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Old 07-14-2018, 11:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Olscot View Post
And then some of us just happen to like big heavy diesel trucks. Much like those that prefer Harleys. If you have to ask there is no way to explain it that you would understand. Get what makes you happy and enjoy the experience.
Great post.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:36 AM   #22
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follow the brick.........
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:42 AM   #23
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wowwwwwwww.......small trucks and motors, towing large campers
maybe Im missing something... hmmmmm

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Old 07-14-2018, 11:53 AM   #24
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wowwwwwwww.......small trucks and motors, towing large campers
maybe Im missing something... hmmmmm

You probably are.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:59 AM   #25
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Buy BIG, Tow SMALL

Buy the largest Airstream you can afford and tow it with whatever is in your garage. A potential disaster coming...

Airstream Dealers tow 30 foot Airstreams with some small vehicle on the lot. That does not make it safe or reasonable to believe your every day vehicle is appropriate in comparison.

I would believe that if a F350 Pickup would fit in the garage, used as a work truck, and money were not an issue, many would go to the 3/4 ton tow vehicle.

I would never tow a 28 foot Airstream with our 5.7L Land Cruiser or 5.7L Tundra. Sure it will tow. The 'experts' say... "sure, go ahead, I do it". The OP asked for opinions. Not debates over who is right or wrong.

Just be in front of me descending a mountain pass in Colorado. The smell of hot brakes is always a bad sign for those smelling it following anyone. An inexperienced mountain driver is just another vehicle to watch... from a distance.

If you tow in flat country... works for me. That is why a poster asked where you travel, as it is important. Much of the USA you can have an undersized tow vehicle with few consequences. Out in the Rockies... you need to be smarter than that.

I towed our 25 foot Airstream with a 5.7L Tundra 4x4 in the Rockies. It was borderline down grades. You had better be a very good driver in any event. I opted to go F350 3/4 ton Diesel. I never regretted it.

I said 'border line'. Not impossible. With upgrades to the suspension and weight reduction of load... may never have a serious issue. But...

If a RV Dealer would have the liability of matching a trailer to the 'tow vehicle' intended... the dealership would go broke.

Fact Information is Opinion when towing. Even the manufacturers are quiet about what is appropriate to tow whatever.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:05 PM   #26
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Make you own choices. Make your own purchases. Do not lie or present as fact "information" that is your own conjecture, misinformation or prejudice. And do *NOT* tell me where to be or not to be when I'm safely, legally towing MY Airstream with MY truck on public roads.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:55 PM   #27
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Weight definitions

Title 49 - Transportation. Subtitle B - Other Regulations Relating To Transportation (Continued). CHAPTER V - NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFICS AFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. PART 571 - FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. Subpart A - General.
§ 571.3 Definitions.

"Curb weight means the weight of a motor vehicle with standard equipment; maximum capacity of engine fuel, oil, and coolant; and, if so equipped, air conditioning and additional weight optional engine.
Gross axle weight rating or GAWR means the value specified by the vehicle manufacturer as the load-carrying capacity of a single axle system, as measured at the tire-ground interfaces.
Gross combination weight rating or GCWR means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination vehicle.
Gross vehicle weight rating or GVWR means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle."

73/gus
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Old 07-14-2018, 01:50 PM   #28
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An interesting article to settle all of the finger pointing:

rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2015/13/tow-vehicle-rating-facts-myths/
Or:
https://rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2012/0...s-dont-add-up/

I Googled- Travel Trailer Towing Standards. This is a partial discussion about SAE J2807 Truck Towing Standards... if any.

Now you are meeting the Gearheads meeting the Air...Heads. Read and Weep, as they say. Tow vehicles and length of trailer are always hotly discussed. Some handle it better than others. Open a cold beer and read... there is enough to keep one busy.

...another: https://rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2012/0...s-dont-add-up/

You wanted the facts, even the professionals wonder what they may be.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #29
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At the bottom of this same Thread: Caution- Why Truck Tow Ratings Don't Add Up

is also a good read. If you are confused... no wonder why.
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:44 PM   #30
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I'm not trading my F250 for Yugo

Gawd I love that sticker that reads 3,111 pounds.

And the crew cab is CAVERNOUS in the back with the seats folded up.

I just love the dang thing.

I'm standin' with BRICK all the way.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:46 PM   #31
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OK let's play numbers games. In 2004 you wanted to buy the mostest bestest tow vehicle possible for your middle sized (25'-27') Airstream so Ray won't prohibit you from driving in Colorado when he's on the road. You went out and bought an F250 crew cab 4x4 with the Powerstroke. That's the be-all and end-all right? You don't have a 5th wheel so you don't need the dually. None of the "gotta-getta-heavy-duty" crowd is going to tell you that you're a danger to yourself and others now.

My '17 F150 is more capable in EVERY MEASUREMENT than that F250. Bigger brakes, nearly 2x the payload (that's right, my '17 F150 Lariat 4x4 supercrew has nearly double the MAX theoretical payload of that older Superduty you'd have been ready to say a few minutes ago is a definitively superior tow vehicle because it's a 3/4 ton.) You might make an argument about the absolute measurement of torque but the broader RPM band and the 10-speed transmission more than compensate for that last 40 ft-lb, never mind the extra 100 horsepower it delivers.

Source for these numbers? The Ford towing guide for the referenced Superduty, the payload placard on mine for my payload.

Yes a brand new F250 has a bit more payload than my F150 and a lot more torque. It also costs more and trucks with comparable cabs are much longer overall and that solid axle has poorer handling. I've written many times that there are tradeoffs both directions and not everyone has the same wants, needs and constraints on their vehicle selection.

I'm not suggesting that it's bad for other people to tow with HD pickups. Some of you are suggesting that I shouldn't be able to tow my Airstream with my F150 in the West when you're on the roads and my response to that bit of nonsense is frankly much more polite than is deserved.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:41 PM   #32
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David, this is a learning process for everyone. I never get excited over someone responding to me directly, or in your case, sometimes indirectly. Your last post was well received.

I have a 2016 F350 King Ranch, 6 foot bed, 4x4 Diesel... so you can possibly adjust your numbers one way or another. I tow a 2014 25 foot International.

The Ford replaced my 2014 Tundra 4x4 Crew Max short bed. Two great comparisons to work up for everyone to see.

rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

The manufacturer's numbers have the driver weighing 150# in their statistics. I must be overweight at 182# and 6 feet tall... and my former tow vehicle. My wife is light, so it does average out.

I went to the RVSEF website and getting my tutorial. This is recommended for those interested to listen to this explanation. He is calm and non defensive in the delivery. It is a numbers game. He describes, in general, GCWR, GVWR and GAWR.

These terms others toss around like we understand, and then toss in different kinds of hitches to even add more confusion.

The video claims more than 50% of those towing are exceeding at least one of the three statistics. They are the experts up to this point in time.

When using numbers as examples, it is always easier to explain where the numbers come into play.

I would suggest that David take on some examples, like the OP and run HIS numbers on the 30 foot and see where he stands.

That would be entertaining for everyone and it is just numbers and not getting anyone's pulse rate exceeding GCWR ratings. (That is a pun, some humor.) We will all learn something and the OP will have his answer, or at least end the debate.

I will keep my F350 as a superior tow vehicle fo my 25 foot International and longer. The Tundra was at its limit, if not exceeded. I could probably toss a couple of ATV's into the back bed and still be under weight.
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:14 PM   #33
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David, this is a learning process for everyone. I never get excited over someone responding to me directly, or in your case, sometimes indirectly. Your last post was well received.

I have a 2016 F350 King Ranch, 6 foot bed, 4x4 Diesel... so you can possibly adjust your numbers one way or another. I tow a 2014 25 foot International.

The Ford replaced my 2014 Tundra 4x4 Crew Max short bed. Two great comparisons to work up for everyone to see.

rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

I went to the RVSEF website and getting my tutorial. This is recommended for those interested to listen to this explanation. He is calm and non defensive in the delivery. It is a numbers game. He describes, in general, GCWR, GVWR and GAWR.

These terms others toss around like we understand, and then toss in different kinds of hitches to even add more confusion.

The video claims more than 50% of those towing are exceeding at least one of the three statistics. They are the experts up to this point in time.

When using numbers as examples, it is always easier to explain where the numbers come into play.

I would suggest that David take on some examples, like the OP and run HIS numbers on the 30 foot and see where he stands.

That would be entertaining for everyone and it is just numbers and not getting anyone's pulse rate exceeding GCWR ratings. (That is a pun, some humor.) We will all learn something and the OP will have his answer, or at least end the debate.

I will keep my F350 as a superior tow vehicle fo my 25 foot International and longer. The Tundra was at its limit, if not exceeded.
+1
In my case, with my previous TV, a 2016 Expedition Ecoboost, I knew I was exceeding its rated payload.
I somewhat expected this when we purchased our new 28 Serenity. Plenty of engine capacity, but too much weight, and the 22inch low profile tires did not help. So after a few weekend tows, my faithful Expedition turned into an F250 Diesel.
To say the F250 tows better is an understatement. It makes towing so easy, I have to remind myself I am hitched up. Merging onto the interstate is now kinda fun. It would be hard now to go back to a 1/2 ton or SUV after towing with a 3/4 diesel
I could have kept towing with my Expy- wife doesn’t really need to bring her purse...
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:19 PM   #34
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I currently have a 2013 Ford Expedition with a payload sticker showing 1449 pounds. I am 100 pounds under this. I have to leave some stuff at home. All other weight numbers are OK. In Minnesota and trips to Texas the 5.4L V8 has been satisfactory - especially since I tow at 55 - 60 MPH.

My Blue Ox SwayPro hitch at 8 links from the free end brings my front end to within 1/2" of where it was without the 25' Airstream attached (900 lb tongue weight measured).

Rear End sag has been my nemesis with it still resting 1.5" lower after engaging the WD hitch. My car only has the struts, not the Air Ride adjustable suspension. Thinking about changing out the OEM springs to heavy duty "cargo springs". A shop here does that but says the ride will be closer to a F-150/250 instead of the current ride.

So I went looking at the 2018 Expeditions on the local dealer's lot today and a XLT had a payload sticker of 1601 pounds and a Limited had 1538 pounds.

I'd like to still park any new vehicle in our small garage (226" length available). So I am searching for a vehicle that is less than that length but one with at least 2,000 pounds of payload.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:09 PM   #35
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I currently have a 2013 Ford Expedition with a payload sticker showing 1449 pounds. I am 100 pounds under this. I have to leave some stuff at home. All other weight numbers are OK. In Minnesota and trips to Texas the 5.4L V8 has been satisfactory - especially since I tow at 55 - 60 MPH.

My Blue Ox SwayPro hitch at 8 links from the free end brings my front end to within 1/2" of where it was without the 25' Airstream attached (900 lb tongue weight measured).

Rear End sag has been my nemesis with it still resting 1.5" lower after engaging the WD hitch. My car only has the struts, not the Air Ride adjustable suspension. Thinking about changing out the OEM springs to heavy duty "cargo springs". A shop here does that but says the ride will be closer to a F-150/250 instead of the current ride.

So I went looking at the 2018 Expeditions on the local dealer's lot today and a XLT had a payload sticker of 1601 pounds and a Limited had 1538 pounds.

I'd like to still park any new vehicle in our small garage (226" length available). So I am searching for a vehicle that is less than that length but one with at least 2,000 pounds of payload.
Have you been across a scale with and without the weight distribution? If the rear is 1.5" low, the front should be coming down around 1.5" too (in actuality, another link on the BOSP would probably give you less rear sag and drop the front more.) IMHO the fender-movement measurement is a good first guess for weight distribution setup but the scales are the gold standard. For my 26U, with the F150 and more like 950 lb tongue, I'm running with the 10th link in the notch with 1000-lb bars (Blue Ox's recommendation.) It takes jacking the tongue up to set the chains, but doesn't require undue force (it's still easy to do with their crappy "wrench.") The 10th link brings my steer axle back to within 20lb of its weight without the trailer, which is probably actually within the margin of error for the CAT scale.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:32 AM   #36
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The payload on our 2015 Expedition EL is 1,643 lbs. and on the 2018 Expedition Max is around 1,750. For some of us that don't want a truck as an everyday drive vehicle the Expedition serves us well.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:08 AM   #37
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1,600 to 1,700 pounds of payload is plenty for my needs.

I have the new Expedition at the top of my list as I shop around for a new tow.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:16 AM   #38
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The new '2018 Expeditions went aluminum body like their trucks. Even if nothing else changes, the weight savings alone should add 200-300 lbs. to the capacity. Not a lot, but significant.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:38 PM   #39
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While you're crunching numbers, don't overlook the fact that at 7000 feet, 85°F, the density altitude is over 11,000 feet. Meaning you and your engine are operating at 11,000 Plus feet compared to a standard day, much cooler around 40°. Most pilots better alive know about density altitude, the ones that don't often end up in the bushes.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:17 AM   #40
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Welcome to the forum..always get a kick putt of the crowd that thinks a 19ft Bambi needs a 350 diesel to pull it..
A 350 would work at a pinch but a 450 would be better
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