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Old 12-27-2020, 02:52 PM   #41
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
I don't have sag with my F150 with my WDH. A cheaper solution to consider than airbags is a roadmaster suspension system. Also more durable.

I was going to put on airbags, but the accessory parts guy said go with roadmaster. That's what he uses. And he could have sold me airbags for twice the price.
AB & RM totally not needed on a proper rig with a proper setup, just say'n.

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Old 12-27-2020, 03:31 PM   #42
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Thank you, all, for your feedback. In response to some of the suggestions, I have weighed in at CAT scales several times. This what tipped me off to the payload issue. Tongue weight on the 23 is about 600, passenger weight in the truck is about 300. Add the dog, golf clubs and a few other items and we approach the limit of the 1500 quickly. We are significantly under GVWR, GCWR, and GAWR. Payload is the issue. We use blue ox for weight distribution and sway control.

I’m reluctant to shift weight to the trailer for two reasons: an increase in tongue weight just shifts the problem toward the rear and more weight behind the trailer axles is asking for an unstable ride. I think having the weight over the rear axle of the tow vehicle is a safer solution than trying to juggle adding weight to the trailer.

I think the 2500 is the answer for that additional 500 lbs.
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Old 12-27-2020, 04:21 PM   #43
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrauch View Post

I’m reluctant to shift weight to the trailer for two reasons: an increase in tongue weight just shifts the problem toward the rear and more weight behind the trailer axles is asking for an unstable ride. I think having the weight over the rear axle of the tow vehicle is a safer solution than trying to juggle adding weight to the trailer.

I think the 2500 is the answer for that additional 500 lbs.
Explain how increasing TW adds weight behind the trailer axles. �� A nose down tongue remove much more.
That is the reason you want a LEVEL rig when the WD is set properly.
WD transfers weight the to AS axle/s and the TV steering axle.

Bob
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Rrauch View Post
We are significantly under GVWR, GCWR, and GAWR. Payload is the issue.
Something seems off here. There is nothing magical about “payload.” It’s just the difference between the truck’s GVWR and its curb weight measured at the factory. If you are “significantly under GVWR” then you should be fine on payload.
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Old 12-27-2020, 05:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Rrauch View Post
We are significantly under GVWR, GCWR, and GAWR.
If you're under all of these weight ratings I would concentrate on dialing in the WD hitch and roll on. I wouldn't sweat the payload issue so much unless you plan on loading up significantly more than you do now. Try it for awhile and see how the truck handles the load. If the truck squats too much I would opt for the airbag assist.
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:59 AM   #46
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In the early Airstream days when Wally was running the caravans ( watch the movie Aluminarium) when it comes out late next year. You will see what hundreds and hundreds of Airstreams were being towed with all over the world. I don't think that they obsessed with payload rating as we are today.
I agree with one thing that is big brakes are good on both the TV and the trailer
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Old 12-30-2020, 11:23 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rrauch View Post
Has anyone added payload capacity to a RAM 1500? Is it possible to modify the suspension to get, say, 500 lbs. additional capacity? The RAM 1500 has a rated payload capacity of about 1,100 lbs. Rather than moving up to a 2500 is there an alternative?
My 2019 Ram 1500 has a payload capacity of 1524 lb as per the tag on the drivers door frame?
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Old 12-30-2020, 11:25 AM   #48
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Ram 1500 should tow great a 23 foot globetrotter. Love the globetrotter model .What year is your Ram 1500 truck? Why / what do you need 500 more capacity for ?
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Old 12-30-2020, 11:47 AM   #49
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As many here have said, be wary of exceeding your GVWR or stated ratings. That said, you can improve your experience towing or carrying heavy weight. I'm far from an expert, but I've had good results combining firestone airbags and adjustable damping shocks (Rancho 9000). For a long time I carried a 1200lb+ Four Wheel Camper on a F-250, which was technically not an issue by the numbers, but the experience was massively improved by airing up the firestone air springs and dialing up the shock damping. Adjusting this setup worked well for trailering also.
There's a ton of info about folks doing these types of mods on the Wander the West forum, dedicated to truck mounted campers, but the info is translatable to trailering. Take a look at the Timbren springs (less to fail than airbags) and some adjustable shocks, or having some custom springs made and custom shocks built specifically for your setup ($$$).
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by jim6090 View Post
I'm so frustrated with my 2020 Ram. Website says payload 1840 lbs for Limited 1500. Thats what i based my purchasing decision. Actual sticker says 1086 lbs. No relief from Ram. They are straight up dishonest on their website.

New Ford F-250 coming in February.
I guess you didn't use the vin number look up feature on the Ram web site when you bought your 2020. My dealer and I plugged in the vin numbers for every one of the trucks I was considering. The vin check takes into account the engine, transmission, axle ratio, bed length, cab size and trim level.

I found that buy opting for the 3.92 axle ration with the full tow package, my 2020 Longhorn 5.7 hemi crew cab 4x4 with 5'7" bed and 4x4 provided the best mix of luxury and tow capacity. Yes, the ratings for a similarly configured Tradesman was higher, but we wanted the luxury of the Longhorn. Opting for the 3.92 axle ration versus the 3.21 significantly increased the tow ratings of two otherwise identical trucks.. My truck cargo capacity is 1681.59 lb and has a tow rating of 11, 842.51 lbs.

Sounds like your salesman wasn't too well informed about trucks and didn't use all the tools available to him or her.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim6090 View Post
I'm so frustrated with my 2020 Ram. Website says payload 1840 lbs for Limited 1500. Thats what i based my purchasing decision. Actual sticker says 1086 lbs. No relief from Ram. They are straight up dishonest on their website.

New Ford F-250 coming in February.
I guess you didn't use the vin number look up feature on the Ram web site when you bought your 2020. My dealer and I plugged in the vin numbers for every one of the trucks I was considering. The vin check takes into account the engine, transmission, axle ratio, bed length, cab size and trim level.

I found that buy opting for the 3.92 axle ratio with the full tow package, my 2020 Longhorn 5.7 hemi crew cab 4x4 with 5'7" bed and 4x4 provided the best mix of luxury and tow capacity. Yes, the ratings for a similarly configured Tradesman was higher, but we wanted the luxury of the Longhorn. Opting for the 3.92 axle ratio versus the 3.21 significantly increased the tow ratings of two otherwise identical trucks.. My truck cargo capacity is 1681.59 lb and has a tow rating of 11, 842.51 lbs.

Sounds like your salesman wasn't too well informed about trucks and didn't use all the tools available to him or her.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:23 PM   #52
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawus"
 
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^
At the GM store it's called a VISS check.

Bob
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The second page will have all the option codes.
As will a tag in the glove box.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:45 PM   #53
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Payload Capacity

This is a section of RV life article someone previously shared:

The last question is payload capacity. Most of the standard half-tons list their payload capacity between 1500 and 1800 pounds. Generally, this number is pretty well equal to the available capacity on the rear axle. Recently, I weighed a Ram 1500 – the rear axle dry weight was 2250 pounds and it is rated at 3900 pounds, so in theory you could add 1650 pounds to the rear axle before overloading it. Fuel is going to put a couple of hundred pounds on the rear axle, so you wind up with close to the 1430 pounds of payload listed for the truck. 1430 pounds is also pretty close to the difference between the base weight of the pickup (5320 pounds) and the list GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 6,800 pounds.

So in theory, you should never carry more than 1430 pounds in this truck… or should you? The front and rear axles are both rated to carry 3900 pounds so the truck can easily carry 7800 pounds if you could distribute the weight to the front wheels. Chrysler knows that this is impossible, since all the carrying space is at the back, with quite a lot of it actually behind the rear axle. However, when we tow a travel trailer we can carry any weight behind the axle because we use a properly set-up weight distributing hitch that transfers some of the weight to the front axle.

The Ram 1500 described above was connected to a 33’ travel trailer that has 1,075 pounds of hitch weight. The truck had the customer’s normal gear in the box and 3 adult passengers. On the road the combination drove very nicely, with no feeling of being overloaded and the truck was perfectly level. The rear axle of the truck was carrying 3780 pounds and the front axle carried 3660. So neither axle was overloaded, and the tires were rated for 4370 pounds per axle so they had plenty of leeway. So even though the truck was 640 pounds over its GVWR nothing was overloaded, and the truck was stable with plenty of leeway on any item that matters.
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Old 12-30-2020, 02:28 PM   #54
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Problem with 1/2 tons is the limiting factor usually is the semi-float axle rating, probably somewhere around 3900#. Not easy or cost effective to do an axle swap. Putting tires/wheels on that exceed this doesn’t accomplish much except make your wallet lighter. I guess that helps a bit?

With HD trucks the limiting factor is usually tires/wheels which can be easily upgraded. The axle rating on HD trucks is typically somewhere between 10,000#-13,000# depending on year/model. It’s easy to find 18” and 20” tires rated at 4080# (2x = 8160#) and higher if you go to 19.5” wheels.

Axle rating (what many folks really mean when they say “pay load”) is what drives Folks to an HD truck when things get heavy. There is a much greater “Weight” safety factor with HD trucks.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:25 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrauch View Post
Thank you, all, for your feedback. In response to some of the suggestions, I have weighed in at CAT scales several times. This what tipped me off to the payload issue. Tongue weight on the 23 is about 600, passenger weight in the truck is about 300. Add the dog, golf clubs and a few other items and we approach the limit of the 1500 quickly. We are significantly under GVWR, GCWR, and GAWR. Payload is the issue. We use blue ox for weight distribution and sway control.

I’m reluctant to shift weight to the trailer for two reasons: an increase in tongue weight just shifts the problem toward the rear and more weight behind the trailer axles is asking for an unstable ride. I think having the weight over the rear axle of the tow vehicle is a safer solution than trying to juggle adding weight to the trailer.

I think the 2500 is the answer for that additional 500 lbs.
If you are under the gvwr and GAWR....you are fine...good to go..
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:39 PM   #56
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Payload

I assume you must be talking about a truck you already own.
Here are ways you can add payload to any truck:
1. A two wheel drive truck weighs about 400 pounds less that a four wheel drive due to the transfer case weight. Buy a truck with two wheel drive a a locking positive traction rear end. Nine times out of ten you don’t need a four wheel drive for towing.
2. The Four F150 aluminum body is 500 to 600 pounds lighter than the Chevy or Dodge so you gain 500 to 600 pounds of payload.
If you have a 36 gallon fuel tank only fill it to 25 gallons and you’ll pickup about 88 more pounds of payload.
3. If you have a Cummins diesel that engine might weigh 300 more pounds than the hemi or any gas engine. You can pickup 200 to 300 extra pounds of payload.
4. If you carry totes buy smaller ones. People have a tendency to carry more stuff when containers are bigger. It’s like a bigger suitcase.
5. If you haven’t bought your trailer yet, try to pick the one with the lightest tongue weight. Remember you add the tongue weight to your payload amount. I know, people try to convince me that you can shift the weight back to the trailer axle with a load distribution hitch, but no one can come up with an amount of pounds.
Good luck on your project.

Danny Sapp, Safety Consultant
Safe Towing Workshops Across The US
Check out my LinkedIn Page and follow me.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
if you are under gawr....you are fine...good to go..:d
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:51 PM   #58
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I assume you must be talking about a truck you already own.
Here are ways you can add payload to any truck:
1. A two wheel drive truck weighs about 400 pounds less that a four wheel drive due to the transfer case weight. Buy a truck with two wheel drive a a locking positive traction rear end. Nine times out of ten you don’t need a four wheel drive for towing.
Until you need it.
2. The Four F150 aluminum body is 500 to 600 pounds lighter than the Chevy or Dodge so you gain 500 to 600 pounds of payload.
If you have a 36 gallon fuel tank only fill it to 25 gallons and you’ll pickup about 88 more pounds of payload.
Not true. Ford took the weight out of the body and put it in the chassis. Our 20 gasser weighs more than our previous diesel!
3. If you have a Cummins diesel that engine might weigh 300 more pounds than the hemi or any gas engine. You can pickup 200 to 300 extra pounds of payload.
4. If you carry totes buy smaller ones. People have a tendency to carry more stuff when containers are bigger. It’s like a bigger suitcase.
Meh...get the right truck and bring what you want. Weighing every toothpick you pack? Who wants to travel like that?
5. If you haven’t bought your trailer yet, try to pick the one with the lightest tongue weight. Remember you add the tongue weight to your payload amount.
I think you mean subtract tw from payload.
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Old 12-30-2020, 07:40 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnsapp View Post
1. A two wheel drive truck weighs about 400 pounds less that a four wheel drive due to the transfer case weight. Buy a truck with two wheel drive a a locking positive traction rear end. Nine times out of ten you don’t need a four wheel drive for towing.
2. The Four F150 aluminum body is 500 to 600 pounds lighter than the Chevy or Dodge so you gain 500 to 600 pounds of payload.

1) My previous Sierra, I went the 2wd & a rear locker route: got stuck twice because of it, needing some pull from the front (not when I was towing). Later on when you want to replace it, it'd be a lot harder to sell off if it's 2wd. You don't need it all the time, but, when you need it, you need 4wd.
And, interestingly.... my previous 2wd Sierra had the 5.3, could tow 6800lbs. My current 4x4 Sierra, also a 5.3, can tow 9800lbs, and gets better gas mileage.

2) If you're trying to watch the weight that way, GMC now has a carbon-fiber bed, would be even lighter than an aluminum one....
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:16 PM   #60
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Similarly, my 1500 Sierra is an AT4, and its payload is 1547lb, rear axle is 3800, tongue weight is listed at 980lbs to equal 10% of its trailer rating of 9800lbs.
And yet, if you have the 6.2L engine then your rear axle is the same as the one in the max tow package and is capable of a 4200lbs rating with the rest of the changes (cooling, springs, shocks). The sticker on your hitch itself will tell you it is rated to 12000/1200. Lots of different variables here but it is pretty clear the soft ride of the AT4 suspension is the limiting factor here (the brakes are the same between max tow and AT4 as well).
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