3/4 ton convert

[lsbrodsky]

For the last 4 years I have been a vocal advocate of the adequacy of my 1/2 ton 2012 Silverado for towing my 2012 25FB, evidenced by the thousands of miles I have driven in the East. Now after my first tow with my new 3/4 ton Silverado I must put the word ONLY in front of adequate when referring to my traded 1/2 ton. I finally got my A.R.E. cap on and enough miles to tow on the longish trip to some scales. This 3/4 ton is the right tool for the job! Let me count the ways:

1. Power and gearing, a world of difference. MY 1/2 had 3.42, which seemed fine. The 6.0 liter coupled with a 4.10 rear end makes working up through the gears or maintaining speed with cruise transparent and quiet. Oh 12 mpg for the trip.
2. Brakes, it really stops. I had a long stopping distance before and idiots pulling out in front of me were a source of anxiety. Obviously the trailer brakes are the same but the truck does a better and shorter distance of stopping.
3. Passing truck wiggle, no more. I had no sway because of my ProPride, but I could feel trucks passing me. Not now, the truck tracks straight whether I am being passed or just cruising.
4. More relaxed. The above and just the feel made me feel more relaxed towing, less tense.
5. Axle and load. Not even worth talking about, with the trailer, junk in the bed and a cap, I am so far below the load limits it is a non-issue.
6. Weight distribution. Not sure what to say here. I tried the fender method when I first hooked up, but I could not get WD to move the front fender even at 6" on the WD jacks. But when I took off, I knew I needed more WD based on the porpoising I was feeling. At the scales, I adjusted the WD and ended up exactly where I was with the 1/2 ton. Maybe that makes sense since the trailer tongue weight is the same. I expected to need less WD, but did not. With the right WD, I do not even know the trailer is back there.

So this is my mea culpa to the 3/4 ton crowd for ever doubting you.

Larry

[Wingeezer]

Felt just the same when I also moved from 1/2T Sierra to 3/4T Sierra.

The first was "sort of" adequate, but the second has "room to spare."

Either work, but I know which I prefer - a much more relaxing trip!

[Al and Missy]

Congrats Larry for joining the cult. My sentiments exactly re: my F-150 and Safari 25. Then I traded for a 9100# Classic 30. The older F-150 couldn't have done it but a new EcoBoost or Tundra might have had a chance. I got the used Ram 2500 Cummins for about the same price and wouldn't go back.

Al

[AstroBruce]

It's like trying to explain a total solar eclipse. But once you see one...

Bruce

[crispyboy]

Congratulations on the new truck. Yep there is a difference in towing characteristics but many won't believe it until they actually do it themselves. Hate to say it but it is the same for pivot point projection hitches........

[rlhendren]

I agree completely. My Ram 1500 pulled the 23Dwith ease and with great comfort to the passengers. But the F250 pulls it with assurance and confidence.

[lsbrodsky]

The thing is, I have had my AS for 4+ years and I have read every post there is on tow vehicles, hitches, tires, etc. A lot of opinions on this or that or the other thing, but I just do not recall anyone saying " I had a 1/2 ton, now I have a 3/4 ton and here is why I like it better". Just a lot of polarized opinions, but I guess that is what you should expect on a forum. Oh well, my journey to and from the campgrounds will be more pleasant now. Might even convince my wife that she can drive....
Larry

[switz]

I towed our 2013 25FB International Serenity home from the Los Angles dealer to the East side of Phoenix using my CanAm modified receiver 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel at a speed of 55 mph. The trailer had the Hensley Arrow attached along with dealer installed street and rear awnings, a 155 watt solar panel, a Tekonsha RF brake control head, and full fresh water and propane tanks. The literature 833 pound tongue weight was then 1,150 pounds. I was able to maintain 55 mpg coming up the major mountain climb out of Palm Springs on I-10 with no problems (engine dropped to 4th gear at 3,100 rpm).

We loaded the trailer with all of our stuff and had to adjust the tools to the rear to get the tongue weight back to 1,175 pounds. My wife and I and some gear in the back of the ML320 went to the CAT scales. The trailer now weighed 6,900 pounds and the ML320 was being challenged on minor inclines by hearing the change in the drive train noises.

A 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins took over the towing duties still using the Hensley Arrow. A very relaxed towing experience became the norm and after visiting Joshua Tree National Park, we went east out of Palm Springs up the same mountain climb but stayed in 6th gear.

I kept the Hensley Arrow and Prodigy RF brake system when the 25FB was traded in for a 2014 31' Classic. I stored the Hensley Arrow and Tekonsha brake system and installed a ProPride on the Classic. This is a great combination for us and the rig scales about 19,200 pounds with everything we could possibly need or want in both the trailer and back of the truck. Having my own two sets of four wheel scales, I have dialed in the ProPride and tire pressures. One great combination.

When we purchased the 2015 23D, I brought the Hensley Arrow and Prodigy RF brake control out of storage and installed the components on the 23D. The fully loaded 23D has a tongue weight of 928 pounds and scales 6,063. I stopped by CanAm on the way home and Andy Thompson dialed in the Hensley Arrow to the car and trailer. This is a perfectly matched setup for us and I drive the rig at 55 mph seeing over 16 mpg taking it easy. We can take the 6% to 7% grades getting in and out of the Phoenix area without stressing the car and the engine back pressure allows for descents without touching the brakes.

I firmly believe the ¾ ton Ram is an ideal tow vehicle for our Classic and would not desire a 1/2 tow vehicle.

[MIFC]

I echo all of what has been said here when we moved from a Tundra to a GMC 2500 last year.

I'd emphasize the point Larry made about a relief driver. My wife was not comfortable towing before with the Tundra (a great all around truck in its own right BTW), but is much more so now. A great help when driving home from Montana as we did last weekend.

[lsbrodsky]

Yeah, that tongue weight on the 25FB is an often mentioned item. At the scales today, I calculated that the tongue weight is about 900 on mine, and I got rid of my batteries on the tongue, the Lithium's are under the bed.
My 3/4 ton truck could care less.

Larry

[jdalrymple]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

For the last 4 years I have been a vocal advocate of the adequacy of my 1/2 ton 2012 Silverado for towing my 2012 25FB, evidenced by the thousands of miles I have driven in the East. Now after my first tow with my new 3/4 ton Silverado I must put the word ONLY in front of adequate when referring to my traded 1/2 ton. I finally got my A.R.E. cap on and enough miles to tow on the longish trip to some scales. This 3/4 ton is the right tool for the job! Let me count the ways:

1. Power and gearing, a world of difference. MY 1/2 had 3.42, which seemed fine. The 6.0 liter coupled with a 4.10 rear end makes working up through the gears or maintaining speed with cruise transparent and quiet. Oh 12 mpg for the trip.
2. Brakes, it really stops. I had a long stopping distance before and idiots pulling out in front of me were a source of anxiety. Obviously the trailer brakes are the same but the truck does a better and shorter distance of stopping.
3. Passing truck wiggle, no more. I had no sway because of my ProPride, but I could feel trucks passing me. Not now, the truck tracks straight whether I am being passed or just cruising.
4. More relaxed. The above and just the feel made me feel more relaxed towing, less tense.
5. Axle and load. Not even worth talking about, with the trailer, junk in the bed and a cap, I am so far below the load limits it is a non-issue.
6. Weight distribution. Not sure what to say here. I tried the fender method when I first hooked up, but I could not get WD to move the front fender even at 6" on the WD jacks. But when I took off, I knew I needed more WD based on the porpoising I was feeling. At the scales, I adjusted the WD and ended up exactly where I was with the 1/2 ton. Maybe that makes sense since the trailer tongue weight is the same. I expected to need less WD, but did not. With the right WD, I do not even know the trailer is back there.

So this is my mea culpa to the 3/4 ton crowd for ever doubting you.

Larry

Welcome to the enlightenment.



Regards,


JD

[cwf]

I know the feeling...

[uncle_bob]

Hi

I've always found it a bit hard to understand why one would *prefer* a 1500 category TV over a 2500 simply for towing on a trailer that is in the 25' and up category. In this case I'm using the word a bit specifically to mean "economics aside". I very much do understand the idea that one already owns the 1500 or one simply can't afford the 1500. I also arbitrarily lump the "does not fit in the garage" into the economics category.

I suspect the reason you so rarely hear about this "preference" is because all that stuff I just excluded never ever gets excluded from most decisions. It may be more or less important, but it's not out of the picture.

That said, I very much like the way my F250 brakes compared to the 1500 I had before. Not a knock on the 1500, it was a fine truck. It's just doesn't have the brakes. It's still got about the rubber on the road so in some cases they will both just slide on forever and ever. Most of the time, the 250 wins.

Bob

[Wayward]

I tow a lot with both 3/4 and 1/2 ton and find both fine for towing the Airstream. I sometimes have to haul 10,000 lbs for which the 3/4 ton is mandatory. It pulls the Safari with ease - nice but still more truck than is needed.

The 1/2 ton has a few upgrades I consider essential for hauling the Airstream: 4:30 rear axle, extra spring leaf, oversized 'E' load tires, and upgraded shocks.

The greatest towing advantage of my 3/4 ton, regardless of how much is behind it , is the 6 speed tranny with integrated transmission and engine software. It adjusts shift patterns depending on load, grade and braking effort.

Once we set up camp and unhook, a 1/2 ton is nice to drive around.

[lsbrodsky]

Yeah, I did notice that this transmission would downshift when I hit the brakes for stuff. I do not recall my 1500 6-speed doing that or at least not as clearly.
Larry

[DoublTrouble]

Larry, congrats on your change. "Aluminating" isn't it ?
You are now the unofficial spoksperson of the 3/4 ton club.

[n2916s]

I have a "5/8" ton Nissan Titan XD with the 5 liter Cummins diesel. It replaced a 2004 Nissan Titan 5.6 liter gas 1/2 ton.

Yes, the diesel has great torque - starting all that mass moving is easier as is uphill pulling ( I never had a problem with the gasser, it was just loud as I had to turn 3600 rpm in 3rd to maintain 55 on a serious uphill climb)

But...

Diesel lanes are gross, almost always wth recent diesel spills so you get to enjoy that smell on your shoes and truck carpet.

DEF is annoying -- hate to carry another spare fluid.

The Regen cycle always, I mean always, starts about 5 miles from my destination.

Oil changes $65

Fuel filter swap $85

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

Yeah, I did notice that this transmission would downshift when I hit the brakes for stuff. I do not recall my 1500 6-speed doing that or at least not as clearly.
Larry

My F150 does that in tow/haul mode. It's a function of modernity more than truck size, it was added first in HD trucks when their transmissions were upgraded to 5- and 6-speeds with computer controls, it started for Ford half-tons with the 6R80 6-speed.

I wonder about the significance of the braking difference people talk about. It never seems to come out in tests... pickuptrucks.com has done empty-vs-loaded braking tests with half and 3/4 tons in the last few years and the 3/4 tons didn't show any advantage over the half-tons, though granted they loaded a few hundred pounds more in the 3/4 tons (which is why I dismiss the longer loaded stopping distances they got for the HD trucks... not much longer within the same brand, but a bit, and they were testing gassers in both tests so the 3/4 tons weren't carrying around the extra weight of the diesels.)

There's usually a noticeable improvement when one goes from an old truck to a new one. My '17 F150 is vastly more capable (and comfortable and luxurious and efficient) than my '07 was. Going from an old half-ton to a new 3/4 ton would certainly be a day-and-night difference, since over the years the HD trucks catch up in comfort with better suspension tuning and other tech. In your case you went from probably a 5.3 with 3.42 gears to a 6-liter with 4.10s. I'd be stunned if you didn't find that to be a lot more powerful.

I know there are a few who paint an HD truck as a *worse* choice for towing a small-to-medium Airstream, I'm not going there. Clearly they're more capable, they're built to be and have those over-the-top diesel setups in the upper price range for better bench-racing. Like Wayward, I recognize the benefits of each. Unlike Wayward, I never need to haul around 10k+ lb, and I'm not likely to be full- or even part-timing within the the 8ish years I plan to keep my current truck and use it as my daily driver in addition to tow vehicle. Horses for courses...

[wulfraat]

Alas. I too have made the switch after 8 years and 25k+ miles towing my 25' and 3k miles towing my new 30' with a 1/2 ton SUV platform.

Picked up a new gmc 2500 with duramax this week. Haven't towed yet but looking forward to the many miles to come. First trip with the new rig is in a couple weeks.

I didn't care very much for the pick up truck bed until I found a pretty cool and practical storage system (decked) that I'll be installing to organize all my stuff and mount bike rack to....

[lsbrodsky]

Wow! Do I get a badge to go with the honor? Can I put that on my business cards? I accept the honor!
Larry