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TIMEMACHINE · 11-10-2007, 09:29 AM

As a good forum member I used the search function to help answer a question?? 2WD vs 4WD tow vehicles, Pros and Cons of each..

Any new thoughts since the last post in 2004?

time

thecatsandi · 11-10-2007, 10:13 AM

I nWestern MT you will be hard presseed to find a Pickup without 4 wheel drive and a tow package installed. If you want one you will be discouraged from doing so.

2airishuman · 11-10-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

As a good forum member I used the search function to help answer a question?? 2WD vs 4WD tow vehicles, Pros and Cons of each..

good job time'!

i drive quattro year round but it ain't the rather crude 4wd used in our big trucks.

the 2/4 superduties ride nicer and have slightly higher towing numbers...

BUT they are very hard to find (really need to order it) and sit lower...

mpg is higher and climbing in/out is easier, plus they LOOK cool.

in 50k miles of towing over the last 2 years i've need the 4x4 feature 3 times...

in loose gravel or grass when leaving a camp site.

and in my driveway at home on a patch of ice, un hitched.

i do engage the system monthly just to toss around the lubrication.

turning circle and steering are very different with 4x4 on, but again it's a primitive system.

IF you live where the truck NEEDS to be 4x4,

don't opt for the highway smooth tires...

because 4x4 doesnt' stop you, tires do.

in the pnw narrow mountain roads, most of the vehicles upsidedown and intheditch during snow season...

are 4x4 suvs and short trucks, over driven by clueless talking heads....

time to take the quattro for a spin!

cheers
2air'

Gene · 11-10-2007, 11:22 AM

BeBop, It's not clear to me whether you intend to tow in snowy areas that have been plowed, or use the truck alone in such conditions. Either way, ice and frozen slush and unplowed areas will occur even after plowing—what if it starts snowing again? We were at Sequoia NP with a 4WD SUV a couple of years ago in October and 15" of snow fell overnight while we stayed at a lodge; it had been warm before the weather changed. No problem for us, but the 20 or so Californians without 4WD (or snowbrushes or gloves) seemed pretty concerned. Unless you stay in an always warm area during snow season, you never know what may happen.

An Airstream is a major investment and I want to be sure I'm towing with a vehicle that can do anything. That said, I don't want to tow in snow, but where I live, it's pretty hard to go anywhere warm in winter (and fall or spring) without the possibility of snow—and sometimes you just have to deal with it. If you're only going to use the vehicle to tow or never go anywhere near snow, a 2WD probably will do it, but others have described situations where 4WD is necessary on mud (worse than snow in my opinion) or gravel.

So far as manual hubs are concerned, I didn't know they still make them. I'm not even sure automatic hubs are still around since they don't always lock or unlock easily. Manual transmissions seem to be disappearing on a lot of trucks (blame cellphones). Toyotas never had "automatic" hubs (not really very automatic) and long ago I got tired of getting out and locking and unlocking manuals. I don't know about other manufacturers, but Toyotas hubs are permanently locked. We prefer manual transmissions, but haven't been able to get them for years on the SUV's and pickups we buy. Where we live, it would only be possible to get 2WD as a special order, but in Berkeley you probably can get either, you wouldn't have one now.

4WD will probably reduce payload and possibly towing ability. More likely it will reduce payload. The 4WD package may or may not have stronger frame, axles, etc. There are various options (bigger battery, alternator, etc.) that may or may not be available with 2WD. Every manufacturer will be different. 4WD will cost in gas mileage, but when I run the numbers over a year, the cost isn't that much different. The initial capital cost is higher, but amortize it over 4 or 5 years and it's more manageable. In the end, the truck has to fit the Airstream and the uses you will put both of them to.

If you aren't going to move to a cold climate during the life of the TV (15-20% of Americans move every year), stay on warm pavement all the time, don't take trips over the Sierra Nevada with the truck in snow season, and are sure none of your plans will change in the next several years, 2WD will probably work. I am biased. I have always lived in snowy places and have traveled all over the U.S. and Canada. I was sure glad to have 4WD on a muddy road in the Yukon and NW Territories last year—and that was without a trailer (I probably would have waited for the road to dry if I were towing, but I didn't know it was going to rain so much—surprises are inevitable). How I see it is that some time I am going to be towing somewhere where the weather and/or road is bad. The Airstream may start skidding and the more sure footed the TV is, the less likely the trailer is going to take me into the ditch. To me 4WD is insurance.

Good luck with selecting a TV. I love buying trucks and negotiating deals. I wish I could do it every year, but I can't afford it.

Gene

Silvertwinkie · 11-10-2007, 11:48 AM

I have a 4wd Suburban and I have to say that when you boondock or even park on laws that can get dew in the AM. It does give some piece of mind. I have acutally used the 4x4 once or twice to get me out of some less than optimal situations both towing and not. This is not even taking into consideration how well the 4x4 work here in the winter. $70k Beemers doing doughnuts from a stop and with 4x4 it's like it's a clear, warm, bright sunny day.

It only takes 1-2 times where you need it to make it worthwhile. If you are getting a truck that has this option, to me, IMHO, it's no brainer. w)

nickcrowhurst · 11-10-2007, 02:54 PM

On my last trip I needed 4WD to get me into a camp site at Long Key S.P, Florida Keys, on deep sand when backing in at an angle. On 2WD the rear wheels just buried themselves. I probably need it once a season, and that makes it worthwhile for me.
Nick.

Silvertwinkie · 11-10-2007, 03:52 PM

You know that reminded me, and I'll have to dig up the picture.....I got stuck on gravel trying to get the Safari into a tight turn. Had to hook up the Farmall to move it cause the Impala, at the time, even with posi, just dug itself in like Nick said.

Also the pic on my avitar, the campsite where I've normally boondocked, it's about 150 feet in from the campground road, up a small grade before I get to the top, flat part. Had a few nail biters that first year with the Impala....now with the truck, it's all good.

Sky · 11-10-2007, 06:24 PM

There are X places you can go with 2WD and not get stuck. There are Y places you can go with 4WD and not get stuck, were X < Y.

There are Z places you can go, where both 2WD and 4WD will get stuck, where X < Y < Z.

Now, if you are talented enough to recognize X places and Y places, buy 2WD if you plan on only visiting X places, because it is cheaper, gets better MPG, and has less maintenance.

Obviously, if you plane to visit Y places buy the 4WD.

If you can't distinguish between X places and Y places and Z places, then I recommend 4WD since you will get stuck fewer times.

I am pretty good at seperating X from Y and from Z, and only visit X places. I reap the benefits of 2WD.

Just my 2 cents

denellen · 11-10-2007, 08:12 PM

Where is the real 2AIR avatar that we all know and cherish?
I will never accept this insidious Krap

2airishuman · 11-10-2007, 08:19 PM

oh-k dennis...

you are messing with the K....

it's a game day thang, don't ya know?

rock chalk jaaaaaaaaayhawk, kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkU!

2air'

all most 10 and oh baby!

denellen · 11-11-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

oh-k dennis...

you are messing with the K....

it's a game day thang, don't ya know?

rock chalk jaaaaaaaaayhawk, kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkU!

2air'

all most 10 and oh baby!

Oh! OK. Thats Kool. Uh, whats a Jayhawk Dok?

Royce · 11-12-2007, 06:42 AM

Lot of great info in the preceeding posts. I prefer 4WD. Needed for getting where I want to be, added bonus you can get stuck further from home.

Ahab · 11-12-2007, 07:33 AM

We live at 4600' and can get a little snow in the winter. I do volunteer work which often takes us into remote desert/forest areas. A 4x4 is a must for us.

safari 28 · 11-12-2007, 07:44 AM

To be honest when towing I use 4x4 very little. However the time i spend in Michigan and colorado is significant. Need I say more?

pilgrim · 11-12-2007, 09:39 AM

Living in southeastern Ohio, hills, valleys, and unimproved roads plus a driveway that rises 70' from bottom to top means we use a 4 wheel drive vehicle as the first one out in the winter. The front wheel drive can usually make it up the hill once the 4x4 had cut a path. When we know snow is coming, we park both vehicles at the top of the hill - no sense in making it tougher on ourselves. For towing, we seldom use the 4 wheel drive BUT it is there should we need it and I'd much rather have it and not need it that to need it and not have it. Wet grass, gravel, and slight inclines can all be reasons for needing it. My last auto (audi quattro) was 4 wheel drive all the time and I loved it. I traded it for the new TV which is 2 wheel drive unless I flip the switch making it a 4 wheel drive. I've not done it very often but with winter on its way, I know it's there when I need it. Also, if I get in a tough position while towing, I also know it's there. I like having it!! I'll not be without it!! Much of it is personal preference, however. Good luck with your decision.

jacarape · 11-24-2007, 12:39 AM

My 2 cts...Why limit yourself? If you only use yoru TV for towing, ok, but do you ever use it for the pleasure of 4 wheeling?

Andrew T · 11-24-2007, 03:34 AM

Just a couple of thoughts on 4WD.

If you have rear wheel drive and need more traction to get into a campsite or out of a snow convered side street let the torsion bars down to the end link or remove them completelsy and you will have an extra 1000 pounds or so on your drive wheels. Don't drive at highway speeds that way.

Some 4 Wheel Drive vehicles come with straight front axles which create a higher centre of gravity on the vehicle less front suspension travel narrower suspension stance, less steering feel etc. Every vehicle segment has a product with the far superior independent front suspension. Some segments have 4 wheel independent suspension which is that much better again.

We have several vehicles and get our share of winter and tow in all conditions and most are two wheel drive and do fine. I can call a tow truck a couple of times a year and still be hundreds ahead on the cost of operating a 4x4. However the 3/4 ton truck we have for towing fifth wheels is useless in the snow without a fifth wheel on it. Our 1500 2WD Suburban is will go through almost as much as the HD in 4x4.

The other huge difference is tires, my 300C came with a poor tire and it was useless in snow but I blamed getting back into a rear drive car again after years of front drives. After a while I changed the tires to BF Goodrich KDWS all seasons and it was a different car in the snow and though still not as good as the front drive vehicles it is vastly improved.

For some reason the 235/85 16 tires that used to be common were just awful for traction no matter what brand they were, changing them to 245/75's gives far more traction.

Andy

slowmover · 11-24-2007, 06:29 AM

When I live in a place where the police and sheriff's department have to use 4WD to do their jobs, then it'll be worth it. As to a dedicated tow vehicle, no way.

genearnold · 11-24-2007, 07:50 AM

I live on the side of a mountain a few hundred feet above the city. When I moved up here I noticed that most of the people in the neighborhood had 4X4s so I planned to get one when it came time to trade vehicles. At the time I had a Lincoln Town Car and a Chevy 1/2ton diesel. That was more than 16 years ago and I still have my 2X4s. There have been a handful of times during those years that I would have liked a 4X4 but overall I am not sorry for my decision. When the Town Car had to be retired I replaced it with a Lincoln Continental with front wheel drive. It has been perfect for my needs. As for my tow vehicles, in the nearly 25 years I've been towing I've never been stuck with the AS.

Perhaps my decision to stay with the 2X4s stems from some very unhappy memories from 45 years ago when I had to use a Jeep to do my Nebraska mail route in bad weather. I grew to hate that Jeep! Seems every time I used it it had to have repairs. The Jeep was no longer needed after I bought my first VW Beetle in 1962. The VW would go over any road the Jeep would (of course, off-road was a different story).

Gene

Tin Diesel · 11-24-2007, 01:02 PM

We bought our first (and probably only) trailer 2 years ago. We quickly bought our 4x4 F250 because we spend a lot of time in Colorado with it. We've used the 4x4 a lot when unhitched and exploring the back roads- a big plus.

I've used it to pull one of my contractors Chevy truck out of my rain-softened back yard.

With the trailer, it lets us go places we couldn't go otherwise. We will NEVER camp in those line-em-up-close pack-em-in-tight commercial campgrounds - a state park is as close to that as we come.

These two pics show just two of the numerous times we've been glad to have it: in the sand at Padre Island National Seashore, and our driveway in Colorado (average 10% grade, but some 15%). Both MUST HAVE 4x4.