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Old 10-09-2018, 08:09 PM   #241
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Well, free advice is always worth the price. :-/

If you do decide to keep your currant rig, I would be interested to hear how it does towing up and down the Rockys in Summer, or if you are getting shoved around by the wind wall from big rigs passing you on the freeways.


Hello! Just letting you know the report is in. It’s at the end of the thread. Now I can speak from my experience [emoji4]

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Old 10-09-2018, 11:21 PM   #242
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Great trip report, thanks for posting it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:05 AM   #243
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Great trip report, thanks for posting it.


Thanks for the feedback! Hope it helps those who are looking for alternatives
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:10 AM   #244
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Awesome report, thanks! I totally agree with the below. I was totally newbee when I picked up the trailer in Indiana and towed to California. I have two years / 14k towing miles with my Jayco. It tows so well that when I was considering changing the car to Mercedes GLS I was concerned that the towing experience would suffer. Contacted Andy Thomson to discuss and I am still in X5.



Any Airstream should tow better than SOB, so I can imagine that you need to very comfortable with your combo. I always like to see SUV towing a large trailer on the road





Thanks for your positive feedback. I also appreciate your comments on this thread from earlier. Did Andy think that the Mercedes would have worked too or did he like the X5 better?
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:32 AM   #245
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He mentioned that only Cayenne GTS outhandles BMW X5, but MB is fine. Andy has MB GL in his fleet as well.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:01 PM   #246
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Steve and Deb

Glad you two didn't drink the Kool-aid from the initial postings on this thread from the doom and gloom pick-up crowd. They mean well, but very opinionated.

Now that you're firmly in the SUV crowd and have the experience to prove it, I hope others will enjoy this thread and consider the same when choosing their TV.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

PS Glad you had a great trip!
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:21 PM   #247
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Acura MDX towing

Glad this worked out for you. I just completed a 2800 mi trip to Monterey in my RAM 2500, and towed a 27 FB. There was one short section of 16% grade where I was glad I had the diesel, and lots of passes and climbs including Crater Lake, Siskyous, and near Lake Almanor and Monterey where oil temps would climb as high as 225 degrees. Gas mileage never went below 11.8 avg and many flat portions exceeded 14.6 mpg, overall was 13.8 mpg, all hand calculated. The fastest we pulled up a grade was 75 mph and avg was about 65 mph, slower in CA (I have 16” Sendels with Michelin LTX tires). With a 32 gallon tank we could easily manage 400 mile days with extra reserve.

Clearly an MDX can make it, as can my tow rig with too much capacity. We hardly noticed the 27 and loved having extra power and not worrying about grades. Personally, having towed with a Pilot, which is essentially a stripped down MDX, I have no interest in repeating that experience. If you tow up passes, watch your oil and tranny temps and be prepared to change fluids twice as much as standard intervals suggest. But as your post shows, it can be done as long as you slow down, take your time, and fill up often.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:28 PM   #248
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No everyone needs 400 miles range, i.e. no everyone has bladder big enough for 6 hours driving.

Have you towed with Hensley / ProPride when you were using Pilot? If not, what exactly you are trying to compare?

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(...) With a 32 gallon tank we could easily manage 400 mile days with extra reserve.

Clearly an MDX can make it, as can my tow rig with too much capacity. We hardly noticed the 27 and loved having extra power and not worrying about grades. Personally, having towed with a Pilot, which is essentially a stripped down MDX, I have no interest in repeating that experience. But as your post shows, it can be done as long as you slow down and fill up often.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:04 AM   #249
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We are still towing our 2015 23D International Serenity that scales 6,029 pounds with our 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel. We see over 16 mpg on the flats and 12 in the mountains. We currently have nearly 185,000 miles on the ML.

In October of 2012, I towed the empty new 2013 25FB International Serenity home to Phoenix from the selling dealership in Los Angle with the ML using a Hensley Arrow hitch (that was transferred to the 23D later). When loaded to 6,900 pounds for camping, the ML generated straining sounds and I elected to acquire a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins which is now towing our 2014 31' Classic at 9,200 pounds.

I had the ML receiver modified at CanAm in October of 2012 and they also shortened the Hensley stinger and put a pre-load bend in it.

So we experience both worlds of towing with no issues. The Ram can tow at 65 mph max as that is the peak torque point at 1,650 rpm and the ML tows at 55 which it can maintain even going up the mountains in 4th and 3,000 rpm. Despite the smaller engine, our required trip through the Salt River Canyon on many trips driving the ML and 23D we go into 2nd gear on the descents (posted speed limit of 35 mph) and the engine braking allows for no brake pedal use.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:17 AM   #250
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We are still towing our 2015 23D International Serenity that scales 6,029 pounds with our 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel. We see over 16 mpg on the flats and 12 in the mountains. We currently have nearly 185,000 miles on the ML.

In October of 2012, I towed the empty new 2013 25FB International Serenity home to Phoenix from the selling dealership in Los Angle with the ML using a Hensley Arrow hitch (that was transferred to the 23D later). When loaded to 6,900 pounds for camping, the ML generated straining sounds and I elected to acquire a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins which is now towing our 2014 31' Classic at 9,200 pounds.

I had the ML receiver modified at CanAm in October of 2012 and they also shortened the Hensley stinger and put a pre-load bend in it.

So we experience both worlds of towing with no issues. The Ram can tow at 65 mph max as that is the peak torque point at 1,650 rpm and the ML tows at 55 which it can maintain even going up the mountains in 4th and 3,000 rpm. Despite the smaller engine, our required trip through the Salt River Canyon on many trips driving the ML and 23D we go into 2nd gear on the descents (posted speed limit of 35 mph) and the engine braking allows for no brake pedal use.


I really like the engine brake as well. Keeping it in 2nd gear and letting the rpm’s go to 4000-4500 rpm’s works well for most grades so that we don’t go into the curves too fast. That is also the rpm I use for climbing. I know that sounds high, but our redline is 6800. I owned a 1994 Acura integra GSR with 8000 rpm redline so I’m somewhat used go hearing the engine tun higher, The VTEC give more torque at higher rpm’s. While I may be at 40 mph going up a steep mountain pass, I can feel comfortable going 80-85 mph on smooth, level highways. Did you have any sway with either set-up? What differences did you notice as far as turning radius
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:45 AM   #251
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Glad this worked out for you. I just completed a 2800 mi trip to Monterey in my RAM 2500, and towed a 27 FB. There was one short section of 16% grade where I was glad I had the diesel, and lots of passes and climbs including Crater Lake, Siskyous, and near Lake Almanor and Monterey where oil temps would climb as high as 225 degrees. Gas mileage never went below 11.8 avg and many flat portions exceeded 14.6 mpg, overall was 13.8 mpg, all hand calculated. The fastest we pulled up a grade was 75 mph and avg was about 65 mph, slower in CA (I have 16” Sendels with Michelin LTX tires). With a 32 gallon tank we could easily manage 400 mile days with extra reserve.

Clearly an MDX can make it, as can my tow rig with too much capacity. We hardly noticed the 27 and loved having extra power and not worrying about grades. Personally, having towed with a Pilot, which is essentially a stripped down MDX, I have no interest in repeating that experience. If you tow up passes, watch your oil and tranny temps and be prepared to change fluids twice as much as standard intervals suggest. But as your post shows, it can be done as long as you slow down, take your time, and fill up often.


We weren’t trying to prove anything with towing with the MDX but when my son asked what was my favorite vehicle I said “ one that is paid for”. The MDX was paid off and I also used whole life insurance money to buy the Safari. I say I reinvested it after i decided the extra money should be used for living, not dying. So I knew I would not be going up mountain passes at 55, but I was surprised how stable the rig felt at higher speeds. I would be going 70-75 sometimes and would forget I had a TT behind me. 80+ mph through Utah’s salt lake basin. So we didn’t really slow down. The MDX is more of a sports car and seemed to like to run. Apparently top speed is around 130.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:11 AM   #252
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Acura MDX towing

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No everyone needs 400 miles range, i.e. no everyone has bladder big enough for 6 hours driving.



Have you towed with Hensley / ProPride when you were using Pilot? If not, what exactly you are trying to compare?


It wasn’t an issue of stopping or not for comfort as we did hit rest stops. It was mostly about range, which is a big issue in rural parts of central Oregon and N Cal where a town has one gas station. We could gas up in urban areas where diesel was cheap and avoid the 40-60 cents per gallon upcharge in rural gas stops, or the risk in towns like Fossil which has one gas pump, which sometimes closes.

On the Pilot as a tow rig, the issue is power and payload, less so about stability (though the Pilot was less stable with a heavy trailer and full family and luggage). They are only rated at 500lbs hitch tongue weight for towing, and payload is pretty minimal. The V6 is not particularly suited for hills, let alone passes, and we have plenty of those in the PNW. I don’t like being the guy doing 45 up a steep pass while all manner of cars and semis are crowding me.

As a daily driver, the Pilot was great although avg mpg was never better than 19mpg, same as my Ram diesel when not towing. We owned two Pilots to haul tons of kids, dogs, sports gear and loved it. Switched over to a 3 series diesel BMW wagon last year, 40 avg mpg, and while it won’t haul lots of people and stuff compared to the Pilot, it is a superior daily driver with plenty of power and torque and handling.

If you can pay for a diesel truck, I believe that is the way to go, but if your needs and wallet are met by using what you have, nothing wrong with that. It’s about the adventure, not the gear, in the end.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:36 PM   #253
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Well, I believe there are many guys who can afford a diesel truck, but do not want to go this route. I need a good handling in order to be happy behind the wheel.

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(...)

If you can pay for a diesel truck, I believe that is the way to go, but if your needs and wallet are met by using what you have, nothing wrong with that. It’s about the adventure, not the gear, in the end.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:06 PM   #254
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To be clear - my RAM does a wonderful job handling a 27FB. It has a long wheelbase which contributes to a well controlled ride, it’s heavy duty brakes and exhaust make slowing down a breeze, especially downhill. It won’t win slalom contests, but it can control the trailer well. I took the trailer down CA 70, a 100 mile long twisty highway with plenty of corners and elevation gains and my passenger was impressed by its handling. Most times we were slowing down for the cars in front of us rather than holding up traffic.

For a tow rig, my priorities are payload, power, braking, handling, and efficiency. The RAM checks all of these.

The Pilot checks none of them. For handling it feels pushed along by the trailer rather than in command. I would drive slower and the rig always felt like it was stressed at regular highway speeds. Brakes were ok but not near what the HD brakes could do with the exhaust brakes in aid.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:41 PM   #255
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That's fine, everybody has his own definitions of "good handling". Good that we have choices...
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Old 10-12-2018, 02:56 PM   #256
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Just for the record: I will GLADLY follow you up a "steep mounting climb doing 40 mph".

So happy to read your final posts on your big trip and how happy you were with the whole experience towing with the MDX. This thread turned out quite informative. Happy travels!
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:21 PM   #257
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Just for the record: I will GLADLY follow you up a "steep mounting climb doing 40 mph".

So happy to read your final posts on your big trip and how happy you were with the whole experience towing with the MDX. This thread turned out quite informative. Happy travels!


Thanks for the supportive comments! Safe travels to all. And to all the owners of Honda Ridgelines, Pilots, Odysseys - we share the same platform(almost). Begin your adventure!

If anyone wants any more info about our rigs performance, our experience, or has a comment feel free to post.

Sincerely,

Steve and Debbie
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:06 AM   #258
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The Pilot checks none of them. For handling it feels pushed along by the trailer rather than in command. I would drive slower and the rig always felt like it was stressed at regular highway speeds. Brakes were ok but not near what the HD brakes could do with the exhaust brakes in aid.[/QUOTE]


I thought I would comment on this point as it may be helpful to others.

I am often concerned when people take half my advice. The experience you had with handling with the Pilot is to be expected. A Pilot can be very stable with a conventional weight distribution hitch but only if it is precisely setup with a stronger receiver. You will never get proper weight transfer with a stock bolt on hitch as it will twist before transferring weight properly.

The good thing is that a Pilot tells you when it is wrong and if you want you can fix it to be very stable. The ironic thing is that a proper setup is just as important on a large truck maybe more so but the truck tends to hide the instability, it is not communicative. The false sense of security can be risky.

So even if you have traded to the large truck dial the hitch in as if you had a Pilot. Feel free to send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send instructions on how to do it.

Andy.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:00 PM   #259
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The Pilot checks none of them. For handling it feels pushed along by the trailer rather than in command. I would drive slower and the rig always felt like it was stressed at regular highway speeds. Brakes were ok but not near what the HD brakes could do with the exhaust brakes in aid.

I thought I would comment on this point as it may be helpful to others.

I am often concerned when people take half my advice. The experience you had with handling with the Pilot is to be expected. A Pilot can be very stable with a conventional weight distribution hitch but only if it is precisely setup with a stronger receiver. You will never get proper weight transfer with a stock bolt on hitch as it will twist before transferring weight properly.

The good thing is that a Pilot tells you when it is wrong and if you want you can fix it to be very stable. The ironic thing is that a proper setup is just as important on a large truck maybe more so but the truck tends to hide the instability, it is not communicative. The false sense of security can be risky.

So even if you have traded to the large truck dial the hitch in as if you had a Pilot. Feel free to send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send instructions on how to do it.

Andy.[/QUOTE]



Hi Andy,

Thank you for clarifying that important aspect. I found this to be absolutely true. We had purchased our AS in Traverse City Michigan and towed it with our MDX to Can Am, about a 320 mile drive. While we were able to tow, it felt and looked very different after Can Am’s added reinforcement to the receiving hitch and then re-doing the set-up. Our rig felt more balanced and stable. While it is true that I can “feel” the trailer, I believe that is a good thing. I could tell if the trailer was bouncing too much due to overinflated tires, if the trailer braking needed adjusting , or if I needed to drive slower depending upon road conditions. That was helpful in towing in heavy rains, dirt roads, twisty roads,etc. Our rig felt like one unit and I believe trailer awareness is important, at least in detecting instability.

I actually saw one example of this. While we were driving through Washington a large pickup towing a large ultralight TT blew past us on the highway while we were going 65 mph. He then merged back in front of me a little too close and somewhat aggressively. I saw his trailer do a little sway with his high speed lane change. The highway had some construction with narrow lanes and barriers. Then, about two hours down the road, I saw his rig pulled off the side of the road and he was trying to repair some of the lower trailer siding near the drivers side wheel well.

When we were asked questions about how our rig towed while on our trip, I could say it felt very stable and controlled with the modification and set up done by Can Am. Early on in this thread people were saying that my setup was unsafe and they wouldn’t want to be on the road the same time as me. Call God’s providence, good luck, an expert set up or all three but we had no mishaps, tire blowouts, and were able to stop quickly when necessary. Here are some pictures before we took our rig to Cam Am along with some after. In the one coming out of the car wash we are loaded for the trip. Click image for larger version

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Steve
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:01 PM   #260
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Couple moreClick image for larger version

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