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Old 10-21-2021, 12:36 PM   #1
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Airstream Jackson Center: Why NOT?

This is the computer age. Complicated mathematics is now simple and computed in parts of a second.

Want to know your estimated Taxes? Insert numbers into the blanks and... press... and there the answer, decided by the information you inserted.

We send Astronauts to the Moon, maybe to Mars and also for tourists... but cannot figure out a system to match an Airstream to the hardware to make use of it. Like towing safely. Airstream designed the trailers. They should also know how to best tow THEIR Trailer safely.

So not to hurt ourselves and not Pop Rivets and Rearrange the Interiors.. regularly.

Why Not?

Airstream Model, Year, Weight
Tow Vehicle Model, Year, Weight
Hitch Option Model, Stabilizer Bars (Equalizer or SOB's)
Tire Brand, Information on tire for Load Range D, E

CLICK.... the Airstream System says if this will tow safely with the Trailer, Tow Vehicle, Hitch, Empty Weight

Then adds what extra weight the Trailer can hold with those specifications you provided and selected. If it advised NO... then highlights where you need to make the change(s).

Also would estimate weight on the Ball and what the Vehicle can hold in additional weight.

******
Someone who is into the mathematics of calculating something like this may have a good idea of WHAT is possible.

I am tired of hearing a Mercedes can pull at 30 foot Airstream and a Boat... kind of figuring.

A form could be Fill In The Blanks... and out comes a rating of a percentage of: Poor to Excellent combination.

It all seems to come down to... Liability and the Attorneys crunching pros and cons... which later is decided to Let the Customer Decide and if the combination results in negative results... It is Your Problem... not theirs. Warranty not covered.

I live in a Cave, not a Tree like some of my distant relatives. You are a Human Bean... what do you have to say? Obviously you have a computer at your finger tips. That is a start... now how about the rest?
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Old 10-21-2021, 12:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
This is the computer age. Complicated mathematics is now simple and computed in parts of a second.

We send Astronauts to the Moon, maybe to Mars and also for tourists... but cannot figure out a system to match an Airstream to the hardware to make use of it. Like towing safely. Airstream designed the trailers. They should also know how to best tow safely, so not to hurt ourselves and not Pop Rivets like Corn Pop does regularly.

Why Not?

Airstream Model, Year, Weight
Tow Vehicle Model, Year, Weight
Hitch Option Model, Stabilizer Bars (Equalizer or SOB's)
Tire Brand, Information on tire for style

CLICK.... the Airstream System says if this will tow safely with the Trailer, Tow Vehicle, Hitch, Empty Weight

Then adds what extra weight the Trailer can hold with those specifications you provided and selected. If it advised NO... then highlights where you need to make the change(s).

Also would estimate weight on the Ball and what the Vehicle can hold in additional weight.

******
Someone who is into the mathematics of calculating something like this may have a good idea of WHAT is possible.

I am tired of hearing a Mercedes can pull at 30 foot Airstream and a Boat... kind of figuring.

A form could be Fill In The Blanks... and out comes a rating of a percentage and Poor to Excellent combination.

It all seems to come down to... Liability and the Attorneys crunching pros and cons... which later is decided to Let the Customer Decide and if the combination results in negative results... It is Your Problem... not theirs. Warranty not covered.

I live in a Cave, not a Tree like some of my distant relatives. You are a Human Bean... what do you have to say?
Way too many variables....
1) TV brands and build combinations within brands...now all those brands and build combinations with all the available tires for each!!!! Your are talking about millions of potential outputs.

2) Every consumer loads their trailer differently from each other and
themselves over time

3) All the combinations with all the available hitch brands and models??? Are we over 10 million yet?
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Old 10-21-2021, 12:55 PM   #3
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The question might contain an hint of an answer. A Mercedies can pull an Airstream and a boat. How safe or how far is an opinion. Who would want to get sued for saying so or saying not so?
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Old 10-21-2021, 12:59 PM   #4
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Neanderthal did it... or not?

Airstream: 2019 27FB
Tires: Michelin LT225/75/R16 LR E
Tow Vehicle: F350 Diesel, Standard Bed, 4x4
Tires: Michelin LT275/70/R18 LR E
Equalizer Hitch, 1000#

****** Press Calculate******

Response in less than one second: "Combination is Excellent and your are a Genius Mr. Neanderthal. Maintain tire pressures as provided within service manual."

"Distribute weight of (number) in trailer. Hauling weight (number) in tow vehicle. With full Fresh Water Tank, Propane, two batteries as stock total given for your model."

Start the System: 2000 AD and carry forward. Then each year add new models.

Corvettes do not tow Airstreams.
Shelby Cobras do not tow... anything.
Bicycles have already tried... stopping was the issue.

Major Brands of Tires, Vehicles. If you want to with a 1957 Ford pickup, V8, 3/4 ton... well you figure it out.

If I can figure it out... Engineers at Airstream already know which vehicles are not capable of towing and excluded.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:38 PM   #5
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Actually, something like this could be done. As others have noted, there are lots of variables, but if the end result is to try to give a go/no-go answer to a particular tow vehicle/tow load combination, such is possible.

I am a pilot, have built several airplanes, fly airshows & competitive aerobatics, and flown quite a few airplanes and helicopters and one of the tools we use is one of a number of Excel-based Weight & Balance spreadsheets. For aircraft, weight & balance is **everything**. The problem space is similar to that which the OP describes in the original posting.

I would envision an Excel spreadsheet that takes several inputs:
  • Trailer GVWR
  • Trailer tongue weight
  • Hitch classification (e.g., Class IV, Class V, etc.)
  • TV Maximum Trailer Weight Rating (lbs)
  • Max Tow Vehicle towing capacity (lbs)

These inputs could easily produce the desired go/no-go solution. While not a "legal" document at all, folks could read the info from their tow vehicle data sticker on the driver's side door together with their trailers GVWR, tongue weight, and hitch type...input a few fields...and derive a somewhat close approximation of whether their vehicle/trailer combination is workable. It's a pretty simple coding exercise all things considered.

It could be made more inclusive with more inputs - but would come at the cost of ease-of-use. If the goal is to help the non-technical folks who don't have the experience level of many members, it could be helpful. It's a trivial thing to do, but I'm also sure that JC's lawyers won't let them do it to avoid any potential liability exposure. Maybe if I get bored enough, I'll put one together...
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Old 10-21-2021, 02:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertdEagle View Post
Actually, something like this could be done. As others have noted, there are lots of variables, but if the end result is to try to give a go/no-go answer to a particular tow vehicle/tow load combination, such is possible.



I am a pilot, have built several airplanes, fly airshows & competitive aerobatics, and flown quite a few airplanes and helicopters and one of the tools we use is one of a number of Excel-based Weight & Balance spreadsheets. For aircraft, weight & balance is **everything**. The problem space is similar to that which the OP describes in the original posting.



I would envision an Excel spreadsheet that takes several inputs:


  • Trailer GVWR
  • Trailer tongue weight
  • Hitch classification (e.g., Class IV, Class V, etc.)
  • TV Maximum Trailer Weight Rating (lbs)
  • Max Tow Vehicle towing capacity (lbs)



These inputs could easily produce the desired go/no-go solution. While not a "legal" document at all, folks could read the info from their tow vehicle data sticker on the driver's side door together with their trailers GVWR, tongue weight, and hitch type...input a few fields...and derive a somewhat close approximation of whether their vehicle/trailer combination is workable. It's a pretty simple coding exercise all things considered.



It could be made more inclusive with more inputs - but would come at the cost of ease-of-use. If the goal is to help the non-technical folks who don't have the experience level of many members, it could be helpful. It's a trivial thing to do, but I'm also sure that JC's lawyers won't let them do it to avoid any potential liability exposure. Maybe if I get bored enough, I'll put one together...
Those are all over the internet already. Various formats. None were adequate for me. I made my own. Far too complex for most.
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Old 10-21-2021, 03:18 PM   #7
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Hi

I hate to think that in this day and age "add it all up" is the stumbling block. Reading several billion posts about this, I'm pretty sure the real issue is "decide on what you will have with you".

When you get to things like truck payloads, if you can come up with an app that will actually duplicate the door sticker, that's way better than what the companies that make those trucks can do. Once somebody has the sticker sitting in their driveway on a truck ... it's all over. The *only* task from that point on is to prove they made the right choice.

The same general issue applies to tongue weights. AS says something. What folks actually see is something different. How you address this, I have no idea. ( if you put the box of rocks *here* the tongue weight goes up by 1.237 pounds ....).

Accuracy to at least a couple decimal places is important. We want an app that tells us if we are 1 pound under the limit so we can go on forever in total safety. If we are 1 pound over the limit (obviously) the world will end in the next 10 seconds and it will all be our fault.

Accuracy wise, we also want it to tell us just how many washers ( 5 vs 6 ) will distribute the weight precisely to within a pound of being correct. Those axles need to be properly loaded.

One thing folks never want to hear is that they need to spend more. That there is no universally perfect vehicle that will do everything anybody ever wants to do .... also not popular. So, the app has to be 100% accurate *and* tell them only what they want to hear.

I'm sure we can work this out .....

Enter your vehicle here:

Enter your credit card info here:

Congratulations .... your credit card has been charged. You have the perfect tow vehicle.

We'll have it up by sundown

Bob
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Old 10-21-2021, 04:41 PM   #8
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Air Forums: Member Services $5 - $20

Fill in the Form.
Email it to ME.
Include $5, $10... $20 service Fee.
Results will be returned within 24 hours.
Thank You, ME

Air Forums gets their commission.
ME gets the customer base.
ME figure, if Airstream and SOB Owners need this information, so will Oliver, Arctic Fox, Bowlus and others.

ME sells Business to YOU.
YOU get the customer base.
YOU cover the Commissions.
YOU figure if it works for Airstreams, expand to You and Others to process remotely.
YOU sell each Trailer Manufacturing Corporation the Rights to Use for a flat fee each year.
Thank you, YOU.

YOU tweaked the system to perfection, all automated and sell the Business to THEM. Magazine ads, Website clicks and attending RV Shows and the numbers are run while you wait...

ME and YOU and THEM are all happy.

Then the Airstream Fairy wakes you up and it was a good dream, but required effort, hard work and you would rather be fishing.

Small print below their signature giving these results are dependent on your following the instructions and not liable for any misuse of the information.

The End.
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:14 AM   #9
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Well, not sure about calculating all the variables for towing but the new electric F150 is capable of towing 1.2 million pounds (10 freight cars with 42 ford pickups inside) but the one thing they don't show you in this video demonstration is how / if they stopped.
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:52 AM   #10
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The big problem with having a plug in formula for the right tow vehicle is having to give up the endless debate here on the Forum about that subject.
Might be a little refreshing!
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
Well, not sure about calculating all the variables for towing but the new electric F150 is capable of towing 1.2 million pounds (10 freight cars with 42 ford pickups inside) but the one thing they don't show you in this video demonstration is how / if they stopped.
I believe it is rated at 10,000 lbs.
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Old 10-22-2021, 11:50 AM   #12
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It's a Bird. It's A Trailer. It's a Mistake... $$$$$ coming.

When I was a young Neanderthal, I watched Superman on the black and white tube. "It's a Bird. It's a Plane. No... it's an Airstream glowing from Air Friction, going down a Mountain Pass" Yaaa Hoooo.

What bothered me was the obvious. He looked like Clark Kent and nobody would recognize Superman's or Clark Kent's voice, as the same? Or his hair. Even how someone could go into a restroom, never come out and the window is open? Eye glasses as a disguise? Never thought of that. How about a mask with two rubber bands? Yep... works for me.

This is the majority of Airstream Owners. (Not really but this has to get moving along.)

They see a Bicycle pulling a single axle Airstream in a photograph ... and that ONE photograph makes EVERY vehicle a potential tow vehicle. A VW Bug to a Mac Truck... is all it takes.

I would have liked to have seen the Movie of the Bicycle Towing the Airstream... Stopping. Yikes!

"It's a Plane. It's a Bird. It's"... Super Duty F350 Diesel 4x4, regular bed with Michelin tires!

If you ever had a suit made to fit... there was an expert with a piece of chalk... measuring and making marks for a comfortable fit.

The same with a Tow Vehicle and a Trailer. Taking notes. Some are blind to the fact that there are more Poor Choices for a Tow Vehicle, than there are choices for a Travel Trailer. The 'combo' is not Sold as a Package Deal... for good reason. You would walk off the lot in disgust when the salesman said your vehicle is a Toy in comparison...

You walk the Dealership for a Trailer. Find one that you like, and buy it.

You come to drive off with the Trailer, the Dealer then asks "where is your hitch?"

Oh... $$$$$

Dealer: "Your Vehicle has a 1" sleeve for a Go Cart or a push Lawn Mower."

Oh... $$$$$

Facts are hard to dispute... as well as expensive to fix. But hey, this is make believe. I hope.

Superman was an actor. Sorry to say.

Many individuals believe their Tow Vehicle is just perfect... is also fake. Although your vehicle would be very convenient if it was capable. Premium Gasoline makes no difference. Another FAKE idea. I know. My clunkers were still... clunkers with Regular or Premium.

When the trailer weighs three times or more than the Tow Vehicle, you do not have to be a Scientist to figure it out. Knowledge of Kinetic Energy and Physics take over. Potential Energy when towing is more important than gas mileage of a F350, as the truck can slow down and eventually stop an Airstream in motion.

This is best explained by example... going down a Mountain Pass in Colorado. $$$$ ? Maybe if the brakes quit, smoking.

Going UP... OK, you now are believing in Fake. Reality is going Down. Physics and crunching numbers is important as multiple Truck Driver's are waving at you as you speed down to a Truck Sand Pile Exit.

Adding Air Bags to your tow vehicle is fine with me. You can also haul Air Bags as passengers in the back seat. Yes. They are the ones that are... screaming. Earlier they agreed that your choice in Tow Vehicles was, pretty good?

Flat Land Towing. Ahhhh... Cruise as you wish.

Going Up or Down. Ahhhh. Well, maybe Make a Wish, that you took some better advice, next time.

Mother in Laws... will tell you what they think. Trust their advice. Otherwise, there will be Hell to Pay. In large bills, please. Hell is expensive, these days. And you are towing with it.
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Old 10-22-2021, 12:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m rafferty View Post
The big problem with having a plug in formula for the right tow vehicle is having to give up the endless debate here on the Forum about that subject.
Might be a little refreshing!
******

Much like flushing a toilet and watching which way the water spins?
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Old 10-22-2021, 01:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
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******

Much like flushing a toilet and watching which way the water spins?
Well you'll know whether you are in the Northern or Southern hemisphere!
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Old 10-22-2021, 02:33 PM   #15
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Shame on all you Engineers for trying to over engineer such a simple answer
to a question that has been asked time and time again. We already have all the answers we need printed on a sticker attached to the door jamb of our tow vehicle. Some choose to tow within the parameters of the information, some believe a magical hitch sprinkled with ferry dust will change the numbers, some believe a magical dealer up in maple leaf land can add to those numbers and others just choose to ignore. Maybe all you Engineers need to start working on answers that arenít already printed for us all to use, things like whether itís best to use ST or LT tires. 🤣
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Old 10-22-2021, 02:55 PM   #16
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Obviously TKCamper has spent too much time flushing water while on a Cruise.

Look before you do your business.

What is your Tow Vehicle? This way we can make fun of it. If your wife selected it... well OK. Did you get to choose the tires? Do you have a fuzzy dog on the dashboard and the eyes blink when you activate your turn signals? I liked the Hula Girl... but she was stolen.

LT tires are best if you do not want blow outs. If you like new tires frequently, ST.

What I like about LT Tires is that I like to pick pretty rocks out of the THICK tread while attached to my trailer.

The ST tires, you can pick the rocks out of the strips of tread on the table inside the Airstream. Which is great, as you can listen to the radio.

I had an Airstream Fairy that picked my Equalizer Hitch. It is great. The hitch. The Airstream Fairy did not give me the trailer. That I paid for.

The 'Oracle of Delphi' told me to buy an Airstream, but not a 30 foot. I may have to return and ask WHY.

Check your Tow Vehicle's engine oil frequently while towing.

Lots of LT tires in Wyoming. I am loading up a few, just in case I find some willing customers. Business was slow in Rawlins, Wyoming that day. The balloons were to cheer people up.

NEXT?
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:12 PM   #17
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Great thread. If you have never experience violent sway your perceptions will be different. Try going down a mountain road from the continental divide in a pickup with a tandem trailer fully loaded, but the cargo poorly distributed with not enough weight on the tongue. The first thrill is that above 35-45 mph the trailer starts to sway. Yes, it is uncomfortable, but the worst is just ahead unless you can slow down. Now, that is a problem if you don't have trailer brakes. If you apply TV brakes it must be done when the TV/TT are in perfect alignment and going strait down the road. Otherwise, the sway will be abated, but you will be headed for a ditch. With very careful handling the driver was able to recover, but this passenger was scared silly and cannot recall what corrective action was actually used. The rest of the trip down the mountain was driven at 35mph or slower at my insistence.
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:59 PM   #18
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ST- Short Trailer Tire / LTX Long Trailer Xtra good tire

The 2006 23 foot had 14 inch ST Tires, Load Range C, Marathons. Had new tires frequently until I replaced them with another brand of 14 inch. Airstream 23 footers now have 15 inch ST Tires. A big improvement. The tires. The 23 foot Safari Airstream was an excellent Trailer in 2006. Just stuck with 14 inch Boat Tires.

When I sold the trailer, Tow Max 14 inch ST tires. Maxis were good as well.

My 27 foot International has LT 16 inch Long Trailer tires, Load Range E, Michelins.

My F350 has Long Truck X (LTX) tires. Perfect for a Tree Swing when worn out.

I would show a Blow Out 16 inch Michelin, but never had one. Curbing does not count on the curb side. We need chunks. The 18 wheeler's leave chunks for you to dodge on the Interstates. This is why Sway Control is important to have.

In the UK... you have Tyres. What is up with that? "My tyre blew dust, mate?"

To avoid tearing out the bottom of your trailer, avoid Truck tyre parts and Elk.

I could add Deer, Moose, Raccoons, Downed Pine Trees, 75 pound chunks of Ice fallen off an 18 wheeler, spare tires... rock slides... maybe you have some to add. I just finished fixing our vacuum cleaner. If I did not fix it... Nancy was going to buy a new one. Cannot have that... the Hoover is great. Uses the same parts as some Airstreams... bad screws.

Before I become Senile. Missouri... Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road. WOW. Camp next to someone you do not like. They will be gone within 60 minutes. Start counting... 59, 58 Works for me. I am a Neanderthal... what is your reason?
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Old 10-22-2021, 04:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
Airstream: 2019 27FB
Tires: Michelin LT225/75/R16 LR E
Tow Vehicle: F350 Diesel, Standard Bed, 4x4
Tires: Michelin LT275/70/R18 LR E
Equalizer Hitch, 1000#

****** Press Calculate******

Response in less than one second: "Combination is Excellent and your are a Genius Mr. Neanderthal. Maintain tire pressures as provided within service manual."

"Distribute weight of (number) in trailer. Hauling weight (number) in tow vehicle. With full Fresh Water Tank, Propane, two batteries as stock total given for your model."

Start the System: 2000 AD and carry forward. Then each year add new models.

Corvettes do not tow Airstreams.
Shelby Cobras do not tow... anything.
Bicycles have already tried... stopping was the issue.

Major Brands of Tires, Vehicles. If you want to with a 1957 Ford pickup, V8, 3/4 ton... well you figure it out.

If I can figure it out... Engineers at Airstream already know which vehicles are not capable of towing and excluded.

Hmmmm, Ray, ... guess we just dreamed this ...


















So, it is not a mercedes ... gotcha ... nope, we do not tow with the Corvette ... but the picture was fun!
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Old 10-22-2021, 06:28 PM   #20
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This is a Tough One... but I will try

[QUOTE=mefly2;2549234]Hmmmm, Ray, ... guess we just dreamed this ...
******
I am deeply embarrassed that I was Tail Gating your Corvette last week.

I did see that someone had a camera.

Otherwise I would have passed you. Solar Powered Airstream... no pollution and fast.

If you need help getting out of the Vette... just flag me down next time I am in town.

My last Corvette was a 1969 Silver 427 three deuce, side exhaust in 1975. At 7200 feet, I disconnected linkage and had a two deuce coupe. Sold it for $4,500. Did not need to use the Heater. The floor board did a fine job. Nice photo. Some people have a Sense of Humor and use it. We need more. Do you have a snow plow attachment for the front?

The Radio was all Electric. Rode like an Airstream.
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