Visit our Popular Forums

gypsydad · 11-24-2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertF

Thank you for your diplomatic reply, even though my post was probably a bit strident.

Yes, the SAE website wasn't very helpful . . . and I probably relied on the same sources you did.

It's clear that there are two approaches - by the numbers, and then personal judgement.

I do respect GAWR/GVWR (and actual payload is simply GVWR less the vehicle's empty weight). Tongue weight (properly distributed) needs to be factored in. Indeed, payload capacity can be the most significant limiting factor when assessing a car's ability to tow larger trailers. However, most station wagons (including SUVs) and minivans have rather generous payload capacities.

Sedans are more limited; I can tell you that the ride on my old Volvo S60 gets rather poor on rough roads and concrete interstates when the car is loaded close to its GVWR and I am happy to be towing with the newer V70 wagon. However, the smaller and stiffer S60 was actually more stable and handled better while towing!

GCVWR is very much performance-based, and not about safety. I am comfortable being categorical about that because a number of years ago (before any discussion about J2807) I came across an article describing how trucks were tested. I came to the conclusion that GCVWR was generally based on pulling a 20%+ grade in first gear without overheating the engine, transmission, or the differential. (As an aside, it is interesting to observe how many trucks now have finned aluminum differential covers now.)

Yes, J2807 is no doubt more demanding in that respect, with the long, hot highway speed tow. However, 30 seconds to 60 mph is not a high standard. The V70 gets the Overlander to 60 in about 22 seconds.

You questioned reliability. I've certainly had that concern, but I've concluded that if the engine can move it, the rest of the driveline should be fine if the powertrain engineers have done their jobs. To put it another way, if the transmission/driveshaft/differential/axle shafts can't handle the maximum torque output of the engine on a sustained basis, that's a design failure, pure and simple. The V70's non-turbo engine produces about 235 lbs ft, while the 6 speed Aisin transmission is rated for 325. I don't know what the new ZF 8 speed that the XC90 will use is rated for.

Please understand that I am referring to steady loads, not shock loads or abuse. I am also assuming proper cooling and avoidance of frequent shifting (for automatic transmissions).

Your certainly entitled to your own "opinion", but please, "don't", by any stretch of the imagination, consider yourself as giving "safe advise" by "assuming" anything when it comes to safety! Just because you can "move" a trailer under certain conditions, does not imply that it's safe to tow...several "experts" on this site have done the math more than a few times for proper weight/balance/TV/hitch, etc...again, be safe; not stupid!

Tomzstream · 11-25-2014, 06:01 AM

Gypsy,

Please educate yourself before contributing to this thread. Your opinions are valid in your own household (Every man is an expert in his own home), but to come on this thread making generalization about Volvo's is silly given this thread is dedicated to discussing an all new state of the art platform and an all new state of the art drivetrain.

I actually find the analysis done to date to be very informative and useful.

Suggest you check out the following resources:

https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...t-architecture

2015 Volvo XC90 Teased Again and SPA Chassis Detailed (The Torque Report)

And lastly, a primer on the new Boron Steel Safety cage... I can't imagine a safer capsule to be riding in while towing 2-3 tons behind you.
New XC90 burnishes Volvo's safety credentials - SAE International

Picture

Tomzstream · 11-25-2014, 09:00 AM

Been reading up on the new rear suspension, and the transverse leaf spring independent suspension has lots of advantages. It has significantly less weight than a similarly equipped coil spring suspension. Less sprung weight means less load on the wheels themselves and probably contributes to the excellent load capacity (which I would think would also accommodate reasonable tongue weights as well.)

Additionally it lowers the center of gravity as it is positioned lower. It also acts as an anti roll bar which also reduces rollover risk. It is also what allows space for the electric motor. Looks like a winner to me.

andreasduess · 11-25-2014, 07:15 PM

The Volvo looks like a fantastic vehicle. I am especially impressed by the high payload and the diesel model. It would be great if they'd make that available in North America.

Tomzstream · 12-04-2014, 09:55 AM

More details on the T8 drive configuration...

It utilizes an Integrated starter/generator between the front wheel drive motor and transmission, that enables some boost in drive power as well as providing regenerative power for charging the batteries (engine braking mostly). It also derived regenerative power to the batteries from the rear drive electric motor. So while coasting downhill with your trailer, you can recoup much of the potential energy lost from driving uphill.

The ISG is 46HP itself but is not included in the combined 400HP derived from the gas engine and the rear electric motor.

lifeisfab · 10-02-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Do not be surprised if Volvo does not allow towing with this edition. It is pretty common practice with EVs. Many of the bits and pieces may be changed from the "regular" version...to the lighter side. Add ultra low rolling resistance tires, etc. and they get knocked out of the towing game for the achievement of more range and fuel economy. That's the target market.

Usually hybrid cars can tow as much as their gas engine counterpart. Volvo has a towing pkg for this particular hybrid vehicle. the towing capacity is 5000lbs. Hybrid are actually great for towing, because of the instant on demand work they provide. An hybrid Cayenne can tow a little over 7700lbs. Usually the engine isn't the biggest factor in dictating how much you can tow, the frame, brakes, weight, etc... are all crucial factors. You don't need a big engine to tow a lot of weight.

lifeisfab · 10-02-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Forgive me for insulting....just don't think of a Volvo as a TV...it's a family wagon in my eyes...and I have owned a few Volvos, MBZ's also, including the ML350 pulling a 5K lb trailer; to me, the 1/2 ton PU's make the most sense...but, pull on with your Volvo...be safe!

I think towing trailers/campers with big pick-up trucks is typically an American thing, we like big engines and big cars, but keep in mind that the rest of the world drive mostly 4 cylinders engines and their campers / trailers weight the same as ours. I think there is a tendency to think that the engine power si the primary factor in towing. It is not.

gypsydad · 10-03-2017, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeisfab

I think towing trailers/campers with big pick-up trucks is typically an American thing, we like big engines and big cars, but keep in mind that the rest of the world drive mostly 4 cylinders engines and their campers / trailers weight the same as ours. I think there is a tendency to think that the engine power si the primary factor in towing. It is not.

Its not the engine power, nor just "towing" that is important...you need to think about safety....the shorter wheelbase SUV or cars, matched with longer, heavier, AS trailers maybe fine on level, straight roadways. It's when you start to consider control while driving in cross winds, or driving in heavy traffic with big trucks passing, or pulling your AS at highway speeds up/ down hills or mountains, quick stopping needs, and driving in inclement weather, where the safety of a heavier, longer, properly powered TV is most important.

(if not for you, think about others on the road.)

A VW bug can pull an AS on straight and level...add in the other factors and really think about the job that vehicle was designed for...

I know there are all those folks who push the limit..."because they can"...their are many on this forum who also do not believe a WDH is necessary with certain trucks...for those folks, hope your luck holds out. But for many of us, its not a matter of if it can be done...its more a matter of safety.

But hey, that's just my thinking...

SilverHouseDreams · 10-03-2017, 10:04 AM

Do we really need to argue all of the misconceptions of what makes a "proper" tow vehicle on every single thread? Wheel base? Distance of hitch behind rear axle? How much gas it can drink in a mile? Horespower? Body on frame? What other meaningless justifications can we bring in that aren't relevant to the topic at hand?

The wheel base is, honestly, one of the stupidest ones to try to raise. The wheel base on a big rig might have a 156" wheel base and yet pulls a 53' trailer.

Horespower? A big rig may have as "little as" 200hp and yet it manage as GVWR of 66,000lbs.

Perhaps we are neglecting to include color into this discussion, because obviously yellow is the worst color for a tow vehicle.

Why must the "experts" weigh in on every thread, next you can say..."well, whatever you pick is fine, but you must only use a ProPride hitch"...

gypsydad · 10-04-2017, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

Do we really need to argue all of the misconceptions of what makes a "proper" tow vehicle on every single thread? Wheel base? Distance of hitch behind rear axle? How much gas it can drink in a mile? Horespower? Body on frame? What other meaningless justifications can we bring in that aren't relevant to the topic at hand?

The wheel base is, honestly, one of the stupidest ones to try to raise. The wheel base on a big rig might have a 156" wheel base and yet pulls a 53' trailer.

Horespower? A big rig may have as "little as" 200hp and yet it manage as GVWR of 66,000lbs.

Perhaps we are neglecting to include color into this discussion, because obviously yellow is the worst color for a tow vehicle.

Why must the "experts" weigh in on every thread, next you can say..."well, whatever you pick is fine, but you must only use a ProPride hitch"...

Well, if your only towing a 22' Sport, I guess your right; nothing matters...except color...color does matter!

SilverHouseDreams · 10-04-2017, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Well, if your only towing a 22' Sport, I guess your right; nothing matters...except color...color does matter!

What other pointless BS can you use to try to determine someone else is wrong? The color of the bath towels they use within the Airstream? Seriously, I can't tell if you are trying to be funny...but I can say that you don't seem to be funny at all.

gypsydad · 10-05-2017, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

What other pointless BS can you use to try to determine someone else is wrong? The color of the bath towels they use within the Airstream? Seriously, I can't tell if you are trying to be funny...but I can say that you don't seem to be funny at all.

"Pointless BS??" Actually, after re-reading this thread which has been going for almost 3 years now, who am I to tell you Volvo lovers anything about Safety...your going to keep doing what you want anyway, right? Sorry to offend; be safe.