 AM   #92
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Last year our two Mercedes with the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel were retired. My 2007 ML320 CDI at 207,000 miles was starting to show the third (every 75,000 miles) occurrence of failing gaskets at the back of the valley on the oil cooler. My wife's E320 CDI at 70,000 was starting to show signs as well. The repair is $3,500 which is more than either vehicle was worth.

My wife acquired a 2020 Limited hybrid RAV4 and absolutely loves it and the 41+ mpg (the diesel E320's best mileage was 38). I acquired a 2020 Platinum v6 Highlander thinking it could tow our 2015 23D International Serenity at 6,069 pounds. The suspension just was not there. I was very disappointed.

In February of 2021, I saw a new silver Land Cruiser 200 series on the dealer's lot. The specs would cover the 23D. Knowing that the occasional 20 mpg I see would be halved at best towing, I ordered an Australian 12.5 gallon auxiliary gas tank and a set of Firestone inside the rear coil springs air bags. Those parts took many months to show up. The tank mounts above the spare tire and has a switch to pump fuel to the main tank when the main tank is about a quarter full.

Yesterday was the big day. The 23D is sporting a new ProPride (retired the Hensley) hitch like on our 2014 31' Classic. The 23D got new 3,600 pound axles with dual brake pucks on the 12" Disc brakes and a 3" lift. I towed it home with the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins using the new adjustable PPP stinger. The Land Cruiser receiver is six inches higher than the trucks, so I have a second stinger configured for the Land Cruiser.

After using the same measurement for the lift arms as on the Ram, the rig was connected for the first time. My guess of 10 mpg proved accurate (10.2) on the level. So the reality will be in the mountains that single digit mpg will prevail. So saying, the RAM gets 11.5 mpg towing the Classic at combined weight of 19,200 pounds so really not much difference in mpg there.

It was suggested by the tank installer (a 20 year Toyota mechanic) that premium gas be used when towing which can be 70 cents higher than regular.

I need to tweak the jack screws some more at the scales, but the total weight combined was 12,780 pounds and all the axle load numbers were within specs with good margins.

This Land Cruiser is the most comfortable tow vehicle I have experienced and the insulation and tuning with the 8 speed transmission makes gear shifting smooth and quiet. Darn shame mine is one of the last ones (built in December 2020) to come to the states.

Toyota sold only about 3,000 LC units in the 2020 model year and about the same for the 2021 model year. That is not enough volume to support the vehicle. Federal law requires seven years of parts so not too worried there. I am 76 and might hopefully still be able to be doing the Airstream adventure in seven years.
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:15 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
Last year our two Mercedes with the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel were retired. My 2007 ML320 CDI at 207,000 miles was starting to show the third (every 75,000 miles) occurrence of failing gaskets at the back of the valley on the oil cooler. My wife's E320 CDI at 70,000 was starting to show signs as well. The repair is $3,500 which is more than either vehicle was worth.

My wife acquired a 2020 Limited hybrid RAV4 and absolutely loves it and the 41+ mpg (the diesel E320's best mileage was 38). I acquired a 2020 Platinum v6 Highlander thinking it could tow our 2015 23D International Serenity at 6,069 pounds. The suspension just was not there. I was very disappointed.

In February of 2021, I saw a new silver Land Cruiser 200 series on the dealer's lot. The specs would cover the 23D. Knowing that the occasional 20 mpg I see would be halved at best towing, I ordered an Australian 12.5 gallon auxiliary gas tank and a set of Firestone inside the rear coil springs air bags. Those parts took many months to show up. The tank mounts above the spare tire and has a switch to pump fuel to the main tank when the main tank is about a quarter full.

Yesterday was the big day. The 23D is sporting a new ProPride (retired the Hensley) hitch like on our 2014 31' Classic. The 23D got new 3,600 pound axles with dual brake pucks on the 12" Disc brakes and a 3" lift. I towed it home with the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins using the new adjustable PPP stinger. The Land Cruiser receiver is six inches higher than the trucks, so I have a second stinger configured for the Land Cruiser.

After using the same measurement for the lift arms as on the Ram, the rig was connected for the first time. My guess of 10 mpg proved accurate (10.2) on the level. So the reality will be in the mountains that single digit mpg will prevail. So saying, the RAM gets 11.5 mpg towing the Classic at combined weight of 19,200 pounds so really not much difference in mpg there.

It was suggested by the tank installer (a 20 year Toyota mechanic) that premium gas be used when towing which can be 70 cents higher than regular.

I need to tweak the jack screws some more at the scales, but the total weight combined was 12,780 pounds and all the axle load numbers were within specs with good margins.

This Land Cruiser is the most comfortable tow vehicle I have experienced and the insulation and tuning with the 8 speed transmission makes gear shifting smooth and quiet. Darn shame mine is one of the last ones (built in December 2020) to come to the states.

Toyota sold only about 3,000 LC units in the 2020 model year and about the same for the 2021 model year. That is not enough volume to support the vehicle. Federal law requires seven years of parts so not too worried there. I am 76 and might hopefully still be able to be doing the Airstream adventure in seven years.
That's a very beautiful setup you have there. I think 2 of you have the aux tank now. You will have to update us on how you like it.

I don't think you will have any issues getting parts for the 200. You have over a decade of 200 series production to pick parts from. I think the LX sells better than the LC so I am sure there will parts available there too.
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:31 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
Last year our two Mercedes with the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel were retired. My 2007 ML320 CDI at 207,000 miles was starting to show the third (every 75,000 miles) occurrence of failing gaskets at the back of the valley on the oil cooler. My wife's E320 CDI at 70,000 was starting to show signs as well. The repair is $3,500 which is more than either vehicle was worth.

My wife acquired a 2020 Limited hybrid RAV4 and absolutely loves it and the 41+ mpg (the diesel E320's best mileage was 38). I acquired a 2020 Platinum v6 Highlander thinking it could tow our 2015 23D International Serenity at 6,069 pounds. The suspension just was not there. I was very disappointed.

In February of 2021, I saw a new silver Land Cruiser 200 series on the dealer's lot. The specs would cover the 23D. Knowing that the occasional 20 mpg I see would be halved at best towing, I ordered an Australian 12.5 gallon auxiliary gas tank and a set of Firestone inside the rear coil springs air bags. Those parts took many months to show up. The tank mounts above the spare tire and has a switch to pump fuel to the main tank when the main tank is about a quarter full.

Yesterday was the big day. The 23D is sporting a new ProPride (retired the Hensley) hitch like on our 2014 31' Classic. The 23D got new 3,600 pound axles with dual brake pucks on the 12" Disc brakes and a 3" lift. I towed it home with the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins using the new adjustable PPP stinger. The Land Cruiser receiver is six inches higher than the trucks, so I have a second stinger configured for the Land Cruiser.

After using the same measurement for the lift arms as on the Ram, the rig was connected for the first time. My guess of 10 mpg proved accurate (10.2) on the level. So the reality will be in the mountains that single digit mpg will prevail. So saying, the RAM gets 11.5 mpg towing the Classic at combined weight of 19,200 pounds so really not much difference in mpg there.

It was suggested by the tank installer (a 20 year Toyota mechanic) that premium gas be used when towing which can be 70 cents higher than regular.

I need to tweak the jack screws some more at the scales, but the total weight combined was 12,780 pounds and all the axle load numbers were within specs with good margins.

This Land Cruiser is the most comfortable tow vehicle I have experienced and the insulation and tuning with the 8 speed transmission makes gear shifting smooth and quiet. Darn shame mine is one of the last ones (built in December 2020) to come to the states.

Toyota sold only about 3,000 LC units in the 2020 model year and about the same for the 2021 model year. That is not enough volume to support the vehicle. Federal law requires seven years of parts so not too worried there. I am 76 and might hopefully still be able to be doing the Airstream adventure in seven years.
Congratulations on finally bringing the rig together! I know you had been meticulously planning and working towards this moment. Glad to hear the setup delivers!

I have to agree that it's a fine pairing, with possibly unmatched ride quality when towing. Chalk it up to the extensive development and tuning Toyota has done with their halo'd Land Cruiser. All the benefits of strong bones and isolation they've incorporated into the vehicle to handle secondary roads, also seems to have benefits for towing stability and ride. The prodigious mass of the 200-series, ample sound deadening treatment, body on frame with tuned body mounts, all combines to nicely manage and isolate towing NVH channeled into the frame.

I find towing is a pleasure rather than work. And my family agrees. Happily coddled in 4-zone A/C comfort for extended tow days with little fatigue.
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Old 07-30-2021, 07:33 AM   #95
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Part of the aux tank install includes a new gasoline filler assembly. The new one has two holes for the pump nozzle. The back one is for the aux tank and the front one is for the main. One listens (while watching the pump meter at 11 gallons of 12) for the whoosh sound of a full tank starting to fill into the filler tube. The main tank fills like normal.

There is a low volume pump for the aux tank since speed it’s not necessary. The flow rate is perhaps two quarts per minute so it takes awhile for the transfer process. One ear is tuned for a clicking sound from the right rear which tells me to shut off the pump as the transfer is done. The four LEDs on the little round gage are no longer green. When the pump is on there is an amber LED. Driving with no trailer, I got 525 miles on one go with both tanks. I was on the level and was seeing 20.2 mpg at 75 on the interstate. I think good practice will be to empty the aux tank at least once per month to keep the premium gas relatively fresh.

Inflating the Firestone air bags from the 5 psi mark (part of the original filler inside of the coil spring was removed so what is left is now pushing into the air pag in the top middle. As the load increases it would push further into the air bag so inflating to the suggested 20 psi provides the extra stiffness to keep the rear of the LC from sagging.

I learned by the pop of the rear rising when disconnecting from the 23D that perhaps the last item on the disconnect check list should be to reduce the 20 psi back to 5 psi to prevent this event from happening.

I have a portable air compressor with a custom power cord plug that plugs into a matching power outlet in the refrigerator compartment that is wired directly to the 315 amp hour lithium battery. Combined with the power cord, there is enough air hose to reach the front tires of the Land Crusier when hooked up if air was necessary for a tire.

The only minor complaint of the LC configuration is that the third row seating folds up along the side of the back compartment. I am giving some consideration to removing the third row as it is not a great seating place for adults and would increase payload by perhaps 100 pounds or more. On the Land Crusier forum, many folks have done that procedure.

Perhaps this weekend, we will load up with the usual stuff we took when towing the 23D with the Mercedes and both of us will drive to the scales to fine tune the lift arms of the PPP.

Due to my extensive mods to the 23D, the tongue weight is just over 900 pounds. It was increased slightly by swapping most the chocks and pads for the stabilizers out of the battery box in order to put the Dexter hydraulic brake pump into the space.

Going to the 12” disc brakes makes an amazing change to what happens when I manually apply the trailer brakes. The amount of stopping power really could now stop the rig if the car brake system failed. The original 10” drum brakes did not have that much brake authority.
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:04 AM   #96
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The only minor complaint of the LC configuration is that the third row seating folds up along the side of the back compartment. I am giving some consideration to removing the third row as it is not a great seating place for adults and would increase payload by perhaps 100 pounds or more. On the Land Crusier forum, many folks have done that procedure.

Perhaps this weekend, we will load up with the usual stuff we took when towing the 23D with the Mercedes and both of us will drive to the scales to fine tune the lift arms of the PPP.

Due to my extensive mods to the 23D, the tongue weight is just over 900 pounds. It was increased slightly by swapping most the chocks and pads for the stabilizers out of the battery box in order to put the Dexter hydraulic brake pump into the space.

Going to the 12Ē disc brakes makes an amazing change to what happens when I manually apply the trailer brakes. The amount of stopping power really could now stop the rig if the car brake system failed. The original 10Ē drum brakes did not have that much brake authority.

Apologize for trimming down, but wanted to touch on these things in the latter half:

A) I like the idea of removing the 3rd row, especially if it's not anything you ever use anyway. I understand that a lot of folks are looking for a 3rd row, but back when I had an old Discovery (those were little folding seats), I picked one w/o so that I wouldn't get volunteered to bring along extra folks. (Of course, I say that, and then one day, leaving a picnic, a bunch of coworkers volunteered my 4Runner's back cargo area to be their seats back to the office, even w/o any seats....)

B) Good idea, once mods are made, to reweigh.

C) Impressive brake upgrade.

There was someone on another Airstream group, was musing the idea of a Land Cruiser for towing a much bigger trailer (a 28' maybe?). Thing is, in your case here, a 23D, and upgraded brakes, I really think you're doing swell. I wouldn't suggest to anyone else to necessarily plan on doing such, you've gone to quite a lot to dial it in, but, I think it's been well thought out.

I hope and think you're happy w/ your results!
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Old 07-30-2021, 12:26 PM   #97
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Yes I know Toyota owns a piece of Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries). The 2 liter engine was co-designed with Toyota and has been used in a couple of Toyota vehicles as well as some Subarus including mine. They increased their share to 20% a year or two ago. Many large corporations in Japan and South Kore's own pieces of each other and that is not tolerated in many other advanced countries. Subaru has greatly improved US sales—200,000 annually 15 years ago to around 700,000 now. They sell far more in the US than anywhere else, including Japan. I suppose you could say I bought another Toyota with a different marque.

As for hydrogen, it is very expensive to extract. I believe it is the most common element in the universe, but as stated above, we don't have close to an infrastructure to produce enough for quite a few years. If it proves to be a good idea, it will take decades to get it ready for large scale use. Electric is here and hybrids make more sense for many of us who live in the west with long distances to travel.

I think Toyota is still a very good brand, but think they have made some bad decisions since the scion of the company, another Toyoda, took over. Other companies are challenging them on reliability and reliability is how Toyota made their name. While not everyone cares how ugly they may be, lots of people buy cars for looks, not reliability. If reliability was most important, lots of car companies would have gone out of business decades ago. Latest Consumer Report says Chrysler products have greatly improved reliability, a major challenge to other truck manufacturers.

Toyota's hope that the 2nd gen. Tundra would be a big player in the market was not realized. They have done little but cosmetic changes in the past 14 years. The truck design is old—transmission needs more gears, better mileage, updated interior may help too. Around the same time they brought out the FJ Cruiser and never improved the things people didn't like and eventually ended production. But other companies are turning our vehicles similar, but with better visibility and rear seat access and they sell. Another opportunity lost.

I am not impressed with the look of the Subaru. All station wagons or SUV's look about the same, so not much choice there. Maybe it is my last car, but if it isn't I have no idea what I would replace it with in several years but it would either be a hybrid or electric. It seems to me the most practical version is the small gas engine generating electricity to feed the batteries and electric motors. Porsche had an electric car around 1920 with an electric motor on each wheel and it seems like a good alternative. I think the Highlander has three electric motors, but I think the gas engine still drive the wheels too, but am unsure. The Highlander has always been priced much too high, especially for the hybrid. The 4Runner has grown in size until it is more like a Landcruiser, but the RAV4 has not replaced it because it is a unibody and does not have the rugged off road features. I wish the 2000 4Runner, updated of course, with a hybrid was available, but it isn't.

As always, I have to create my own car and truck company to get what I want. Anyone want to lend me a couple of billion dollars? Please include a fountain of youth so I don't fall asleep in board meetings.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:50 PM   #98
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For size, comparing the 2004 to the 2021 V6 4WD 4Runner
(I have the V8 but that's not available since 2009)

Wheelbase: same, 109.8"
Overall length: 2021 is about 1" longer
Height (excl. roof rack) 68.9 vs. 71.5 (2021)
Width: 73.8 vs. 75.8 (2021)
Track: 62 vs. 63.2 (2021)

I retired from there in 2013. I'm sure much has changed. Back then design work was mostly done in Japan and there is a reluctance to change. Sales is everything and if sales are good, why change. Back in the 90s when the Camry was barely ahead of the Taurus for a long time, Ford changed the back window and the gap dramatically widened. Camry is the bread and butter for Toyota so they fear making a change to looks that would impact sales.

Toyota focuses on particular market segments, not every segment in the spectrum. They see where the best return is and that's their goal. They will test various segments and that may be where you see some MY changes, but the money making cars will generally see improvements more than dramatic changes.

Now their demographic is changing and what appeals to older buyers doesn't always appeal to youth. Younger buyers tend to buy and sell more often too, a hard lesson for Toyota in Europe. So now you are seeing more gadgets and Internet connections, bells and whistles of all sorts. You are seeing different designs. When Toyota brought out the Scion everyone I knew commented on how ugly they were, people my age. They sold the daylights out of those things.

There are a lot of cultural differences wherever Toyota goes, probably in the US more than anywhere else. They have made some bad decisions (T100, Echo, Crown, early Tundra and more. Toyota tends to under power vehicles to start but you'll notice the Lexus line is not that way. Smaller CC engines have more HP and torque than the same size Toyota engine.

When I went to work for Toyota after working for only US companies I was truly surprised at the differences in philosophy. I have owned Chrysler, GM and AMC vehicles. I like Toyota products and have bought only those since 1989.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:58 PM   #99
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Rich, that is interesting comparing the 2004 to the 2021. I don’t know if the 2000 was the same size as the 2004. The 2021 is bigger and maybe because of styling looks a lot bigger. We also had a 2006 and that was styled more like a contemporary unibody SUV. We found that each one tended to age after 6 or 7 years and show it. We also found a slightly used (600 miles) 2013 FJ and got a great price and the dealer gave us a very good price on the 2006 (104,000 miles). At first the FJ was fine, but the visibility, poor rear seat access and other issues Toyota never solved made my wife tired of it. Then we bought a very clean 2017 Subaru in 2019.

Except for minor problems under warranty, nothing ever went wrong with the 2000. A 1999 Tacoma was the same. We had nine Toyota’s, all truck frames, and they were relatively trouble free, though the newer ones had some more issues than the earlier ones.

It is often wise not to argue with success and that has worked well for Toyota, but you also have to consider new developments plus remember who brung you to the dance. Tomorrow we tow our trailer home with our mighty beast of a 1/2 ton truck. I have considered looking for a late model Tundra and selling the 2007 model but used vehicle prices are too high and new ones are absurd. If something expensive happens to the Tundra is will be cheaper to fix it and keep it. It drives just like new. Over the years it has gotten its share of dings, but by now they don’t matter.

So I guess we have a Subota now.
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Old 07-30-2021, 05:19 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Peter417 View Post
You can fix that.
Reaching way back in this threadÖ

DW ordered a Ford Explorer. We took the 2011 Lexus LS-360L to Lexus to sell to them. Looked around the dealership. Test drove a GX. Way better than the Explorer. And Lexus offered more for the LS than Carmax, plus they knocked off another couple thou.

So, Iím eating my words about not buying a Lexus until the ugly grill goes away. New GX will be delivered next week.

But now need to know where to buy something that covers or replaces than ugly grill.
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