2023 F-150 is no longer available with Heavy Duty Payload Package..

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Jwf

I haven't calculated it but the specs list it at 1175 LBS. My F150 has a 1400 lb TW capacity.

According to the CAT scale that leaves me about 300 lbs of payload with my wife and I in the cab.

The other interesting thing is the axle code is 3L. As best as I can determine that's an axle from a super duty too. It's not listed for an F-150.

Payload= tongue weight from your AS, + hitch, + all your baggage in the bed, and also includes driver and all passengers. You should weigh your tongue weight to get actual numbers. My 28' is actually 1100lbs loaded; spec for my year/model is listed at 976lbs. My F150 payload was way too low to tow anything larger than a 23' AS. My F250 works great with payload of 2200lbs. If it's important to you, weigh your rig so you know actual numbers.

[jlydell]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Payload= tongue weight from your AS, + hitch, + all your baggage in the bed, and also includes driver and all passengers. You should weigh your tongue weight to get actual numbers. My 28' is actually 1100lbs loaded; spec for my year/model is listed at 976lbs. My F150 payload was way too low to tow anything larger than a 23' AS. My F250 works great with payload of 2200lbs. If it's important to you, weigh your rig so you know actual numbers.

He's measuring at a CAT scale. If you put a truck and trailer on a scale, and can see you are within limits of axles and GVWR, you don't need to do anything extra to figure out if you are in-spec.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jlydell

He's measuring at a CAT scale. If you put a truck and trailer on a scale, and can see you are within limits of axles and GVWR, you don't need to do anything extra to figure out if you are in-spec.

To know your overall GVWR I agree; but to get actual tongue weight and trailer weight, will give you individual weights, including your tongue weight independent, assuming you haven't measured tongue on different method/scale. Doesn't help to know GVWR if your tongue weight puts way over your payload limits and of course, your limits on the Class hitch on your TV. Not sure how someone would not want to know where you are against MFG limits on payload and hitch class limits?

[jlydell]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

To know your overall GVWR I agree; but to get actual tongue weight and trailer weight, will give you individual weights, including your tongue weight independent, assuming you haven't measured tongue on different method/scale. Doesn't help to know GVWR if your tongue weight puts way over your payload limits and of course, your limits on the Class hitch on your TV. Not sure how someone would not want to know where you are against MFG limits on payload and hitch class limits?

I could see the point if you were up against the class limits of a hitch, but payload is simply an expression of GVWR less the curb weight. You won't find a situation where a tow vehicle is within its GVWR and over payload, he's already measured that.

[Downsized]

I think all legacy truck makers will start to push clients to 3/4 ton trucks and full size SUV’s as they are exempt from the 2035 ZEV mandates. The reality is many 1/2 tons are knocking on the door of 3/4 ton capacity anyways.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by Downsized

I think all legacy truck makers will start to push clients to 3/4 ton trucks and full size SUV’s as they are exempt from the 2035 ZEV mandates. The reality is many 1/2 tons are knocking on the door of 3/4 ton capacity anyways.

You would think that’d lead to folks like GMC to have a Yukon HD on the lot, but they don’t…

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by LNBright

You would think that’d lead to folks like GMC to have a Yukon HD on the lot, but they don’t…

Yah I hear ya. Last year they were rare as hens teeth. There seem to be a few this year. Great towing solution for the medium and larger trailers.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jlydell

I could see the point if you were up against the class limits of a hitch, but payload is simply an expression of GVWR less the curb weight. You won't find a situation where a tow vehicle is within its GVWR and over payload, he's already measured that.

I see this argument "sometimes" here. And I understand how it is calculated, but legally in many states you are required to be under the payload limits from the Mfg. for Payload and/or tow capacity. Plus being over your vehicle payload limits can affect handling of your vehicle, just like being beyond the towing capacity can affect handling. Exceeding either of these can also cause your insurance to void, should something happen. Many articles on payload, towing capacity, and GVWR you can look up yourself if your not convinced staying under payload limits on the Mfg. sticker, is important.

[LNBright]

Originally Posted by Downsized

Yah I hear ya. Last year they were rare as hens teeth. There seem to be a few this year. Great towing solution for the medium and larger trailers.

They’ve not been made in years; I really wish they’d put them into production again.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I see this argument "sometimes" here. And I understand how it is calculated, but legally in many states you are required to be under the payload limits from the Mfg. for Payload and/or tow capacity. Plus being over your vehicle payload limits can affect handling of your vehicle, just like being beyond the towing capacity can affect handling. Exceeding either of these can also cause your insurance to void, should something happen. Many articles on payload, towing capacity, and GVWR you can look up yourself if your not convinced staying under payload limits on the Mfg. sticker, is important.

We see this claim frequently here. The regulated weight is generally GVWR, and payload varies as a function of curb weight. Lighten your vehicle, and payload increases, even in jurisdictions that apply GVWR limits to other than commercial carriers.

Do you have an example for a state that is enforcing door jamb payload labels?

[rodsterinfl]

The Ford F150 Heavy Duty Payload Pkg can also be identified by the body ID #7850

It is difficult to pin down what exactly gives the trucks that. Accessories for sure take payload but the overall standard config is 6700#, 6800#, the hybrid is 7350#. There is also a 7650 and a 7850. I believe the only difference in the latter is one is 17" wheels and tires and the other is 18" wheels and tires with different capacities and load limits.

As far as danger of overloading, it is a valid concern. I live in the most litigious state in the US. Any time something happens and people or insurance are involved, attorneys peruse the situation looking for any money maker whether for the individual or the insurance agency. If a fault can be found it will be used. We have something like 3X more litigation than any other state- FL. Overloaded vehicles would be a juicy morsel for them to make some cash and fairly black and white.

[jlydell]

Whoever these overloaded vehicles are, they aren’t the people who have scaled their vehicles and confirmed they are within their weights.

[FMSports]

There 's a guy who tows Airstreams for a living, goes by axle ratings and GCVWR for the chassis (not model). It's all about setup and mods that improve tow performance. He runs an RAM1500 diesel like me and same mods for "max two" which comprises of:
Tow package (controller and hitch upgrade)
WDH and adjustment
Airbag augmentation
Brake upgrade
Spacers
Shock upgrade
Lithium battery for the TV
Quality tires

Verndiesel says
"we have not talked about the payload sticker or stacked up weight guesstimates. That’s right because it’s largely irrelevant information with respect to setting up a safe stable within the limits tow. Now you are in the know and can tow like a pro. Instead of being lead by blind parrots that infest TT forums"

I looked at the max payload options, they are not necessarily optimal for towing.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jcl

We see this claim frequently here. The regulated weight is generally GVWR, and payload varies as a function of curb weight. Lighten your vehicle, and payload increases, even in jurisdictions that apply GVWR limits to other than commercial carriers.

Do you have an example for a state that is enforcing door jamb payload labels?

Each state is difference. There are many posts on this topic on line, as you likely know? Which states are enforcing this likely is not as important; unless there is an accident. Then come the ramifications of insurance and potentially legality also, for driving outside the Mfg. payload and/or towing limits. Are you saying in Canada, there are no laws about exceeding Mfg. limits?

Here is an excerpt from one article available on the net I Googled today regarding payload:

"As a driver, you may be concerned with the payload capacity of your vehicle. You may want to know if there is a way to legally increase the payload capacity of your vehicle.

The payload capacity of a vehicle is determined by the manufacturer, and the maximum capacity is determined by the vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) – this is the maximum recommended weight of the vehicle, including the weight of the vehicle itself, any passengers, and any cargo or equipment. This number is determined by the manufacturer and cannot be exceeded legally."

You can increase the payload capacity by modifying some components like rear end, shocks, springs, etc., but likely will have a hard time with insurance and legally should something happen if your still over the Mfg. limits of that vehicle.

I posted my experience where my son and several friends were on a ski trip to Colorado. The driver lost control during a snow storm androlled our Expedition. One passenger was severely injured. They sued us, we sued Ford, and our Insurance got involved asking questions of the passengers about weights including luggage, skis, etc. Fortunately, Firestone tires were suspect at the time, and Ford ended up paying hospital and vehicle costs. My point is, "most folks" don't want "being over Mfg. limits" to be an issue should an accident happen.

You likely also, would have a real hard time "proving" you were under GVWR if you were over payload, for folks with this argument, should there be an accident.

Rather than convincing you different, why not call your insurance folks, and ask them about exceeding the Mfg. limits for payload and towing and get back to us here. Not sure how relevant this is in your case anyway JCL, since you don't own an Airstream, right?

[FMSports]

It makes logical sense that axle ratings are the limiting factor.
In Canada, load to what you want. However a cop could pull you over and send for inspection or determine if unsafe.

While on the ferry there was a guy in an old 1/2 ton with a big hot-tub on his bed, and another on a trailer. He was on the bump-stops both axles.

Insurance in BC here is no-fault (no litigation).


The feedback on the max payload package is stiff ride (of course) and ornery handling. With WDH there is no need to have it, unless you are transporting a skid of gold bars.

[jlydell]

The law in BC is you need to be inside your GAWR's and your GVWR. The word "payload" is only defined in supplemental materials as the GVWR less the weight of your vehicle, little yellow stickers need not apply. This makes sense to me because the best way to weigh a vehicle is park it on a scale and see what it says.

I'm not going to review all 60 states and provinces rules manually, but checking up on Texas, they are using the same values when expressing rules on the information on the information available on their website. The word "payload" does not appear.

In both cases the laws are directed at commercial activity, but it's the best I can find.

And to be clear, I'm not saying you can legally go over GVWR. I'm saying that a setup that has been scaled and isn't over its GVWR and axle ratings is legal, and not over payload.

[jcl]

Thanks Gypsy. So, no examples of any states enforcing payload, and the example you did provide is for GVWR, not payload. Also, no mention of whether it was for commercial purposes (where GVWR is regulated) or private use (where it usually isn't, but you appeared to have information on states where it was regulated).

The example of your son crashing your truck has been brought up before. Seems that despite all the concerns over payload, it was not a factor there. So, that example reinforces the thought that payload is not the liability factor that some repeatedly suggest.

No need to call my insurance folks, thanks. I know the rules in BC; the question was which US states are applying commercial regulations to private operators. I used to have to worry more about GVWR, but I surrendered my Class 3 with air endorsement (CDL as you call it) as they wanted a medical at time of renewal, and I didn't use it any longer.

It is still relevant to me what the rules are, as I still drive, still have to go over the scales occasionally (when over a certain GVW), and still tow. Just not an Airstream, but the rules aren't specific to Airstreams, as I am sure you know.