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Old 09-22-2022, 07:06 PM   #1
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2023 F-150 is no longer available with Heavy Duty Payload Package..

.. Unless you get a Regular Cab model.

Looks like I’m back to square one in a TV search. I really need to avoid an HD truck since I work in an urban environment but I’m not seeing a way around it unless I want to approach or moderately exceed payload capacity.

Caveat being this was one dealer telling me this - I haven’t verified elsewhere.

For reference, I was looking for an XLT Crew Cab 6.5’ bed which is required for HDPP. I need the Crew Cab.

Towing a 27FBT. Last measured tongue weight was 1025 I believe (with 225# or so coming from the 3P hitch).
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:36 PM   #2
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:44 PM   #3
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Depends on payload capacity and how much additional weight he carries in the bed of the truck. Says he needs a crew cab, may have several heavy kids. May work for you, may not work for someone else.
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Old 09-22-2022, 08:59 PM   #4
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I was really just surprised that this was the case and am curious if anyone else had heard the same. The dealer replied that the HDPP is not listed on their 2023 order form and is checking with the rep directly tomorrow. We will see…

We are a family of 4 - kids are small now but they won’t be forever. We live in the SE and have no real ambitions to drag our trailer out west. Not saying it won’t happen, but not something we’ve talked about.

So no really big mountains for us. We work full time and are mostly weekend warriors. If we took a long trip, I’d be fine going a little slower - 1400 miles down to FL is our longest stint so far. We already own a ProPride hitch and love it.

I see that I can get a Sierra SLT at approximately a 1780 payload and understand I could spec a Ford similarly. A friend of mine has an F-150 Platinum with 3.5EB and 6.5’ bed. He tows a 36’ SOB and has no real issues. Pretty sure he’s significantly over payload but well under the tow rating which seems to not mean much anymore. His mileage sucks but that’s what the 36 gallon tank is for.

If I went GM, I’d probably go with the SLT and 6.2L with the 10-speed. With the Ford, I’d probably go XLT and 3.5EB. Of course life is better while towing in an HD truck but my daily life would be a headache in such a vehicle. Weekly commuting is minimal at about 70 miles total which includes errands, work meetings, etc.

For reference, I’m towing with a Tahoe now with a few key upgrades. Approximate payload capacity is about 1650.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:34 AM   #5
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You may want to look into actual dimensions between the half-ton and HD trucks. For example, for a SRW truck in the Ram lineup:


1500 Max width: 79.9", Max height: 77.5"

2500 Max width: 79.4", Max height: 80.2"


Length is really the dimension that's going to determine how much of a headache the truck is to drive in an urban setting and you control that. Skip the mega cab or 8 foot bed options on a HD and you've got a truck that's very similar in size to its half-ton cousin.


A HD truck won't ride as nice and it might be a little more effort to climb into, but I wouldn't rule it out before looking at the actual dimensions for your brand of choice.
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Old 09-23-2022, 07:44 AM   #6
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highly recommend the used truck market via CarMax. Nationwide inventory, inspect before purchase, warranty, no hassle purchase.
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Old 09-23-2022, 07:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT2513 View Post
.. Unless you get a Regular Cab model.

Looks like I’m back to square one in a TV search. I really need to avoid an HD truck since I work in an urban environment but I’m not seeing a way around it unless I want to approach or moderately exceed payload capacity.

Caveat being this was one dealer telling me this - I haven’t verified elsewhere.

For reference, I was looking for an XLT Crew Cab 6.5’ bed which is required for HDPP. I need the Crew Cab.

Towing a 27FBT. Last measured tongue weight was 1025 I believe (with 225# or so coming from the 3P hitch).
In a quick look at Ford's 2023 F150 Order Guide, 7/18/22 edition
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/atta...9b88f5b1352020

Max trailer tow package (option 53C) and heavy duty payload package (HDPP, Option 627) are available in crew cab 5.5' or 6.5' bed, 4x4 or 4x2 XL trim only configuration for 2023. You'll req the 3.5 or 5 ltr engine.
I did not see the combo option offered on any high trim versions, all they offered was the Max trailer tow option.

I maybe wrong but review yourself. Be worth challenging your dealer with the linked doc. Often, I needed to correct (educate) or direct my Salesman to the requisite order guide.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Acheron2010 View Post
highly recommend the used truck market via CarMax. Nationwide inventory, inspect before purchase, warranty, no hassle purchase.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to locate an F-150 with the HDPP. Most dealers aren't even aware it exists, there typically isn't an option to search for this package specifically, and the only tell-tale sign are the type of wheels they equip it with from the factory and even that isn't 100%. Bed length is the other factor but they seem to change out which configurations they offer this on so its kind of a crap-shoot depending on the model year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTRIDE View Post
In a quick look at Ford's 2023 F150 Order Guide, 7/18/22 edition
https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/atta...9b88f5b1352020

Max trailer tow package (option 53C) and heavy duty payload package (HDPP, Option 627) are available in crew cab 5.5' or 6.5' bed, 4x4 or 4x2 XL trim only configuration for 2023. You'll req the 3.5 or 5 ltr engine.
I did not see the combo option offered on any high trim versions, all they offered was the Max trailer tow option.

I maybe wrong but review yourself. Be worth challenging your dealer with the linked doc. Often, I needed to correct (educate) or direct my Salesman to the requisite order guide.
Interesting... I'm going to explore this further. Not opposed to the XL but not sure if I can sell it to the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler2you View Post
You may want to look into actual dimensions between the half-ton and HD trucks. For example, for a SRW truck in the Ram lineup:


1500 Max width: 79.9", Max height: 77.5"

2500 Max width: 79.4", Max height: 80.2"


Length is really the dimension that's going to determine how much of a headache the truck is to drive in an urban setting and you control that. Skip the mega cab or 8 foot bed options on a HD and you've got a truck that's very similar in size to its half-ton cousin.


A HD truck won't ride as nice and it might be a little more effort to climb into, but I wouldn't rule it out before looking at the actual dimensions for your brand of choice.
In my case, length and height are limiting factors. I tend to park in parking decks fairly regularly - just a week ago I had to make way for a 2500 backing out from one level up after climbing into a parking deck that became too short for it (or maybe he didn't want to take the chance) and he couldn't turn around. We have a car that I could swap with on those days but still kinda inconvenient.

FWIW, we rented a 3/4 ton diesel for 10 days last year and I'm pretty familiar with how they tow now. It was great - no two ways about it - aside from having to learn about and deal with DEF. But even parking it in non-urban parking areas was a bit of a headache at times.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:59 AM   #9
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"I maybe wrong but review yourself. Be worth challenging your dealer with the linked doc. Often, I needed to correct (educate) or direct my Salesman to the requisite order guide."

I agree with challenging the dealer. All too often I've found the salespeople to know very little about the vehicle they were selling. Of course there are exceptions, but not many IMHO.
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Old 09-23-2022, 10:30 AM   #10
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Just a data point. I pull at 2018 FC25FB with a 2019 F150 XLT shortbed super crew (about the same tongue weight as yours). My factory payload is 1850. I, too, need to use this as my daily driver and the idea of a 250 wasn’t appealing. I needed to stay with the XLT trim, sadly, to even get this payload but may have changed with the 2023s.

Stock I wasn’t at all happy with the porpoising the soft suspension on the F150. It was clearly at the edge of its payload. With a couple of upgrades I’ve been able to settle everything down where it tows well and seems happy about it.

The major changes were to switch to Bilstein shocks and the Roadmaster active suspension. . In a previous truck I had airbags in the back instead of the active suspension and worked fine as well. People will tell you that these suspension support systems don’t increase payload and so on. While that’s legally true, I can tell you that they make a world of difference in how the truck tows by firming up the suspension when needed.

You will always be close to the payload edge with a F150 with these heavy trailers but sometimes we have to decide what compromises to make. All I can tell you is after 20,000 miles of towing with this configuration I’ve never been tempted to go to a bigger truck. I never feel unsafe. Would a F250 be better, sure. Would I want to drive one in the city every day? Nope!
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Old 09-23-2022, 10:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daleyocum View Post
Just a data point. I pull at 2018 FC25FB with a 2019 F150 XLT shortbed super crew (about the same tongue weight as yours). My factory payload is 1850. I, too, need to use this as my daily driver and the idea of a 250 wasn’t appealing. I needed to stay with the XLT trim, sadly, to even get this payload but may have changed with the 2023s.
Any options to speak of on your XLT? Chrome appearance package, etc.? If I deprioritize payload (within reason), then the options really open up.

My Tahoe now has the factory Air-Ride system which makes a huge difference. It's also equipped with LT tires, a massive transmission cooler, HD springs, drilled and slotted brake rotors, a ProPride hitch, and I've removed the 3rd row seats. Good news is that I also have the transmission which can lock out OD for towing which was an "ah-ha" moment for me. Bad news is I have the 4-speed transmission so it really screams going up a 6% grade. It has 195k miles on it - probably 20k or so of that is while towing. It's 14 years old so I don't trust it as much as I used to. We can still average over 10mpg on a trip.
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Old 09-23-2022, 01:14 PM   #12
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As far as availability, there seems to be a serious supply problem because pickup owners on this side of the border are being offered deals by dealers to get their hands on our trucks to be able to resell them on the US side. I've had phone calls and letters to get my 2018 GMC 2500HD (diesel).

If this is going to be your daily driver, then I understand that a 3/4 ton can be seen as a bit much. I had airbags put on mine and to be honest it rides very comfortably. It won't get into an underground garage downtown (we have a little Honda for that) but it sure does a great, safe job when we travel with the Airstream, especially on mountain roads. No regrets.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler2you View Post
Length is really the dimension that's going to determine how much of a headache the truck is to drive in an urban setting and you control that. Skip the mega cab or 8 foot bed options on a HD and you've got a truck that's very similar in size to its half-ton cousin.


A HD truck won't ride as nice and it might be a little more effort to climb into, but I wouldn't rule it out before looking at the actual dimensions for your brand of choice.
I've been studying the 1500 and 2500 Crew Cab offerings from Chevy and GMC. Going with a 2500 does force you into a longer vehicle. First, you can get a 1500 with either a "short" or "standard" bed, but on the 2500, it's either "standard" or "long". Second, "standard" is 79.4 inches on the 1500 and 82.3 inches on the 2500. Length overall is 231.9 for a short bed 1500, 241.4 for a standard bed 1500, and 250.0 for a standard bed 2500. Turning circle ranges from 46.9 feet to 52.7 feet.

We test drove all three configurations and found the difference in maneuverability to be significant. We now have an order in for a 1500 short bed.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:12 PM   #14
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I've been studying the 1500 and 2500 Crew Cab offerings from Chevy and GMC. Going with a 2500 does force you into a longer vehicle. First, you can get a 1500 with either a "short" or "standard" bed, but on the 2500, it's either "standard" or "long". Second, "standard" is 79.4 inches on the 1500 and 82.3 inches on the 2500. Length overall is 231.9 for a short bed 1500, 241.4 for a standard bed 1500, and 250.0 for a standard bed 2500.

Sounds like a good reason to get a Ram


1500 Crew Cab, Standard bed overall length: 241.8"


2500 Crew Cab, Standard bed overall length: 238.8


Too many compromises to consider a short bed truck IMO.


Ram 2500 CC, Standard Bed Turning Circle is 48'
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:37 PM   #15
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When comparing Ford crew cab trucks with 6.5'/6.75' beds, the wheelbase difference is negligible. According to the Ford web site, the F150 wheelbase is 157.2" while the F250 wheelbase is 159.8" or a 2.6" difference.

Also, according to the Ford website the F150 is 243.5" long and 77.6" high at the cab while the F250 is 250" long and 79.3 high. I don't think 6.5" is really noticeable when talking over 20' of length or 1.6" is that impactful on parking options.
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Old 09-24-2022, 02:34 AM   #16
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Any options to speak of on your XLT? Chrome appearance package, etc.? If I deprioritize payload (within reason), then the options really open up.

My Tahoe now has the factory Air-Ride system which makes a huge difference. It's also equipped with LT tires, a massive transmission cooler, HD springs, drilled and slotted brake rotors, a ProPride hitch, and I've removed the 3rd row seats. Good news is that I also have the transmission which can lock out OD for towing which was an "ah-ha" moment for me. Bad news is I have the 4-speed transmission so it really screams going up a 6% grade. It has 195k miles on it - probably 20k or so of that is while towing. It's 14 years old so I don't trust it as much as I used to. We can still average over 10mpg on a trip.
My XLT is the 3.5 Ecoboost 4x4 Sport interior with the 502a option package which gets you CarPlay, bigger screen and a bunch of other things. Still cloth seats and no moonroof. I’d love adaptive cruse control and 360 cameras but those are only in higher (heavier) trim packages. I’ve never felt underpowered with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine which is amazing in the mountains where we spend most of our time.
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Old 09-26-2022, 09:16 AM   #17
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When comparing Ford crew cab trucks with 6.5'/6.75' beds, the wheelbase difference is negligible. According to the Ford web site, the F150 wheelbase is 157.2" while the F250 wheelbase is 159.8" or a 2.6" difference.

Also, according to the Ford website the F150 is 243.5" long and 77.6" high at the cab while the F250 is 250" long and 79.3 high. I don't think 6.5" is really noticeable when talking over 20' of length or 1.6" is that impactful on parking options.
A quick survey of the downtown parking decks indicates that 7.0' is the lowest clearance. While it appears that a stock F-250 will fit, its a little close. Will investigate further..
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Old 09-26-2022, 09:35 AM   #18
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A quick survey of the downtown parking decks indicates that 7.0' is the lowest clearance. While it appears that a stock F-250 will fit, its a little close. Will investigate further..
That's been my experience trying to park our Suburban 2500 in parking garages, although I have run across a couple which were 6' 8". That was a cringe worthy moment, even with a spotter standing alongside watching the roof rack. We made it, but barely.
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Old 09-26-2022, 10:37 AM   #19
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I know that GMC is still offering the Max Trailering Package for the new Sierra 1500 for an additional $1,125. I don’t know which trim levels can be equipped with this package.

All Features Included With Max Trailering Package:
  • Trailering Package
  • Integrated trailer brake controller, integrated with the antilock brake system (ABS)
  • Increased towing and GCWR
  • Automatic locking rear differential
  • Handling/Trailering Suspension Package
  • Enhanced cooling radiator
  • Revised shock tuning
  • Heavier duty rear springs and increased RGAWR
  • 9.76" rear axle
  • 3.42 axle ratio (gas engine), 3.73 axle ratio (diesel engine)
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:11 AM   #20
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I know that GMC is still offering the Max Trailering Package for the new Sierra 1500 for an additional $1,125. I don’t know which trim levels can be equipped with this package.
Ford offers 2 packages to increase towing/hauling performance. One is a maximum towing package that includes most of the things that the GM package does. In addition to that, Ford also offers a HDPP package that increases the payload to near-3/4 ton levels. Over the years this package has been available on different trims (originally XL, XLT, & Lariat), recently only on XL & XLT, and currently only on XL trims.
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