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Old 07-19-2020, 06:03 PM   #41
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2011 25' FB Flying Cloud
Hutchinson , Kansas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The TDI would struggle on the the steep western grades. I show it with just 240 HP and you'd need about 250 to maintain 55 on the Grapevine with a 25'. I show it to do marginally fine with a 23' trailer, though it could use a bit more cooling. Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, etc. would be even worse where you'd be expected to be keeping 60-65 mph. You really want north of 310 hp for a 25' trailer out west. The Hitch would also need shoring up,
Itís not the horse power you need, itís the torque. And the VW can maintain that torque in high altitude because itís turbocharged. My 2013 TDI pulled my 25í FB effortlessly through several Rocky Mountain passes and I had to work hard to keep it under 65 mph both high altitude and low elevation. We spent a month out west where we put on 5,000 in all sorts of terrain. And it out climbs many trucks. I also have a 2017 GMC Sierra pick up with a 6.2 liter v8 and 12,000 tow rating and that darn VW with the turbo can out climb that GMC. I also got 15 mpg on the 5,000 mile trip with the tdi. My GMC? Iím lucky to get 12 mpg.
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Old 07-19-2020, 06:08 PM   #42
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2009 23' Flying Cloud
Phoenix , Arizona
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Gas VW is nice for towing 23'

We enjoy towing our Flying Cloud 23D with a V6 Touareg sport. Heat hasn't been a problem for us. Can-Am reinforcements were added to it's 770 pound tongue weight, 7710 pound factory tow package. We use an Andersen hitch that balances the combo nicely. I believe our set-up is ideal for use with 16, 22, 19, 20 or 23 foot trailers. We don't carry water or waste for long distances. Our gas mileage seems to match that of a 1/2 ton pick-up when towing and exceed that of a 1/2 ton truck when not towing. (F150 weight is 4,069 to 5,684 lbs; Touareg weight is 4696 to 4919 Lbs). The VW has great brakes, an over-designed Porsche frame and 8-speed transmission. 10K' passes are not a problem at 55 MPH. Downsides: The Touareg doesn't have factory tow mirrors or a built-in brake controller. With the VW's width, weight and wheelbase I wouldn't tow a wider, heavier 25' trailer. Our "TV to 23' trailer" weight ratio is just over 1:1. We love the Touareg.
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Old 07-21-2020, 04:12 PM   #43
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2020 27' Globetrotter
2017 30' International
Sun City , Arizona
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So, just so I understand, a Touareg TDi with a maximum tow capacity of 7600lbs, has a GVWR of 6305lbs and a curb weight of 4919lbs. Ad the maximum tongue weight of 772lbs (since we all know Airstreams are alway on spec with tongue weight estimates) to the 4919 and you arrive at 5691lbs.

That leaves excess capacity right around 600lbs to which we ad an adult (or two +/- 300lbs) a kid (or two +/- 180lbs), family pet (+/- 50lbs). Using these estimates, we're down to about 84lbs excess capacity for food, toys, water, soda, adult beverages, etc.

I'm sure it tows great, and folks that own them (and tow with them) love their Touaregs, heck I've always liked them, too, but those margins are way to close for my comfort and self-determined safety margins.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:55 AM   #44
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2005 25' Safari
1964 26' Overlander
Saskatoon , Saskatchewan
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Originally Posted by rickcaz View Post
We enjoy towing our Flying Cloud 23D with a V6 Touareg sport. Heat hasn't been a problem for us. Can-Am reinforcements were added to it's 770 pound tongue weight, 7710 pound factory tow package. We use an Andersen hitch that balances the combo nicely. I believe our set-up is ideal for use with 16, 22, 19, 20 or 23 foot trailers. We don't carry water or waste for long distances. Our gas mileage seems to match that of a 1/2 ton pick-up when towing and exceed that of a 1/2 ton truck when not towing. (F150 weight is 4,069 to 5,684 lbs; Touareg weight is 4696 to 4919 Lbs). The VW has great brakes, an over-designed Porsche frame and 8-speed transmission. 10K' passes are not a problem at 55 MPH. Downsides: The Touareg doesn't have factory tow mirrors or a built-in brake controller. With the VW's width, weight and wheelbase I wouldn't tow a wider, heavier 25' trailer. Our "TV to 23' trailer" weight ratio is just over 1:1. We love the Touareg.
Regards to the brake controller - pretty slick the new Echo WiFi Brake controller from Curt, don't need to hardwire into the vehicle anymore and can transfer to other vehicles if needed. We picked one up just after we got our 13 Tdi and were going to add trailer brake module to it- they sold me this new controller instead and was just awesome on our Saskatchewan - California trip this past Feb.
Agree on the tranny as well, love shifting manually when climbing or descending. Handles beautifully.
Cheers!
Paul
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:47 AM   #45
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2009 23' Flying Cloud
Phoenix , Arizona
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Hi Escape Plan,
I wish everyone had your concerns for towing safely.



Usually we travel almost dry (4707 pounds before our minimal "stuff" and propane) without kids or dogs. We have more margin than you calculated but still plan our loads carefully. VW rates the sport for 7710 pounds rather than 7600, but that's not where we approach limits. Our upgraded Can-Am hitch adds margin above the original 770 pound tongue weight rating. Airstream's rating of 730 pounds tongue weight for a 23D is optimistic.



We fill up (or dump) water tanks at or near dry camp destinations. We don't carry our 65 pound AC-capable generator on long trips when we need more supplies from home. The Touareg is a capable and comfortable TV for our 23D that parks nicely at the grocery store. It is fun to drive.



If we decide to carry our generator and water on longer trips, add more people and invite our 85 pound Dogo Argentino we will exceed capabilities of our Touareg (and many 1/2 ton 4x4 truck configurations), so we will purchase a 3/4 ton pickup and those factory mirrors will be oh so convenient compared to our temporary mount Dometics
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #46
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2009 23' FB Flying Cloud
St. Louis , Missouri
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Touareg TDI

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Originally Posted by mbsprouse View Post
We are still looking for our AS, but we now have a Touareg TDI to tow. We are focused on finding a 16,19 or 20 ft trailer. It seems from what i have read on thisbthread, TDI will have no problems towing any of those lengths. I would just like to hear opinions about others experiences with that set up. Anyone have trouble with the longer trailers? Obviously the 16 ft AS would be no problem for the TDI. I have no interest in going with a bigger vehicle since the TDI is my daily driver as well. Thanks for any thoughts.
We pulled the 23 ft Flying Cloud with the Touareg TDI, with weight equalizing hitch for 8 years. The set up worked great, even thru the Rocky Mountains.
Hope that helps!!
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:11 PM   #47
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Slidell , Louisiana
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The 240 hp TDI is under powered and less than ideal for a 23 ft trailer. So many other configurations or other similar vehicles with a tad more power would make a better choice of one were to want to pull a 23. Fortunately the original poster was asking about trailers 20 and under, where the TDI is a great choice.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:32 AM   #48
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Orangeville , Ontario
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So the concensus is, the Touareg TDI is a good tow vehicle for 25' or shorter AS. Most said yes to this, 1 or 2 no, or maybe, and 1 many times (many many) no..... so I think I'll follow the herd on this one, since these are real people that actually have the towing experience. Thank you all, I'm not the OP, but was looking for this same answer. Cheers, Scott
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Old 07-29-2020, 05:48 PM   #49
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I didn't see many recommending it for a late model 25' Airstream. Just saying, there is a difference between saying it works fine and recommending it.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:01 PM   #50
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I didn't see many recommending it for a late model 25' Airstream. Just saying, there is a difference between saying it works fine and recommending it.
Hi Brian, does your model show any difference between the TDI and the gas engine for the T-reg. It seems that the TDI torque produced is being over looked. Speaking from my own experience, and if you ran a New Beetle TDI in your model, what would it say? I know that my power output was doubled so that will mess with the model.

Our TDI would not slow down, it would accelerate without hesitation on any grade dragging our little 2,200 lbs Camplite around.

Does your model downrate diesels because of their lower HP? Just curious about how it works.
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Old 07-29-2020, 06:29 PM   #51
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Torque at any given velocity and engine rpm provides an opportunity to accelerate and the greater the torque, the greater is the potential for rapid acceleration but it only can be achieved if power is sufficient at that specific rpm to propel the vehicle forward. Power overcomes drag, wind resistance and the gravity of hills at speed. In the end, horsepower is king. This is why semis have lots of torque and not so much horsepower, they don't much care how fast they climb the hills since everyone expects them to be slow, as long as they make it to the top.

So the lower torque gas engines will climb the hills at higher speeds and maintain those speeds and accelerate at speed better than the TDI though at 30-40 mph the TDI will accelerate better, but who cares? The t-reg TDI would be great if it just had 20-30 more hp. I think even the VW engineers knew this, probably why they tweaked the emission programming, oops did I say that?
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