30' Bunkhouse, what to tow with?

[seanmeyer]

My family just got our first Airstream (first camper at all really) and we're planning on hitting the road full-time starting this May. We're planning on doing this for at least a year and perhaps a lot longer. The Airstream is a 2005 30' Safari Bunkhouse. It's max weight is ~8400 lbs and 850 lbs on the hitch.

I picked up the Airstream in my 2002 Chevy Suburban 1500 and that seemed to tow it just fine. Until, at least, I got to the Rockies and going uphill was a pain. At times I had a mashed accelerator while the speedometer was decreasing and got horrible gas mileage in the mountains.

We'll be selling our house so all our worldly possessions will be with us. I'm sure I'll be towing the Airstream close to its max weight. It'll be me, the wife, our 3 kiddos (ages 5,7,9) and the dog. In the back of whichever long bed truck I end up with will be a 460lb Yamaha FJ-09 motorcycle and 5 bicycles. I'll also have a couple of 45lb generator/inverters tucked away somewhere too.

So what truck to buy? I'm sure I'm looking at either a "3/4" ton or "1" ton. It'll obviously be a crew cab with a long bed. My cash budget is between $25k-$30k. We don't want to have a payment. I'd like something with a big gas tank for range. So Ford, GM, or Ram? Diesel or Gas engine? Duel rear wheels or is that necessary? I'm a novice when it come to towing.

Ultimately I want a reliable truck that is comfortable to tow with. One where I'm not weighing every item that goes in the truck worried about payload. One that can tackle the Rocky Mountains without ever feeling like it's being overtaxed.

I'm not at all familiar with diesel engines and I've had some friends and neighbors warn me against certain diesels though at this point I can't remember which. One friend was saying how in the mid-2000s the EPA was really cracking down on diesel engines and added fuel efficiency measures that really degraded their reliability. Will a gas engine be enough power to tow in comfort in all situations? I'm not really opposed to a diesel but I am more familiar with gas.

I'd love to hear your recommendations. Thanks in advance.

-Sean

[jcl]

With those plans, I would be looking at a SRW one ton pickup, with a large payload rating.

Diesel or gas is a personal preference. Generally, you need to put a lot of annual miles on to pay back the diesel premium, but those who like them generally aren't doing it for cost reasons. If it is equipped with an exhaust brake, that is a whole other discussion.

Each manufacturer has had better years and worse years, depending on when they introduced additional exhaust emission controls to their product line. The emissions controls have had as much an impact on owner satisfaction as the base engines, often more.

I like the Cummins engine, but not the RAM truck. GM doesn't work for me. That leaves me with Ford, and then I would pick a year that had better reliability statistics than others. There aren't bad choices, just choices.

That is a really general starting point.

Good luck. Let the truck (and engine) wars begin.

Jeff

[Wingeezer]

I've never thought there was much to choose between the big three truck makers - I happen to have a GMC and really chose it mainly because I preferred the interior more and my wife liked the fact that the Duramax diesel is not terribly noisy (I rather like the noise of the Cummins diesel - but then I worked for a railroad for 34 years!

I suspect we would have been happy enough with Ford or Dodge.

I think a 3/4 ton would be plenty - the suspenion on the 3/4 ton is somewhat stiffer than the half ton we used to own (with a previous smaller trailer about half the wt. of our present AS). This was a consideration as we use the truck as a daily driver. But we have gotten used to it.

I'm not sure if a 1 ton truck would give an even stiffer ride when unloaded. I thought it might but never got a clear answer on that! The 3/4 has been fine.

The crew cab has turned out to be a great choice - our half ton had the smaller club cab with narrow backwards opening doors - a bit of a pain.

As for the engine I opted for the diesel as we were buying new, and I had heard how well they pull - and they do! But the price premium in Canada was about $10k over gas.

If budget were a consideration in buying a used truck, I think I might be inclined to opt gor a newer gasser than an older diesel.

I am not really getting as good fuel mileage compared to gas as I anticipated, plus diesel fuel is often more expensive than gas these days.

I will say the diesel has been very reliable over the 8 years we have owned it - only issue has been one glow plug to replace. Starts great in cold weather. As this was our first diesel we had concerns about diesel smell (well my wife was concerned!) but it has never been an issue - unless you spill the stuff on your hands when filling up!


One thing I would be a bit careful about though unless you are really convinced you need it, is the long box, especially if the truck will be your daily driver. Even our regular box, together wth the crew cab makes for a vehicle that can at times be a bit of a pig in tight car parks. That is really the only complaint that my 5' wife has when shopping with it. Things would be quite a bit worse for her with a long box I think! The extra space might be nice, but we stayed away from the long box for that reason.

Hope those comments might be of some use.

Brian.

[SCOTTinNJ]

I'm looking at a nissan nv 3500 to tow with. You can add bench seats to the cargo version aftermarket. Could work for you. Or passenger with seats removed.

That's if 16,000# gcwr works for you.

[capnttom]

We just bought a new Ram 2500 Megacab CTD. The Megacab provided more room than a crew cab. We need the room for our dogs. Anyhow, you may want to look at one to see if that might work for you. I suspect you can find a used one somewhere.


Tom & Cathy
Looking for an AS
2014 Roadtrek Adventurous
2016 Ram Megacab CTD 4x4

[Alluminati]

Three kids and a dog in the second row of a pickup? Are you sure you can permanently give up that third row?

Sounds like you'd be happier with your Suburban if it just had a stronger engine.

[seanmeyer]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I took a gander at that Nissan NV 3500 van. Looks like it it would tow the Airstream no problem and the cost is right even for new. Only problem is fitting the motorcycle plus three kids and a dog. Doesn't look be long enough for that chore.

I liked the idea of that Ram Megacab too but it looks like the Megacab doesn't come with a long box. Which I really need for the motorcycle.

I think I need to get out there and test drive these behemoths. We're anticipating driving from coast to coast and then some in whichever truck we choose so one thing I'd really like to know is which truck has the most comfortable interior. With the wife, three kids, and a 50lb dog in the cab for long distances comfort is a high priority.

It sure would be easier if I didn't have a desire to bring the motorcycle along. I could just upgrade to a 2500 Suburban or Excursion or other big SUV but I say the motorcycle must come along on this adventure.

Thanks again y'all.

[Rgentum]

I bought a new 1984 Ford F150, & it was a disappointment (among many other continuing issues, its right front wheel fell off on the Santa Monica Freeway, driving from the dealership to my home --- that was just the beginning of one problem after another with that brand new truck). In 2015 when I wanted another truck, for towing, I drove a Ram & GMC 3/4 ton & chose the Ram, which has worked well for me. Having now towed my AS some 15K miles & talked with many other AS owners, if I had to do it again, I'd get a 1-ton, the only difference being that the 2500 has coil springs & the 3500 has leaf springs, which others feel work better for towing. I should add that for me Ram is not a daily driver; I use it exclusively for towing the AS & getting building materials, eg, at Home Depot etc.

Also, I've had a variety of diesels on boats for decades & am quite happy with them, so for me I want a diesel in my truck regardless of price. There are lots of guys on this Forum, however, who seem quite happy with gas trucks, which unarguably are less expensive to buy; the Ram diesel itself added $9K to the truck's price.

I bought the Ram new, which set me back around $55K, frankly, a ridiculous amount. I also looked at used Rams, & what I heard from many others was that the years to get were around 2006-2008, which had the 5.9 L Cummins & was just before the diesel EPA requirements took effect, circa mid-2008 I believe. What I recall was that a reasonable Ram 2500 Cummins among those years could be had in the range of $25K-$35K. That be an alternative you might consider. Regardless, my best to you with your TV & AS & happy camping.

[SCOTTinNJ]

I love motorcycles as much as anyone but I still have to ask why it's a necessity? Seems like an adventure like this will be awesome without it and that certainly frees up many vehicle options which would be way more comfortable for your passengers.

[overlander63]

Brian (wingeezer) had asked about a harsher ride on a 1 ton vs 3/4 ton oickup. The suspensions are identical between the two on almost any one I can think of. The difference is usually a taller shim between the springs/axles, so the ride would also be the same.

[DaveMc]

Welcome to the bunkhouse owner's club! We've enjoyed ours and think you've got the right one for a full time trip. While our 3/4 ton is awesome with the towing, we've got one less kid and things are just right in the cab. Dog on the floor with a baby bed mattress & seat folded up, kid in middle and on other side. You could go with the bench seat up front and get enough seating for everyone, but I suspect that would start to suck not far into the adventure. Cabin comfort is high on my list for traveling, and I also think it adds to my safety factor (not being packed in like sardines helps me focus on driving).

A lot depends on how long you plan on staying in one place. My sense is not very long. Sounds like you need to decide between the bike and one of the kids. Lol. Only kidding. Good luck and I'd recommend learning about sealants asap. (Google search and add airforums to the search terms). Having just bought the same year trailer, assume that everything needs resealing. Everything needs resealing... Yours was parked under cover for a while if it's the one I'm thinking of. My guess is that you'll have plenty of leaks when it's living outside. Good luck and ask lots of questions!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[RPVEd]

Get a used diesel truck and have the diesel tank upgraded to 50 gal. or have an auxiliary tank added to the bed. Your three children are going to get heavier so you need a margin of extra cargo capacity (also your extra diesel fuel will weigh more). This will give you the range you are looking for if need be (but you should fill up at half tank when possible). You will need the diesel engine-exhaust to save brakes and your transmission/drive train going downhill. I have been in a gas truck going down a long steep mountain where downshifting wasn't enough and the brakes overheated.

[DC Bruce]

I don't think there's much of a ride difference between 3/4 and 1 ton. RAM did not start using coil springs in 3/4 ton until fairly recently. With your budget, you're probably not looking at trucks that new. Gas vs. diesel is kind of a toss-up. Diesels will have better mugs but, depending on where you are, require more expensive fuel. Service will definitely be more expensive, an important consideration with the age of the diesels you will be looking at. Also, exhaust brakes on diesel pickup engines are a fairly new development, Ford being the last to fit one. A gasoline engine will definitely provide more engine braking than a diesel with no exhaust brake. Avoid the Ford 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. They will fail, very expensively. Supposedly the 6.0's design flaws can be cured but at a high price. The Cummins 5.9 engine has a great reputation but it's definitely noisy. On the gas engine side, the 6 liter in the Chevy felt underpowered even empty. The 6.4 engine in the RAM felt powerful to me, but it is new and may be out of your price range. The RAM 5.7 gas engine I haven't driven; it might be o.k. The Ford 6.2 feels pretty good and it's been around. That would be my choice for a gasser. You'll also find that, on the used market, the gassers are substantially cheaper and they will have a good deal more payload, which is your limiting factor, not the tow rating. The Cummins diesel is especially heavy.
If it sounds like I'm favoring gasoline, I am. You will be buying a used truck, and diesels are far less tolerant of indifferent maintenance than gasoline engines; and the consequences are often far more expensive to fix.

[slowmover]

Where are the numbers? The owners who've put a bunkhouse on the scale? Full propane, fresh water, number of persons and type of trip (four days? Four weeks?) that is a description of the load carried.

What good is advice based on conjecture?

A family trailer might get heavier after two seasons. But sanity can return and the things never used get removed.

If a bunkhouse is "unique" then ya'll get one of them on to a CAT Scale as your point of departure. Three passes so as to isolate tongue weight and solo vehicle values. See the chart by Ron Gratz I linked years ago.

Take the opportunity to do a thread other than the usual feel good but bad advice type. This forum is full of those.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The numbers *could* be (but I'm sure are not):

Tongue weight 900 lb
Two adults 400 lb
Three kids. 300 lb
Dog. 150 lb (yes, I have a couple of those

FJ-09 460 lb
5 bikes 200 lb
Generators 90 lb
20 gal fuel 120 lb
Tool box(s). 50 lb
Hitch. 100 lb
Misc "stuff" 200 lb

Total 2,970 lb

A 10% "don't want to sweat it" margin gets you into the 3,200 lb vicinity. 3,200 + 8,800 on the trailer + 7,000 lb of TV gives you a GCVWR of 19,000 lb.

None of that is correct (they are not the real numbers for your case). If it was, you would need a TV that can handle a 3,200 lb payload, tow 8,800 lb, and legally do 19,000 lb combined. You have to check off all three boxes. Two out of three does not count

Can you do the tow without checking off all the boxes? Of course you can. People do it every day of the year. Should you do it in an overloaded TV? I'd vote for not doing it for a number of reasons. Have I overloaded in some cases, of course I have. I would not do it on a regular basis.

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, you have gone through the numbers and you are *sure* you have everything right. You go on the web sites and check the tables. It all looks fine. You go and pick up your shiny new super duper hauler. It comes with a manual ( who knew . If it happens to be an 2017 F-250 manual, back on page 278 there is a cute little note: "Reduce combined weight rating by 2% for every 1,000' altitude" (more or less). So, if i happen to spend a lot of time chugging around at 11,000 feet in Vail, that is a bit of an issue. 22% of the combined rating is a *lot* to loose. The curb weight of the truck and trailer aren't going to change. It all comes out of people and toys.

Bottom line, once you have checked all the numbers, your task has only just begun. Digging up all the little qualifiers (how many passengers in the "base load", how much do those passengers weight, ...) is more than a little involved. There appear to be very few standards about how to present the numbers. That makes things really weird comparing brand G to brand F to brand R (or whatever).

Bob

[Martee]

Originally Posted by seanmeyer

My family just got our first Airstream (first camper at all really) and we're planning on hitting the road full-time starting this May. We're planning on doing this for at least a year and perhaps a lot longer. The Airstream is a 2005 30' Safari Bunkhouse. It's max weight is ~8400 lbs and 850 lbs on the hitch.

I picked up the Airstream in my 2002 Chevy Suburban 1500 and that seemed to tow it just fine. Until, at least, I got to the Rockies and going uphill was a pain. At times I had a mashed accelerator while the speedometer was decreasing and got horrible gas mileage in the mountains.

We'll be selling our house so all our worldly possessions will be with us. I'm sure I'll be towing the Airstream close to its max weight. It'll be me, the wife, our 3 kiddos (ages 5,7,9) and the dog. In the back of whichever long bed truck I end up with will be a 460lb Yamaha FJ-09 motorcycle and 5 bicycles. I'll also have a couple of 45lb generator/inverters tucked away somewhere too.

So what truck to buy? I'm sure I'm looking at either a "3/4" ton or "1" ton. It'll obviously be a crew cab with a long bed. My cash budget is between $25k-$30k. We don't want to have a payment. I'd like something with a big gas tank for range. So Ford, GM, or Ram? Diesel or Gas engine? Duel rear wheels or is that necessary? I'm a novice when it come to towing.

Ultimately I want a reliable truck that is comfortable to tow with. One where I'm not weighing every item that goes in the truck worried about payload. One that can tackle the Rocky Mountains without ever feeling like it's being overtaxed.

I'm not at all familiar with diesel engines and I've had some friends and neighbors warn me against certain diesels though at this point I can't remember which. One friend was saying how in the mid-2000s the EPA was really cracking down on diesel engines and added fuel efficiency measures that really degraded their reliability. Will a gas engine be enough power to tow in comfort in all situations? I'm not really opposed to a diesel but I am more familiar with gas.

I'd love to hear your recommendations. Thanks in advance.

-Sean

With that budget and that weight; perhaps a used Ford F250 Diesel powestroke would do the job.

[DC Bruce]

Be sure to avoid the 6.0 and 6.4 power stroke engines. They have inherent design weaknesses and they will fail, expensively. See if you can find a non- loaded model--without the leather seats and all the dooddads. Maintenance history is going to be very important. Diesels need regular oil changes and regular maintenance of the fuel system (filters, water separators) to avoid expensive repairs. You may not get the payload you need without going to a 1-ton (F-350 or similar).

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Buying and selling used trucks has always been "interesting". I have often sold trucks for close to what I paid for them. Their price is more related to miles than to years. Simply put, if you are going to find a truck that fits a specific budget, it probably will have some miles on it. Budget for tires, brakes, and shocks. You will not need them all on the first day. It's likely you will need them in the first year.

If the miles really bug you, there is an alternative. Wait until all the rebates are out this fall. Go shopping for the 2016's that are still left on. the lots. If there aren't any, look for the 2017's. You will not have much selection. The prices should be pretty good. My experience has been that a new truck (now one or two years old) will sell for a bit less than a used one when bought this way.

Bob

[seanmeyer]

So we ended up with a low mileage, 2012 Ram 3500, long bed, and cummins diesel. We did go over my original budget a bit. I must say it's doing the trick nicely. We're on the road full time now. We just drove it at altitudes above 10,000ft and on inclines / declines of 7°+ over the Rocky Mountains between Evergreen, CO and Moab, UT where we're now parked. The truck performed wonderfully. It didn't slow down on the ascents and I love the exhaust brake for holding speed without braking on the descents. Motorcycle & ramp / Weber Q grill / 5 bicycles / and other odds and ends fit great in the 8 foot bed. The only potential problem I can foresee is that my overall length is way, way long. Getting into some campsites might be a problem. Thanks for all the replies.

Sean