2018 Jeep Eco-Diesel VS 2018 Expedition?

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Caddis

Kinda surprised by some of the responses!
2015 Grand Cherokee Overland Eco Diesel air suspension, pulling a 2017 FC 23D.
I live in the mountains of VA, and spend two to three months in Montana, more and bigger mountains, zero problems towing up and down! Pulls like a tank!
Have never felt underpowered period! Will a Hemi as was said, blow my doors off, well yeah, so what!

Dude was asking about how they compared. I related results of my test drive, same truck with a Hemi and Ecodiesel. Best way I know to compare two engines.

I didn't get either one, but that Hemi was awesome.

[dkottum]

David, we have the Ram EcoD without overheating issues and you may be right. But the engine does have good torque at low rpm, maybe folks are lugging along in too high a gear, there's not enough coolant moving through the radiator climbing grades in hot weather. If so it seems like the ECM could be programmed by the mfg to account for this condition. Otherwise, just shift down and get some coolant moving.

[Barretta2]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Can you give me a specific example of a hill where you had to climb at 35-40 MPH?

Andy

Three steep and extended uphill drives stand out:
--Climbing from Denver to Silverthorne, CO
--climbing Vail Pass west to east
--climbing to Park City, UT from the west

All 3 are L O N G, unrelenting Interstate pulls.
And yes, JCL is correct...I don't know enough about RPMs to feel comfy running over 4000 for more than a few miles.
I VERY much would like to stay with Jeep.....feeling confused (it doesn't take much) by the different responses re which 2018 JGC would be better, eco-diesel or 5.7 hemi.
I'm very appreciative of all your comments--you are making me a wiser driver.

[Barretta2]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Dude was asking about how they compared. I related results of my test drive, same truck with a Hemi and Ecodiesel. Best way I know to compare two engines.

I didn't get either one, but that Hemi was awesome.

Countryboy59: this "Dude" is a "Daisy" 😜

[Barretta2]

Originally Posted by jcl

Keep in mind the OP lives in Florida, tows primarily on flat ground, and really likes his current Jeep.

Sounds to me like a nervousness over using elevated revs on occasional hills. I wouldn't worry about that. The vehicle is very capable.

While Florida is indeed my legal residence, this gal also lives 5 months in the Colorado Rockies...AND tows all over the country in between time.
Thanks to all you guys for the input...my husband doesn't travel with me so I really appreciate all of your advice.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Barretta2

Three steep and extended uphill drives stand out:
--Climbing from Denver to Silverthorne, CO
--climbing Vail Pass west to east
--climbing to Park City, UT from the west

All 3 are L O N G, unrelenting Interstate pulls.
And yes, JCL is correct...I don't know enough about RPMs to feel comfy running over 4000 for more than a few miles.
I VERY much would like to stay with Jeep.....feeling confused (it doesn't take much) by the different responses re which 2018 JGC would be better, eco-diesel or 5.7 hemi.
I'm very appreciative of all your comments--you are making me a wiser driver.

Good information.

You are fine using the available revs on longer pulls. It will be louder than cruising on the flats, but the engine is designed for it.

Of the two engine options, the 5.7 has significantly more power, but you have to use the revs to get that power. Also, this engine doesn't have a turbocharger so will lose some power at higher altitudes, but still have more available than the ecodiesel.

The ecodiesel is very capable, and won't experience the same % power loss at higher elevations, but will be slower up the hills than the 5.7. To many that won't matter, but i suspect you may notice it. There isn't a wrong answer to the choice of which engine, but if you feel the 5.7 is struggling I would advise using more revs with your current vehicle, not trading for one with less power.

Good luck

Jeff

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Barretta2

Countryboy59: this "Dude" is a "Daisy" 😜

I know! But I hear women say "dude" to each other all the time!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Barretta2

Three steep and extended uphill drives stand out:
--Climbing from Denver to Silverthorne, CO
--climbing Vail Pass west to east
--climbing to Park City, UT from the west

All 3 are L O N G, unrelenting Interstate pulls.
And yes, JCL is correct...I don't know enough about RPMs to feel comfy running over 4000 for more than a few miles.
I VERY much would like to stay with Jeep.....feeling confused (it doesn't take much) by the different responses re which 2018 JGC would be better, eco-diesel or 5.7 hemi.
I'm very appreciative of all your comments--you are making me a wiser driver.

The JGC sure is nice. I had the Summit which was the highest trim level. It was like traveling first class! I hated to trade it, and it was sold the day after I traded it in. I can understand why you like it. When I towed on hills I would just kick in the air conditioned seats and relax...

[TouringDan]

Like others have indicated, just get comfortable using more rpm's to climb the mountain. Especially if you like your JGJ, no need to trade this one in.

Dan

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

Like others have indicated, just get comfortable using more rpm's to climb the mountain. Especially if you like your JGJ, no need to trade this one in.

Dan

The point I was trying to make above. So long as it's under the engine rpm redline (maximum) it will do it all day long.

Experience teaches how to do it most effectively. It is NOT about maintaining 65-mph upgrade. Let it back off after a good run at the slope, and continue on up. Experiment with gear choice if you want. Read, and re-read operators manual.

Farmers and pilots have to learn how to use the engine. Towing is no different.

[jtwind]

I've a 2015 Ram 1500 with an eco diesel. Wonderful tow vehicle for my 19c. Never an issue with overheating even on long up hill grades out west. What needs to be done is simple. Don't use cruise, that will increase RPM, this is a diesel so that's not what needs to be done. Max torque is around 2000 rpm, usually without cruise the transmission will find the correct gear, if not i just shift up or down to get in near that 2000 rpm mark. Always works wonderfully.

[lovetokite]

Originally Posted by jcl

The 5.7 is rated at 360 hp, and the 3.0 ecodiesel is rated at 240 hp, so it has 1/3 less power, for whatever use it is put to.

However, the Ecodiesel has more torque than the Hemi!!!

http://www.trucktrend.com/truck-revi...-vs-ecodiesel/

towing my 27FB with absolute ease, also in mountaineous terrain

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by slowmover

35-40 isn't "crawling", believe me. It's when one is down to 15-20/mph and is conducting a roadside wildflower survey, which qualifies for that statement, ha!

Part of hitting some grades is a faster approach. Learning how to use transmission. Traffic spacing. Various tactics

Climbing slowly in itself shouldn't be considered a problem where the TV is an otherwise excellent choice for solo duty by size, design (towing is occasional duty; grades even less of an occurrence), so it's just part of the package.

I'll admit to missing passing the VW buses in the Rockies while upslope. It was fun to wave at Mr & Mrs Tiedye Stoner as we continued slowly past them. (They were so "cool" taking a chancy pass around us going up Boulder Canyon, but past Nederland, ha!). Been thirty years now since big block cars "ruled", but it was fun while it lasted. EFI was a game changer. ("Once upon a time, children, it was all about the Big Iron . . . . ").

RVers tend to get bent out of shape at new experiences behind the wheel, thinking X years of solo vehicle commutes counts for something. Were that solo vehicle loaded to the gills EVERY DAY they'd have a wider set of experiences in dealing with traffic, roads, weather. It isn't, thus they don't.

The cars with which we towed forty or fifty years ago slowed on grades, and keeping coolant temps reasonable was a concern. Today's electronically controlled motors can extract more power, and do it over a wider range of gears much more easily. Learning to use what one has IS part of the fun. And it won't feature a bellowing Thermoquad atop a seven-and-a-half liter Chrysler TNT V8. Had to practically shout over that.

With my six speed manual transmission truck (in sig) I expect to drop one or more gears AFTER coming out of OD. From Direct down to Second if need be. And hold there (as I can accelerate while upgrade in Two or Three) for the duration.

I've no desire to burn any extra fuel to accomplish the same task. I don't consider the speed to be a relevant concern. Why would anyone?

As I can accelerate in the right gear choice, I can also make room for others on the far right of the highway by slowing further and/or going around them (getting well ahead). Note this: it's about control, not speed. With the right gear I can alter my speed to accommodate what's happening around me. Only the unwary give up vehicle space around them!

In a semi truck, that "able to accelerate" speed is so low one chooses to avoid it. And strives to maintain what one can (within reason).

Understanding what commercial traffic is doing makes it easier. Avoid getting in front of them AT ALL as the downslope is far harder for them to control.

Temporarily elevated coolant isn't a concern. It's a "natural" occurrence, as it were. Trying to maintain maximum speed may not help that. Duration and distance are separate, the latter is fixed. One works WITH this.

There is usually an "ideal" for steady-state, high engine-demand. 80% is an off-quoted figure for Engine Load. That's a good target for practice.

Getting to the top isn't much of a thing.

Downslope is a whole set of real concerns.

The ones who crow about engine power miss what's important. Reveal their ignorance and/or lack of experience. Speed upslope while the hitch is in tension is worry-free for the most part.

An engine exhaust brake or sophisticated transmission program will neither of them maintain downslope hitch tension. Use of the service brakes is what matters while towing on a downslope.

(And -- of course -- one has already tested the brake controller that it leads the TV; that the lousy stock trailer drum brakes are adjusted properly; etc, etc.)

Maintaining hitch tension downslope is what separates men from boys.

And it's the fools passing you at speeds 25-30/mph faster upslope or downslope who are a threat to all others by wiping out vehicle spacing and in no way respecting speed discrepancies (not to mention that hitch tension problem) who give all RVers a bad name for their ways.
.

Thanks for a great post; sometimes I miss your point in the truncated sentences. Type more, I learn more. [emoji6]

[vselec]

Just picked up my new AI 25' fbt, a 350 mile trip back home. My 15 jeep with the eco diesel pulls it just fine. downshifts on hills but pulls good. Not under powered at all. I have done some modifications to the jeep in the way of a banks monster exhaust and cold air intake but nothing major. Love the jeep and hope it pulls good on longer trips. let you know in May.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by jcl

HP is the rate at which work is done.

If a vehicle is described as struggling up hills, to me that is a power question. It may be that the OP doesn't want to run the engine at sufficient rpm to develop the necessary power.

Torque only matters for starting a load, and even then, available gear ratios make engine torque less important.

Absolutely! This guy gets it.

The literal definition of HP is the rate at which work is done. Pulling up a hill requires work to be done, measured against time.

Torque is a force that doesn't have a time component. Doesn't matter if you make 100,000 ft/lbs if you can only do it once minute. Rather make 300 ft/lbs 5000 times, or revolutions per minute (rpm). Rpm is the time component to HP.

HP = TQ x RPM / 5252

So for those two examples:
100,000 ft/lbs x 1 rpm / 5252 = 19hp
300 ft/lbs x 5000 rpm / 5252 - 285hp

So to everyone focusing on torque...torque get you off the line. HP is what wins races (and gets you up that hill).

To the OP, let her rev. Though if she's heating up, she may not have the cooling capacity to really be towing that kind of load. May want to check out her cooling system to make sure the radiator is free flowing, and pressure cap is holding pressure. More rpm only makes more power (and heat), that won't help the overheating situation.

May I suggest if you enjoy off-roading with towing, a 200-series Land Cruiser.

[brick1]

Get the Expy...
brick

[AirstreamJim]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but am I the only one who knows that FCA hasn't built a Jeep Grand Cherokee with an EcoDiesel engine since the 2016 MY (a few 2017s that sat in a warehouse for a year before finally being released for sale after getting delayed EPA approval don't count), and that FCA have withdrawn the option from the 2018 lineup? With no certain future JGC diesel option on the table?

I have a 2015 JGC EcoDiesel, and except for the engine blowing up (catastrophic engine failure; got a new engine and extended warranty out of it) at 25K miles, I love the truck. But they ain't building them anymore, and nobody outside FCA really knows whether they ever will again.

Don't waste time trying to decide, the diesel Jeep is out of the picture.

Jim

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

...But they ain't building them anymore, and nobody outside FCA really knows whether they ever will ... the diesel Jeep is out of the picture.

New Jeep Wrangler (JL) is scheduled for diesel option in 2019.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by AirstreamJim

Don't waste time trying to decide, the diesel Jeep is out of the picture.

Jim

In this thread, the diesel Jeep was out of the picture back at post #6, as it doesn't have more power than the 5.7, which was the reason for the question.

The OP has a perfectly good Jeep and likes it. No need to buy anything.

[Keyair]

A personal opinion, that is not Grand Cherokee, but similar, and in fact closely related.

We wanted to replace our older Range Rover last year.
We looked at and drove many vehicles in the size and price range we were looking at.
Towing is not on our current plan, as we only have a Airstream Motorhome, but who knows what is in the future, so a solid towing ability and limit was important.

We ended up focused on the W164/W166 Mercedes ML series.

After driving 5 different configurations (4x gas, and 1x Diesel), we sat back and had a good impression of each to decide.
The V6 was smooth, but you had to rev it to get the performance. The V8's were punchy, but guzzled gas. The Diesel was the surprise. I was quiet, smooth, surprisingly fast, and very economical.

We bought a '09 Ml320 Bluetec, with 56k miles.
It is rated at 210hp, and 398ftlb Torque, which is similar to the Ecodiesel.

A year, and 7000 miles later, its quietness, unassuming grunt, and economy are an everyday pleasure. People never guess its a Diesel, even from outside, and the punch it has merging onto the freeway, or up long grades is surprising.
It also does 22/25mpg in our mixed bag of everyday use, beating the Range Rover and my older jeep by 10mpg. On a recent 1000 miles road trip recorded 29.8 mpg average. With its 25 gallon tank, I regularly see a range reading of 600 to 800 miles after filling up.

My point to all this rambling, is that the Diesel's in these vehicles are similar, and they weigh about the same.
The Hemi might well out-perform the diesel on paper or at the dragstrip, but the 1600 to 3000 rpm torque band of the diesel is very accessible in everyday driving, and the economy is a bonus.
I bet the Diesel will outperform the V6 gasser, yet match the V8, and beat both of them in MPG hands down.
Towing reports for these 3.0 Diesels say they match, or do better than the gas options.

OP, Is it worth selling the 5.7 to get a Diesel, probably not.
But if you are in the market for an SUV tow rig of this size, the diesel has a lot going for it.