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Old 03-17-2023, 08:08 PM   #21
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2019 25' Flying Cloud
Bullard,Lake Palestine , Texas
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Ram

Have 2019 FC 25 FBT
Tow with 2012 Ram 2500 6.7 diesel CCLWB
No worries
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:13 PM   #22
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2020 25' Globetrotter
Westboro , Massachusetts
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Thanks everyone! Some follow-ups

Thanks so much everyone for the excited congratulations - we are soooo excited. And, incredibly intimidated. I am so appreciative of the insight already provided. I test drove a Sierra Denali HD today - I do not want to sell ourselves short of what we need to tow, but I cannot imagine driving that around town for errands!

I have several follow-up questions - thanks for the continued help.

1 - Does the cargo you put into the trailer contribute to the hitch/tongue weight? I understand that something like full propane will contribute.
2 - What are some of the things you all load into your TVs that significantly contribute to the payload? Beyond people, a camping grill, and bikes, I'm not sure what we'd have in the truck bed. A generator, maybe?
3 - Several of you mentioned CAT scales - I'm sorry, but what are those?! Is it something that weighs the truck, or the trailer, or both?
4 - How do you determine how much weight is on the rear axle?
SuperChop mentions
Quote:
"Our F150ís rear axle was rated at about 3800 lbs, with a trailer similar in weight to yours. We were several hundred over that rating and moved to a gas F250."
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:19 PM   #23
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Lots of thoughtful advice previously posted.

Our 2020 F-150 Lariat with 1550# payload was fine for short trips in a 25FB. But for our more common seven-week trips we didnít have enough payload to carry the extra gear. Sure, we could load up the trailer but then we would have to shift it to the truck at every campsite. That got old really fast. And occasionally the truck felt like the trailer was in charge.

Our 2022 F-250 gasser with its 3000# payload better suits our camping style. It is not our daily driver.

Weights measured at the scale.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TNOutback View Post
I’m one to respect and trust the engineered limits of the truck, and I couldn’t make the math work for our FC 25RB; it was right on the payload/GVWR limits and less than 100 lbs from the rear axle rating. I traded into a F250 with the 6.2L gas engine and very happy with the decision. Heavy duty transmission, massive brakes and 3,236 lbs of payload capacity, which allowed me to also put a camper shell on the truck and never worry about the safety and capability of the truck.
X2 on this …

I also started with F-150, 25RBT FC, and had similar numbers cited above, and I upgraded to an F-250 (gas) for payload margin *and* significantly more stability towing at highway speed. It’s very difficult to convey the difference if you have not towed with both … the F-150 feels “soft” and gets pushed around by the trailer, and the F-250 feels solid and holds the trailer in check. Lots of folks tow with a 150 (or equivalent) but my experience is that the 250 gives me much much more peace of mind on my towing days. Best of luck with your decision, and congrats on the new trailer.
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Old 03-17-2023, 09:48 PM   #25
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Things can be done to improve (reduce) tongue weight and make towing with a half ton truck practical with some careful attention to the weight of cargo in the tow vehicle and trailer.

We have a 2022 Globetrotter 27fb twin that had a 1060 lb tongue weight as measured by a cat scale on the way home from picking up our trailer from the dealer. The tongue weight value includes our 94.5 lb Eaz-lift Elite 1000 WD hitch and 2x 14.5lb Husky friction anti-sway bars.

To reduce the tongue weight, we deleted the 142lb interstate AGM batteries and swapped out the steel propane tanks for aluminum. We also added 326lbs of LiFePO4 batteries and a 48lb inverter over the rear axle of the trailer with a bit of the weight extending a foot or so to the rear of the aft most axle.

Net effect is the trailer tongue weight is now 813lbs for the nearly fully loaded trailer (including most of our gear, but not food or clothing yet).

We comfortably tow this 27 ft Airstream with a 2016 Porsche Cayenne S with a Can Am RV reinforced hitch and their semi custom Eaz-lift Elite 1000 hitch. Our payload sticker says 1128lbs that includes a budget for a 150 lb driver (e.g. a 1278lb total capacity for payload).

82% of the 813 lb payload ends up on the Cayenne axles after WD tension is applied = 666 lbs. So we end up with 1278-666 = 611 lbs for passengers and cargo. With driver and passenger at 450lbs (yeah, don't say it...:-), LOL), we have 161 lbs available for gear and we have less than 100lbs we carry in the Cayenne.

We are thus below the GVWR and GAWR ratings for the Cayenne S and with 420HP and 406ft-lbs of torque at 1350rpm, it tows as well as a diesel engine based truck. The Cayenne also has a lower center of gravity vs a heavy duty truck and much larger 4 wheel disc brakes designed for rapidly dissipating braking heat on a racetrack. Side benefit: when we unhook the trailer, we have a nimble vehicle to drive around.

Conclusion: You don't need a 3/4 ton truck. But, towing with a 1/2 ton or equivalent vehicle like a Cayenne or Audi Q7 requires education as to all the tow limit and weight carrying specs for the tow vehicle, a properly configured and tuned WD hitch, and careful management of the weight of the cargo added to the the tow vehicle and the trailer and also the location of the weight inside each. CAT scale visits at the beginning of each trip are advisable to assess impact of any loading changes. You cannot or should not simply throw cargo in the trailer and tow vehicle and expect to remain safely within the manufacturer weight ratings and have a stable towing situation.

Or, get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with 2000-3000lb payload rating and forget about having to manage all of this :-;
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Old 03-18-2023, 09:21 AM   #26
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Thumbs up !

Or, get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck with 2000-3000lb payload rating and forget about having to manage all of this :-;
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Old 03-18-2023, 11:52 AM   #27
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I will also add I do miss my F-150; it was comfortable and quiet and was our long drive vehicle, much more comfortable on longer trips than the wife’s Honda Accord. However, I opted for safety and capability in towing rather than comfort and maneuverability when not towing.

I do urge you, if you have the opportunity, to weigh the truck at a CAT scale full of fuel, or even packed as if you were going to go camping. Subtract that weight from the truck’s GVWR and you’ll know then how much weight you have to work with. On my F-150, for whatever reason, the payload sticker didn’t reflect very well my empty truck with just a driver in it.
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Old 03-18-2023, 12:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curran View Post
Thanks so much everyone for the excited congratulations - we are soooo excited. And, incredibly intimidated. I am so appreciative of the insight already provided. I test drove a Sierra Denali HD today - I do not want to sell ourselves short of what we need to tow, but I cannot imagine driving that around town for errands!

I have several follow-up questions - thanks for the continued help.

1 - Does the cargo you put into the trailer contribute to the hitch/tongue weight? I understand that something like full propane will contribute.
2 - What are some of the things you all load into your TVs that significantly contribute to the payload? Beyond people, a camping grill, and bikes, I'm not sure what we'd have in the truck bed. A generator, maybe?
3 - Several of you mentioned CAT scales - I'm sorry, but what are those?! Is it something that weighs the truck, or the trailer, or both?
4 - How do you determine how much weight is on the rear axle?
SuperChop mentions
Glad to hear youíre making progress.

A CAT scale is a certified, automatic truck scale. They are commonly found at truck stops like Loveís, Pilot Flying J, etc. You can register for a free account at weighmytruck.com and set up a profile. You can then download an app for your phone that makes it easy to use the scale. The CAT scale can give you very valuable information about the weight on each of your tow vehicle axles as well as your trailer axles.

Payload adds up quickly. It includes: passengers, pets, the trailer hitch weight, luggage, etc.

Things like generators, gasoline or propane, e-bikes, kayaks, coolers full of beverages, toolboxes, fire pits, etc. all contribute to the weight.
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Old 03-18-2023, 02:31 PM   #29
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Original OP: I have several follow-up questions

Responses are in-line in between your questions:

1 - Does the cargo you put into the trailer contribute to the hitch/tongue weight? I understand that something like full propane will contribute.

Yes and no. It depends, LOL.

Everything you load into the trailer (including water) adds to the trailer total cargo weight and reduces your remaining trailer payload capacity. Please note that your trailer has a max payload too and not just the tow vehicle.

The impact on the tongue weight depends on where the cargo load is placed in your trailer.

Loads in front of your trailer axles are shared between the trailer axles and the hitch ball (i.e. adds to the tongue weight).

Loads on top of your axle(s) do not contribute to tongue weight.

Loads placed to the rear of your axles will serve to reduce the tongue weight, but tend to make the trailer less stable when towing and contribute to "porpoising" or "hobby horsing". Hobby horsing is when you have placed significant loads well in front or way towards the rear of the trailer and away from the trailer center of gravity and then hit a bump in the road. Your trailer will rock back and forth like children on a see-saw and yank the ball of your tow vehicle up and down. Not a pretty picture when it happens and is unsafe.

The message is that load placement matters. Try and keep the heaviest loads over the trailer axles and in front of the axles if it doesn't fit over the axles. Anything in front of the axles contributes to tongue weight so only put light stuff in the front of the trailer.

If the tongue weight gets too light, the tow configuration can become unstable. You want to weigh your trailer when fully loaded and ensure that the tongue weight is between 10% and 15% of the total weight of the trailer in order to have the right stability when towing.

2 - What are some of the things you all load into your TVs that significantly contribute to the payload? Beyond people, a camping grill, and bikes, I'm not sure what we'd have in the truck bed. A generator, maybe?

Everything that you put into the tow vehicle contributes to the payload carried by the tow vehicle. Water bottles, a candy bar, diaper bag, generators, camping chairs, charcoal, firewood, a 6 pack of beer, the missus and the kids, etc. You get the idea. If you are payload challenged like I am, I weigh everything before it goes into the tow vehicle. Be careful about demanding to weigh the wife though, that can be dicey :-)

3 - Several of you mentioned CAT scales - I'm sorry, but what are those?! Is it something that weighs the truck, or the trailer, or both?

CAT scales are commercial truck scales that are commonly available at truck stops. You pull onto the scales with your tow vehicle and trailer and the CAT scale provides a report of the weight on each of the axles. You weigh your setup in 3 passes (Tow vehicle only, tow vehicle + trailer with WD engaged, and tow vehicle + trailer with WD tension bars disengaged) and plug the data into a commonly available spreadsheet. The spreadsheet will then calculate whether you meet all of your tow vehicle and trailer weight limits, including tongue weight. I created my own spreadsheet based on the on-line descriptions of how to do the 3 pass method. It's not difficult. Google is your friend.

Note: you need to go to the CAT scale with everything fully loaded. Load the trailer and the tow vehicle (this includes Fido, the wifey, kids, etc. e.g. everything). Full tank of water in the trailer and hopefully empty black and grey tanks.

Another note: The first CAT scale weigh-in is usually around 12 to 14 bucks. Any additional weigh sessions within 24 hours is at a reduced cost, like another few dollars for each weigh session. So the 3 pass cost is tractable.

4 - How do you determine how much weight is on the rear axle?

See #3 above. You will get the weight on the tow vehicle front axle, rear axle, and the trailer axles from the CAT scale data, along with the spreadsheet calculated value for the tongue weight and the comparative information you need in order to compare with the tow vehicle GVWR, GAWR and GCWR ratings if you have included that information in the spreadsheet when you constructed it.

I hope this helps.
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Old 03-18-2023, 04:29 PM   #30
r3z
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We tow our 2022 GT FBT with a RAM 2500 and Andersen hitch. Ours has air suspension and it helps level it all out and soften the ride.
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Old 03-19-2023, 11:05 AM   #31
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Forest Lake , Minnesota
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Quote:
Be careful about demanding to weigh the wife though, that can be dicey :-)
LOL. From personal experience, best to estimate this.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. We're moving to a 25' from our 16' Bambi where we weren't nearly as concerned about weight being well within specs for our TV (could be we overloaded the Bambi though). Nice to have these details in one place.
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Old 03-22-2023, 11:17 AM   #32
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No

Add 100 to 150 and you will be just fine gas or diesel your choice
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Old 03-22-2023, 01:59 PM   #33
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Good Discussion

The forum has plenty similar treads to this one. But, I learn from them all. Good comments all, and congrats on the AS purchase.


One comment that I haven't seen, so I'll add: Fuel Mileage. We started with a 23FB Int'l that we towed with a short wheel-base F150 Eco Boost, but no max tow package. For fuel mileage, we averaged 10mpg.


We now tow a FC 25RBT with an F250 Diesel (3.31 axles, 10sp) with high capacity tow package. I'm an XLT guy, and like regular cab, so its as short of an F250 as you can get (wb 141). After an initial visit to the scales, we don't even consider what we put in the truck (payload 3400+, GCWR 30,000). However, the point is that we get better fuel mileage towing the 25RBT with the F250 than we got with the F150 towing a 23FB. We average just under 14mpg with the F250 Diesel pulling the 25RBT. We don't ever drive faster than 65mph while towing, but that was the same with the F150 pulling the 23FB.


I agree, there are lots of reasons to not go with a 3/4 ton, but fuel is not one of them. We fill up at truck stops using the truck lanes. We have a fuel card discount of about $0.50 per gallon depending on the truck stop. Driving the F250 unloaded on the highway I average about 20mpg. Around town -- I avoid driving it!
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Old 03-23-2023, 04:46 AM   #34
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250

Thanks again all! We ended up getting a 250 based on all the feedback here. Hereís to not having to stress about payload!!
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Old 03-23-2023, 09:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
We have a fuel card discount of about $0.50 per gallon depending on the truck stop
As an aside - what card is this? Wex Fleet sent me an application but I can't tell if it saves much.
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Old 03-24-2023, 08:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by JeffKim View Post
As an aside - what card is this? Wex Fleet sent me an application but I can't tell if it saves much.

We use TSD Logistics -- Open Roads App


https://www.tsdlogistics.com/services/fuel-program/


We've been very pleased with it, even-though not enough agreements in our local area.
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:01 PM   #37
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Thanks again all! We ended up getting a 250 based on all the feedback here. Hereís to not having to stress about payload!!
Good decision. Did that too for GT 25FBQ. A 150 would tow it well but then you'd be always running up against how much you can bring with you. With our RAM 2500, we don't bother counting payload anymore. There's plenty of room.
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
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We just bought a 2020 25ft FBT Globetrotter! Now, we're looking at tow vehicles. We *think* we've landed on a Ford F150, with the following specs, but wondered if others with similar trailers have experience with a similarly spec'd F150 and can speak to how happy they are. I really appreciate any insight - we are BRAND NEW to this entire adventure!

Airstream
Dry Weight6,074 lbs.
Payload Capacity1,226 lbs.
GVWR7,300 lbs.
Hitch Weight882 lbs.

F150, we understand:
Payload 1830
Tow capacity 11,000
2021 4x4 Supercrew
3.5 Powerboost Hybrid
3.73 electronic lock rr axle
7350 GVWR package
trailer tow package with integrated trailer brake control

Good to go
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:13 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by r3z View Post
We tow our 2022 GT FBT with a RAM 2500 and Andersen hitch. Ours has air suspension and it helps level it all out and soften the ride.
ABSOLUTELY need to soften the forces on the AS. 3/4 and 1 ton suspensions are rough on the AS.
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Old 03-30-2023, 05:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Curran View Post
Thanks again all! We ended up getting a 250 based on all the feedback here. Hereís to not having to stress about payload!!
Congratulations on your F250! I think you made the right decision, and future-proofed it when you trade into a longer trailer.

We just finished our 2nd trip in the new F250 XLT Crew with the 6.2L and FC 25RB - a 1600 mile round trip. The truck-trailer combo did outstanding. As my last big trailer I was pulling with a Duramax diesel, I had to get used to the higher revving of the 6.2L gas engine since peak torque is in the higher RPMs. Iím very pleased with the truck, and the deep growl of the exhaust when it downshifts isnít a bad sound either.
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