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05-24-2023, 11:00 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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A rare visit from an old hand
I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.
For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.
The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.
Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.
My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.
My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.
I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.
Just saying.
Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul
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05-25-2023, 03:23 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2008 22' Safari
Spicewood (W of Austin)
, Texas
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,922
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What Brake Controller?
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05-25-2023, 05:56 AM
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#3
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad
I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.
For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.
The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.
Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.
My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.
My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.
I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.
Just saying.
Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul
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Welcome back...
Oh C-eh-n-eh-d-eh
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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05-25-2023, 07:52 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
Mississauga
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,234
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Thanks for posting. Never doubted it would work.
__________________
Al and Jean
TAC ON-3
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05-25-2023, 09:32 AM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
2005 25' Safari
palm beach gardens
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 287
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All right! Now I can get rid of my 2500 GMC.
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05-25-2023, 09:32 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Flying Cloud
2008 23' International
Keremeos
, British Columbia
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 845
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It's great to see you are back! Thanks for the update. Enjoy summer travels.
__________________
Lisa and Paul
2017 30' FC | 2002 Chinook Destiny | 2008 23' Int. CCD (written off: hail!)
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05-25-2023, 09:45 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,566
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Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.
The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
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05-25-2023, 09:56 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1964 26' Overlander
1974 31' Sovereign
Milton
, ON
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad
I've not visited the forums for a while, and haven't contributed anything in years. It's comforting to see that the same old threads and the same old arguments are going on.
For those that may have seen my earlier work, I'm just starting my 12th season with the 2011, 28' International and it's controversial tow vehicle, the 2011 Toyota Sienna.
The Sienna is just coming up to 200,000 Km (124,000 miles) and some 28,000 Km (nearly 17,000 miles) of that has been towing. Overall performance of the Sienna, towing and not towing, has been exemplary, with nothing untoward happening. I have had her serviced by my local Toyota dealer according to the manufacturer's schedule and am still on the original transmission, brake rotors, coil springs and all the other things that people said would fail. Apart from the usual consumable items, the only work I've had done on the Sienna is a replacement front suspension strut and a new FM/AM antenna after the mounting broke on the original.
Over the eleven years up until last November, she was towing at an average 12.98 miles to the US gallon. Curiously that figure took a turn for the worse when I replaced the Trailer's Goodyears with a four Michelin LTs. More rubber on the road I guess.
My towing experience has been unremarkable. She starts, she stops, she doesn't (ever) sway, and can hold 60-65 mph all day. Any faster and the gas consumption gets a bit silly, so safety and economy keep me at those sweet spot numbers. I've had no incidents of any kind to report, no white knuckles, no new underpants (outside the regular schedule!), no near misses. I have learned to stay away from the Expressways when I can as I can generally get to my destination using much less fuel and feeling a whole lot more relaxed, even if I'm 20 minutes behind where I would have been had I used the faster road.
My only concern has been steep downhill gradients where I have drive like a trucker; speed and gear down BEFORE getting to the downhill part. My CDL training has helped there.
I can't write an update like this without saying, albeit briefly, that I told the naysayers that it was going to work. The Sienna hasn't thrown its transmission onto the floor, the brakes have worked flawlessly and I've stopped without fuss, every single time. I've had no sway incidents of any kind and I haven't been involved in a collision, not even one unrelated to towing. I haven't broken any laws (and I don't speed), been stopped by the Police, and I haven't been sued by any over-zealous lawyers. Above all, I haven't killed myself or anyone else, contrary to the very dire warnings I was issued in 2011.
Just saying.
Steve, the Toadmobile and Towed Haul
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Thanks for the update! You obviously made a good decision in a tow vehicle. There seems to be a significant portion of the population who tends to believe that worse-case scenarios will happen, but odds are they won't!
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05-25-2023, 11:46 AM
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#9
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1 Rivet Member
1998 34' Excella 1000
Algonquin Highlands
, Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 8
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Was your rig, by any chance, set up by Andy at Can-Am?
I pulled a 34 ft. Excella 49700 km with a Dodge Grand Caravan. Can't say I particularly enjoyed the experience in some of the mountains I got into in West Virginia, Arizona & New Mexico.
Ross
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05-25-2023, 01:54 PM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
2007 27' Safari FB SE
Waterloo
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 25
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Its good to hear from you Steve. Your posts were an inspiration for me when I started towing my 27FB with a Grand Caravan. I have since graduated to a TDI Touareg using the same thought process. I miss the interior space of the Grand Caravan, but everything else in the Touareg is better. I only ever ran into one issue with the Grand Caravan: going up a steep gravel road in a campground - the front wheel drive just didn't have enough weight on it. Just backed down and took a running start. Didn't even have an issue on the 17% grade heading north out of Perce on the Gaspe peninsula ... though I didn't pass anyone going up :-). However, I'm more comfortable in both (rare) situations with the Touareg. My only sadness is that the Touareg is discontinued in NA, so mine has to keep running for another 15 years :-).
So, thanks again for the inspiration. It has served us very well.
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05-26-2023, 09:17 AM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
1964 26' Overlander
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Anna
, Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,705
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RE: A rare visit from an old hand
Greetings Steve! So good to see you posting on the Forums again! While my tow vehicle choice may not be quite as bold as yours, it raises nearly as many eyebrows. I got tired of the rough ride, deplorable fuel economy, needing a step ladder to climb into the drivers seat, and the need to travel to a dealer nearly every time that I dared to try to operate the four wheel drive (I purchased the truck new) that I was encountering with the pickup truck that I had (1995-1998). I switched back to towing with a full size car. Initially, it was my 1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible and after it was stolen, I adopted a 1992 Buick Roadmaster Limited sedan with the factory heavy duty trailering option. Today, more than ever, I stick to the secondary highways to avoid the craziness of the traffic on most of the Interstates whether I am towing or not.
1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible towing 1964 Airstream Overlander Land Yacht International:
1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible towing 1978 Minuet 6.0 Metre:
Steve, again, Welcome Back!
__________________
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC #7864
AIR #827
1964 Overlander International
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
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05-26-2023, 11:51 AM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
2004 22' International CCD
Beaumont
, California
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 473
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MrUKToad:
May we please se a few pictures of your Sienna and trailer?
Best Regards,
-Ken
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05-26-2023, 12:00 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2020 30' Classic
Frederick
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.
The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
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Honestly when you are talking about someone with a CDL and a ton of road experience, it is not the same discussion as a newbie to towing in terms of capabilities. All those posts about towing with a vehicle in a situation where the posted capabilities of the vehicle are exceeded should also come with the caveats in driving mentioned above.
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05-27-2023, 05:19 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite
What Brake Controller?
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Prodigy II
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05-27-2023, 05:26 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawsonross
Was your rig, by any chance, set up by Andy at Can-Am?
I pulled a 34 ft. Excella 49700 km with a Dodge Grand Caravan. Can't say I particularly enjoyed the experience in some of the mountains I got into in West Virginia, Arizona & New Mexico.
Ross
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Yes it was.
I get what you're saying, and we've gravitated to relatively short trips, rather than the cross-continental runs we imagined we'd do. I did a run between Corning NY and Buffalo NY, taking a route that I later found out was marked "Not suitable for RVs". It wasn't a huge distance, and certainly not at altitude, but all the hills and valleys were north-south, and the road was east-west, so it was steep up and down roads the whole way. The Sienna coped well, but it's not relaxed driving. Mind you, I'd imagine quite a lot of TVs would be tested on that route.
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05-27-2023, 05:40 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndcctrucks
MrUKToad:
May we please se a few pictures of your Sienna and trailer?
Best Regards,
-Ken
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You can. I'll put some in a Google shared folder and post the link. Watch this space.
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05-27-2023, 05:47 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinno
Its good to hear from you Steve. Your posts were an inspiration for me when I started towing my 27FB with a Grand Caravan. I have since graduated to a TDI Touareg using the same thought process. I miss the interior space of the Grand Caravan, but everything else in the Touareg is better. I only ever ran into one issue with the Grand Caravan: going up a steep gravel road in a campground - the front wheel drive just didn't have enough weight on it. Just backed down and took a running start. Didn't even have an issue on the 17% grade heading north out of Perce on the Gaspe peninsula ... though I didn't pass anyone going up :-). However, I'm more comfortable in both (rare) situations with the Touareg. My only sadness is that the Touareg is discontinued in NA, so mine has to keep running for another 15 years :-).
So, thanks again for the inspiration. It has served us very well.
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We stayed at a KOA in Owen Sound ON, and like you I took a run up on a steep gravel road.
It can work the other way, though. I ended up on a waterlogged site at Rondeau Provincial Park, and there was a water-filled dip just where the rear wheels of the Sienna sat after I'd hitched it up to leave. Fortunately, the front wheels were just on the gravel road so I had all the traction I needed to haul the Airstream off the site. Ironically the dip had been formed, I think, by RWD trucks spinning their wheels to get off the site; quite a few sites had the same issue.
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05-27-2023, 05:53 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew
Honestly when you are talking about someone with a CDL and a ton of road experience, it is not the same discussion as a newbie to towing in terms of capabilities. All those posts about towing with a vehicle in a situation where the posted capabilities of the vehicle are exceeded should also come with the caveats in driving mentioned above.
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I take your point, but I was a complete newbie when I started, and I'd never towed a thing before. The CDL training came later.
Curiously, the Sienna wasn't a bad TV to learn on, at least having been given some expert tuition by my friends at CanAm RV in London ON. You tend not to think "It drives like the trailer's not there", and you're always conscious of the weight and length behind you and drive accordingly. The first time I forgot the trailer was there was driving through Atlanta GA on the I75, there being so many lanes, so many exits and so many other cars, I HAD to forget about the trailer!
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05-27-2023, 05:56 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
Great to read your posts again. It has been awhile, I recall the discussion when you started towing with the Toyota.
The naysayers are using the exact same lines today.
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Don't they just. It's the same in any forum, or Facebook group.
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05-27-2023, 06:33 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2011 28' International
Chatham
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,401
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Here are a few photos of the Sienna hitched to the Airstream. Hardly scary at all
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AjwKUftMiKXANRQBA
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