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Old 07-10-2018, 03:54 PM   #21
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The rated tongue weight of the stock Acura hitch is 500 lbs. This is published. It is a straightforward calculation for the Acura design engineers.

The tow capacity is published at 5000 lbs. Perhaps it is just a coincidence that this works out to a 10% tongue weight.

To believe that the vehicle is incapable of safely towing more than 5000 lbs when properly hitched, one would have to assume that the engineers who designed the vehicles hit the same absolute spec design limit with all of the various vehicle systems (chassis dynamics, engine, transmission, differentials, brakes, etc) at the same 5000 lbs. As a design engineer, it is pretty tough to get every limit to max out at the same time.

Acura only tested it to 5000 lbs, with the stock hitch, as far as we know, as that is what they published. Fortunately there are other companies that have more experience.

The specs that matter are the axle ratings, and the tire ratings. Those are key parts of the approach that the professional hitch shop that set up the vehicle follows. There should be no surprise that axle loads and tire loads are under the rated load.

And with a P3 style hitch, being blown around on the highway is much less likely than with a more basic hitch as some other posters say they are using, and worrying about a lack of control with.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bono View Post
You have your opinion, I have mine. Being 100-200 lbs over payload should not result in catastrophe. IMO there are more important specs to worry about.

Any I did not tell OP that he can tow this trailer with Acura or that Acura is similar to X5. What may help OP is to be aware that SUV can tow larger trailers, despite 90% comments in similar (US) forums.
Well, perhaps your opinion will be of some solace to the OP in the event he is in a very unfortunate accident situation, and worse yet, involving third party injuries. Because your opinion will mean very little to the insurance company who WILL deny all claims because the OP made unauthorized alterations to his vehicle and was towing beyond the manufactures specs. And the 100-200 lbs over payload won't do anything positive for the insurance investigator either. Catastrophe, big time! IMHO..
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:35 PM   #23
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This is so called FUD. Have you heard about one case where an insurance company denied claim because of the alterations? There are thousands of such cars on the roads. Many are in accidents every day.

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(...)Because your opinion will mean very little to the insurance company who WILL deny all claims because the OP made unauthorized alterations to his vehicle and was towing beyond the manufactures specs. (...)
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:49 PM   #24
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There are industry standards for rating tow capacity and hitch ratings. I assume manufacturers would publish higher tow ratings if it could be attained.
One limit that is considered is unibody construction. There is no frame to bolt the hitch to, only sheet metal. Another limit is front wheel drive configuration. Most csrs today are constructed lighter for fuel economy, not towing robustness. It you want to tow, get a suitable tow vehicle.
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:58 PM   #25
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Oh boy! To compare modified cars on the road and overloading a vehicle beyond the manufacturers capacity when it comes to liability is ridiculous. If it is no big deal to haul loads for which the vehicle is not intended, why is the countries highways littered with weigh scales for commercial vehicles? Rhetorical question, please don't answer.

Perhaps you can recommend to the OP an insurance underwriter who will cover him in his circumstances.

I am confident that the OP is a smart individual, who, after reading these posts is a little more informed and knows he has a decision to make. I wish him luck.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:02 PM   #26
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Oh boy, insurance company will not deny claim just because you were over mfg specs (which by the way are only recommendations). Similarly, insurance company will not deny claim when you are drunk and crash your car. If they provide you with an option to renew the policy is another question.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:41 PM   #27
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A quick tour through the spec sheet on the 2011 MDX list it to have quite a bit more capability than your run of the mill bicycle.

A V6 with 300 hp should pull well, but since no boost, expect a little loss of power at altitude. Also, to get that 300hp the engine needs to spin quite a lot. Be ready for that.

The 13" disks should stop well. Keep them maintained, look at pad upgrade to a more aggressive compound.

The 6 speed has decent ratios on the lower four, but the upper two are overdrives as they are on most multi-speed transmissions. So you were right to take control and shift down for the climbs. May be better to hold it down to 5th for the flat lands too.

The wheelbase is 108" (120" is better), but the PPP should help a lot to keep the rig on track. The independent suspension, stability control, traction control and rack/pinion steering all work together to keep the tire patch connected to the road.

As in the case of all SUVs and pickups, the center of gravity will be higher than ideal, but loading low in the vehicle helps with that issue. Keep the weight between the axles on the TV and over the axles on the coach. Traveling light in both the TV and the coach is always best. Keep the tanks empty when rolling long distance and climbing/descending. Take some bottled water as backup if you need it, because you can store it where it balances best. Secure loose items so they are not flying hazards in an excursion event.

Towing is harder on components than cruising, so shorter maintenance cycles are a good idea.

Weights are static measurements. They are used to project dynamic forces. Dynamic forces are usually the result of rapid accelerating or deceleration - not of the vehicle, but rather the components when transitioning bumps and pot holes. It helps for the vehicle speed to be reduced to minimize the component acceleration. So drive 50 mph, not 70 mph. Going West, it gets dull and you will be tempted. Resist .... at least a little. On rough roads, resist a lot.

It is worth your time to load up ready to travel and weigh the axles of the TT and the TV. That gives you a baseline to tune the rig.

I'm assuming you got lots of info from CanAm. If not, read Andy's towing articles and get them on the phone with your questions.

Good luck with your rig. Hope to see your smile down the road. Pat
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:12 PM   #28
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This is so called FUD. Have you heard about one case where an insurance company denied claim because of the alterations? There are thousands of such cars on the roads. Many are in accidents every day.
It is called ďGross NegligenceĒ. In a civil case, you will lose. Without question.
You might want to increase your umbrella policy.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:55 PM   #29
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Just cross-posting some information from the Honda Element Owners Club regarding tow ratings that may be useful.
  • 2005 CRV 5spd Manual:
    Austrialia: 1300lbs unbraked, 3300lbs braked
    USA: 1500lbs
  • 2005 CRV 5spt Auto:
    Australia: 1300lbs unbraked tow load, 2700 braked
    USA: 1500lbs.

No special part changes in the OEM parts catalog.

I definitely did closer to the 3300lbs from PA to AZ a few years back on a 5 spd element with an unbraked 5x8 box trailer I also had the back half volumetrically filled with stereo equipment, records, and furniture.

Honda lawyers wanted to cut me off at half that. MPG wasn't anything worth bragging about, and the 13-gallon tank became tedious, but it went up hills and stopped promptly . I left a runway between me and anything ahead of me. My reputation here (if any at all) is of a person whose opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:58 PM   #30
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It is called ďGross NegligenceĒ. In a civil case, you will lose. Without question.

You might want to increase your umbrella policy.

brick


Can I suggest you're both right and talking about separate issues?

Your insurance company almost assuredly won't deny the claim. They'll pay it - they're obligated to. Even drunk drivers. Which makes no logical sense but that's (almost always) the contract (read yours carefully). The odds of you remaining insured by them after that are roughly zero - any higher than zero will be because they charged - and you agreed to pay - multiples more on premium for the policy. And since insurers share a database of claim info, don't expect a cheap ride with other carriers either.

As for a civil suit, anything is possible. A good plaintiff's attorney would hold up the manufacturer's limits as sacred and a good defense attorney would argue to prove the limits were accurate, statistically valid and absolute. Coin toss depending on jury makeup, quality of attorneys, severity of injuries (or death), and too many other factors to count.

If your risk tolerance is low (like mine) you stay within specs. If you enjoy taking risks, do what makes you happy and hope things work out for you.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:41 PM   #31
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Now would be as good a time as any to present this:

This Is Why You Need A Big Truck To Tow Big Things In America

https://jalopnik.com/tow-me-down-1609112611/1609771499
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:57 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursh View Post
Just cross-posting some information from the Honda Element Owners Club regarding tow ratings that may be useful.


  • 2005 CRV 5spd Manual:

    Austrialia: 1300lbs unbraked, 3300lbs braked

    USA: 1500lbs
  • 2005 CRV 5spt Auto:

    Australia: 1300lbs unbraked tow load, 2700 braked

    USA: 1500lbs.



No special part changes in the OEM parts catalog.



I definitely did closer to the 3300lbs from PA to AZ a few years back on a 5 spd element with an unbraked 5x8 box trailer I also had the back half volumetrically filled with stereo equipment, records, and furniture.



Honda lawyers wanted to cut me off at half that. MPG wasn't anything worth bragging about, and the 13-gallon tank became tedious, but it went up hills and stopped promptly . I left a runway between me and anything ahead of me. My reputation here (if any at all) is of a person whose opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.


I owned a Honda Element, a 2011 Ecamper version. I towed a 350 lb Alumna trailer with two motorbikes weighing about 300 lbs each. I had a beefier hutch. The Element struggled with this load and the clincher was when I tried to brake at the bottom of a steeper incline and the brakes just failed to stop in a safe distance. The Element had a weak payload on top of this.

Iíve owned two Pilots, a 2008 and a 2012, both ď4x4Ēs. I rented two 3500 lb RV trailers. The Pilot struggled up hills, and while it towed both, I never felt I was entirely in control on steep downhill grades. Gas mileage was abysmal, like maybe 11 mpg.

When I bought my 28, I asked around and the consensus was to buy more tow rig than I needed. My 2500 Diesel RAM handles my current 27FB with ease, all with my two boys and Missus and a 500 lbs of dirt bikes in the back.

Granted, itís a poor daily driver. But as a tow rig, Iíve never regretted buying it. 14-16mpg towing, and the exhaust brake is awesome on steep grades. Iím always passing on the uphill too.

I am sure your MDX would be fine with a 22. If it were me, towing a 25 would have me eyeing an Ecoboost or a RAM eco diesel.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:37 AM   #33
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Depends on how and where you drive. Try it but you may want to upgrade. Plenty of people tow safely with set ups like this, and plenty of people roll F350s with no trailer attached and no other vehicle directly involved.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:57 AM   #34
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We just made it from Ohio to Montana, and I mustíve said no less than 12 times, I donít know how people do this in anything but a vehicle designed specifically for towing. I pull a 30 foot flying cloud, with a Silverado 2500 with the Duramax diesel. This trip, and just under 1700 miles so far, made that truck work itís tail off. From the pulls up the steep grades, to the breaking down them, everything that goes into the design of these two vehicles, their engines, cooling systems, brake systems, steering, the list goes on, are designed to be able to handle the weight behind you. Never once did I feel like the tail was wagging the dog, but again, I shook my head repeatedly at how anyone would make this trip with anything less than what I took. The reality is that once you hit the Western states, and the speed limit is 80, the traffic around you is going to be going at that pace. While any of us donít need to speed, we do have to take in the consideration that we are driving on these highways, many of them without shoulders, and you have to be able to manage the risk around you. I donít want to be a Debbie downer either, but there is no way that I would take these trips, in a vehicle that has been modified. Keep in mind that weíre not talking a trip to the local state park here, we are talking the trips that traverse mountains and steep grades. I donít know the folks in Canada that do the tow modifications that are often referenced here. What I suspect though is that somewhere in their documentation, sales receipts, is a disclaimer that while theyíll make the modification, you assume all of the risk and if things go south, itís totally on you as the owner and driver. Look, they are in business to make a buck, their pitch is that they can make your vehicle towed ready for a couple thousand dollars versus buying a new vehicle. I think thereís a market for that if you are going to keep yourself local and in unchallenging areas of travel. As The person where the buck stops, you have to make a determination as to how much liability youíre willing to assume, not to mention the risk that you were exposing yourself and your passengers to by potentially overloading the tow vehicle with a trailer and contents that simply overwhelm the systems required to tow safely.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:52 AM   #35
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:10 AM   #36
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
That was probably true, back when Henry ford first made the model T. But today? Not so much.

Mike
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:19 AM   #37
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
Pickups are designed and marketed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:27 AM   #38
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I fixed that for you.

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Pickups are designed and marketed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:40 PM   #39
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Todays trucks are certainly ENGINEERED and DESIGNED to tow. It is 2018, not 1918.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:15 PM   #40
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Like I've pointed out before, "You gotta run what you brung..."

And all I have is a Toyota Tacoma CrewMax 4x4 Pickup truck. With the setup I have, the ONLY issue is having to be very patient on long upgrades towing the AS. The rig is very stable on the road, has plenty of power on the flats, brakes and maneuvers well, and accommodates family and doggies just fine. And, like EVERY other Toyota vehicle I have owned, it is reliable, and cheap to keep, as it were. And hey, the silver truck, and a silver Airstream--looks nice as well!

We won't talk about the GMC van I once converted, that I could NOT get common repair parts for in a timely manner, or it's unreliable fuel filter, or impossible access to do routine engine maintenance, etc.

The rest of the time, The Tacoma will do just fine, until I can afford a Tundra. Then I happily get to do all the fiddles and adjustments for stability all over again...but I'll still be driving a Toyota for a long time, while smiling a lot!
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