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Old 05-24-2023, 11:00 PM   #1
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A rare visit from an old hand

I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.

For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.

The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.

Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.

My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.

My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.

I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.

Just saying.

Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul

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Old 05-25-2023, 03:23 AM   #2
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Old 05-25-2023, 05:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.

For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.

The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.

Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.

My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.

My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.

I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.

Just saying.

Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul

Welcome back...

Oh C-eh-n-eh-d-eh

Bob
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Old 05-25-2023, 07:52 AM   #4
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Thanks for posting. Never doubted it would work.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:32 AM   #5
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All right! Now I can get rid of my 2500 GMC.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:32 AM   #6
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It's great to see you are back! Thanks for the update. Enjoy summer travels.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:45 AM   #7
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Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.

The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.

For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.

The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.

Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.

My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.

My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.

I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.

Just saying.

Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul

Thanks for the update! You obviously made a good decision in a tow vehicle. There seems to be a significant portion of the population who tends to believe that worse-case scenarios will happen, but odds are they won't!
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Old 05-25-2023, 11:46 AM   #9
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Was your rig, by any chance, set up by Andy at Can-Am?
I pulled a 34 ft. Excella 49700 km with a Dodge Grand Caravan. Can't say I particularly enjoyed the experience in some of the mountains I got into in West Virginia, Arizona & New Mexico.
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Old 05-25-2023, 01:54 PM   #10
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Its good to hear from you Steve. Your posts were an inspiration for me when I started towing my 27FB with a Grand Caravan. I have since graduated to a TDI Touareg using the same thought process. I miss the interior space of the Grand Caravan, but everything else in the Touareg is better. I only ever ran into one issue with the Grand Caravan: going up a steep gravel road in a campground - the front wheel drive just didn't have enough weight on it. Just backed down and took a running start. Didn't even have an issue on the 17% grade heading north out of Perce on the Gaspe peninsula ... though I didn't pass anyone going up :-). However, I'm more comfortable in both (rare) situations with the Touareg. My only sadness is that the Touareg is discontinued in NA, so mine has to keep running for another 15 years :-).
So, thanks again for the inspiration. It has served us very well.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:17 AM   #11
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RE: A rare visit from an old hand

Greetings Steve! So good to see you posting on the Forums again! While my tow vehicle choice may not be quite as bold as yours, it raises nearly as many eyebrows. I got tired of the rough ride, deplorable fuel economy, needing a step ladder to climb into the drivers seat, and the need to travel to a dealer nearly every time that I dared to try to operate the four wheel drive (I purchased the truck new) that I was encountering with the pickup truck that I had (1995-1998). I switched back to towing with a full size car. Initially, it was my 1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible and after it was stolen, I adopted a 1992 Buick Roadmaster Limited sedan with the factory heavy duty trailering option. Today, more than ever, I stick to the secondary highways to avoid the craziness of the traffic on most of the Interstates whether I am towing or not.

1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible towing 1964 Airstream Overlander Land Yacht International:



1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible towing 1978 Minuet 6.0 Metre:



Steve, again, Welcome Back!
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:51 AM   #12
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MrUKToad:

May we please se a few pictures of your Sienna and trailer?

Best Regards,
-Ken
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Old 05-26-2023, 12:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.

The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
Honestly when you are talking about someone with a CDL and a ton of road experience, it is not the same discussion as a newbie to towing in terms of capabilities. All those posts about towing with a vehicle in a situation where the posted capabilities of the vehicle are exceeded should also come with the caveats in driving mentioned above.
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:19 AM   #14
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by pawsonross View Post
Was your rig, by any chance, set up by Andy at Can-Am?
I pulled a 34 ft. Excella 49700 km with a Dodge Grand Caravan. Can't say I particularly enjoyed the experience in some of the mountains I got into in West Virginia, Arizona & New Mexico.
Ross
Yes it was.

I get what you're saying, and we've gravitated to relatively short trips, rather than the cross-continental runs we imagined we'd do. I did a run between Corning NY and Buffalo NY, taking a route that I later found out was marked "Not suitable for RVs". It wasn't a huge distance, and certainly not at altitude, but all the hills and valleys were north-south, and the road was east-west, so it was steep up and down roads the whole way. The Sienna coped well, but it's not relaxed driving. Mind you, I'd imagine quite a lot of TVs would be tested on that route.
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:40 AM   #16
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MrUKToad:

May we please se a few pictures of your Sienna and trailer?

Best Regards,
-Ken
You can. I'll put some in a Google shared folder and post the link. Watch this space.
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinno View Post
Its good to hear from you Steve. Your posts were an inspiration for me when I started towing my 27FB with a Grand Caravan. I have since graduated to a TDI Touareg using the same thought process. I miss the interior space of the Grand Caravan, but everything else in the Touareg is better. I only ever ran into one issue with the Grand Caravan: going up a steep gravel road in a campground - the front wheel drive just didn't have enough weight on it. Just backed down and took a running start. Didn't even have an issue on the 17% grade heading north out of Perce on the Gaspe peninsula ... though I didn't pass anyone going up :-). However, I'm more comfortable in both (rare) situations with the Touareg. My only sadness is that the Touareg is discontinued in NA, so mine has to keep running for another 15 years :-).
So, thanks again for the inspiration. It has served us very well.
We stayed at a KOA in Owen Sound ON, and like you I took a run up on a steep gravel road.

It can work the other way, though. I ended up on a waterlogged site at Rondeau Provincial Park, and there was a water-filled dip just where the rear wheels of the Sienna sat after I'd hitched it up to leave. Fortunately, the front wheels were just on the gravel road so I had all the traction I needed to haul the Airstream off the site. Ironically the dip had been formed, I think, by RWD trucks spinning their wheels to get off the site; quite a few sites had the same issue.
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
Honestly when you are talking about someone with a CDL and a ton of road experience, it is not the same discussion as a newbie to towing in terms of capabilities. All those posts about towing with a vehicle in a situation where the posted capabilities of the vehicle are exceeded should also come with the caveats in driving mentioned above.
I take your point, but I was a complete newbie when I started, and I'd never towed a thing before. The CDL training came later.

Curiously, the Sienna wasn't a bad TV to learn on, at least having been given some expert tuition by my friends at CanAm RV in London ON. You tend not to think "It drives like the trailer's not there", and you're always conscious of the weight and length behind you and drive accordingly. The first time I forgot the trailer was there was driving through Atlanta GA on the I75, there being so many lanes, so many exits and so many other cars, I HAD to forget about the trailer!
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Old 05-27-2023, 05:56 AM   #19
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Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.

The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
Don't they just. It's the same in any forum, or Facebook group.
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Old 05-27-2023, 06:33 AM   #20
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Here are a few photos of the Sienna hitched to the Airstream. Hardly scary at all

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AjwKUftMiKXANRQBA
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