2012 Grand Cherokee / 2013 25' IS

[jevering]

I currently have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit edition with a V8 hemi. I was considering upgrading my 19' AS to a 2013 25' International Signature... or possibly a 23'. My Jeep is rated at 7500 lbs and the AS spec for the 25' says 7300 lbs. Seem close Does anyone tow a 25' with a Grand Cherokee? Would I need a different tow vehicle to move the that size trailer? My other option is the 23' IS. Does anyone know if the 25' is much more difficult to maneuver than the 23?

Thanks!

[andreasduess]

Engine power is rarely an issue these days.

The numbers I would check are the available payload of your Jeep and how does that correlate to the hitch weight of the trailer.

[kdinnar]

We have a 2012 Overland with the Hemi 5.7L engine. For the 4x4 Jeep, the maximum trailer weight is 7200 lbs., with a maximum trailer tongue weight of 720 lbs. We really liked the 25' layout, but we were limited to a Flying Cloud 23'FB because of the tongue weight which is only 467 lbs. The 23' s have a tongue weight of about 835 lbs. which exceeds the Jeep capacity. Before we purchased our AS, I asked the dealer about it (Colonial Airstream) and they too agreed that we shouldn't exceed the recommendations and stay with the 23' for safety. Also consider that the tongue weights are for the trailer without all your camping supplies. The TV tongue weight capacity also decreases as you add more cargo to your car. We may go to a bigger AS someday, but we will get a TV with greater towing specs first.

[jevering]

Thanks for the detailed responses! I guess I better stick with the 23' for now. Much appreciated!

[andreasduess]

Proper weight distribution can help solve the tongue weight issue without overloading the vehicle.

[ROBERT CROSS]

The limiting factor...TV axle weight ratings, (GAWR), and tire load rating.

Proper weight distribution set-up can move the weight around, but moving it to overloaded axles & tires accomplishes little.

jevering,

"My Jeep is rated at 7500 lbs and the AS spec for the 25' says 7300 lbs."

You've hit the rivet on the head.
Even if the factory weight is dead-on, (optimistic at best), 200lbs of your "stuff" just isn't going to pass muster.

Bob

[dkottum]

jevering,

"My Jeep is rated 7500 lbs and the AS spec for the 25' says 7300 lbs."

That 7300 lb spec is the maximum loaded weight of the Airstream. The unloaded weight of the Airstream 25' before your "stuff" is under 6000 lbs.

We use the same engine/trans in a 2012 Ram reg cab pickup and it handles the 25' Airstream with ease. We also use a ProPride/Hensley style hitch which is the best towing improvement you can make for stability.

You would not notice a difference in maneuverability between 23' or 25' Airstream, mostly because it is the tow vehicle wheelbase that is the greatest factor.

The only questions I would have about your GC would be the strength of the factory hitch receiver when using a fully capable weight distribution hitch and whether the factory Jeep tires are adequate (1200-1400# w.d. bars with a 25' Airstream). Andrew Thomson at Can-Am Airstream could answer that for you because of his experience with setting up these kinds of vehicles; he may be the only one who can.

I would certainly consider a stronger tow vehicle if that's what's needed for the 25' before I would take the baby step to a 23' Airstream. There are big differences in comfort and capacity between these two models.

doug

[jevering]

Once again, Thanks for all the additional responses. I am going up to the dealer today and looking again at the 23 vs 25. If I fall in love with the 25 I will just drive over to the Ford dealer and pick up a different tow vehicle. I really appreciate the input. Sounds like a bad idea to try to tow a 25 with a Jeep!

[dkottum]

It's a Jeep in name only, actually a Chrysler Hemi on a Mercedes-designed suspension. A strong and stable combination, but there may be a trailer tongue weight problem needing fixing. Unlikely the Ford dealer has anything that sure-footed in emergency maneuvers. With a Ford I would still like a Hensley/ProPride hitch for towing comfort.

doug

[jevering]

Originally Posted by dkottum

It's a Jeep in name only, actually a Chrysler Hemi on a Mercedes-designed suspension. A strong and stable combination, but there may be a trailer tongue weight problem needing fixing. Unlikely the Ford dealer has anything that sure-footed in emergency maneuvers. With a Ford I would still like a Hensley/ProPride hitch for towing comfort.

doug

Awesome, thanks. I'll look into the ProPride hitch as well.

[johnhh]

I just bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V6 8-speed tranny with factory tow package.

I had Andy Thompson reinforce the factory hitch. It was a simple weldment and it did noticably strengthen the hitch. I can take a picture of it if somebody wants to do it themselves.

The Jeep brouchure I have states a hitch weight of 1,200 pounds when using weight distribution. But you cannot find that statement in the owners manual.

I just used the Jeep GC for a two week camping trip from Chicago to Jasper and Revelstoke Canada. Towing a 5,400 pound fully loaded, 1978 25 ft. Tradewind with disc brakes. The Jeep did a fine job on the TransCanada highway, a little slow going up secondary road steep grades but no problem.

12 mpg towing the Tradewind, 21 mpg around town with no trailer, 24 mpg on the highway with no trailer.

The Jeep is a good compromise for a good mileage daily driver and (unfortunately)infrequent trailer towing.

[Jim Flower]

Originally Posted by johnhh

I just bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V6 8-speed tranny with factory tow package.

I had Andy Thompson reinforce the factory hitch. It was a simple weldment and it did noticably strengthen the hitch. I can take a picture of it if somebody wants to do it themselves.

The Jeep brouchure I have states a hitch weight of 1,200 pounds when using weight distribution. But you cannot find that statement in the owners manual.

I just used the Jeep GC for a two week camping trip from Chicago to Jasper and Revelstoke Canada. Towing a 5,400 pound fully loaded, 1978 25 ft. Tradewind with disc brakes. The Jeep did a fine job on the TransCanada highway, a little slow going up secondary road steep grades but no problem.

12 mpg towing the Tradewind, 21 mpg around town with no trailer, 24 mpg on the highway with no trailer.

The Jeep is a good compromise for a good mileage daily driver and (unfortunately)infrequent trailer towing.

OK, no throwing stuff at me. Jasper in July. 7796 K round trip. 14.7 MPG. Diesel. Not a single issue, this time.

[Denis4x4]

This is a 2013 GC Overland Summit with the hemi/tow package. Tongue weight is 1050 with a Propride hitch. Total weight is 12,180 with 38 gallons of water. No issues towing this combo. When we bought the GC, we went through the 25' Safari FB and removed hundreds of pounds of crap. Net weight when we were done was 6300# without water, with propane. I talked to Andy at CanAm and came to the conclusion that reinforcing the receiver could cause other costly problems if the car was rear-ended. I have a four post lift in my shop and took measurements before and after my first trip. Couldn't find any changes in measurements or angles.

The GC has more HP and torque than the 2012 Silverado 2500 crew cab 4x4!

[Garfield]

I know nothing about towing with a GC so can't comment on that, but feel the need to correct some misinformation about weights. I often see comments about payload capacity and tongue weights being the limiting factor when towing. In fact, payload/tongue weights only become the determining factor when towing WITHOUT a weight distribution hitch (WDH). Most everyone reading these forums tows with a WDH (or should be), so lets start with that assumption.

The payload capacity is typically the manufacturer's recommended weight that you can simply toss in a trunk and not exceed a vehicles design spec. In a non-pickup type truck, it is related to the weight the rear axle can take less the curb weight over the rear axle.

The correct weight carrying forumula when using a properly adjusted WDH that distributes the tongue weight across both front rear axles is GWVR - Curb weight. The resulting number represents the total weight carrying capacity of the particular vehicle including tongue weight, cargo and passengers, but it's often much higher than the simple payload capacity.

Bottom line: when towing anything approaching max capacity be careful about making generalized statements -- the devil is always in the details.

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

When we bought the GC, we went through the 25' Safari FB and removed hundreds of pounds of crap. Net weight when we were done was 6300# without water, with propane.

Did you toss personal stuff or did you remove Airstream parts?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Garfield

I know nothing about towing with a GC so can't comment on that, but feel the need to correct some misinformation about weights. I often see comments about payload capacity and tongue weights being the limiting factor when towing. In fact, payload/tongue weights only become the determining factor when towing WITHOUT a weight distribution hitch (WDH). Most everyone reading these forums tows with a WDH (or should be), so lets start with that assumption.

The payload capacity is typically the manufacturer's recommended weight that you can simply toss in a trunk and not exceed a vehicles design spec. In a non-pickup type truck, it is related to the weight the rear axle can take less the curb weight over the rear axle.

The correct weight carrying forumula when using a properly adjusted WDH that distributes the tongue weight across both front rear axles is GWVR - Curb weight. The resulting number represents the total weight carrying capacity of the particular vehicle including tongue weight, cargo and passengers, but it's often much higher than the simple payload capacity.

Bottom line: when towing anything approaching max capacity be careful about making generalized statements -- the devil is always in the details.

Go to the scales and learn what the real world weights are.

It doesn't matter if your using a properly set-up WD hitch or not, or where the load is being distributed.
If the scales say your overloaded, you are. If your 500lbs over the axle, tire, tongue or payload you can't just wish it away.
Your WD can be perfect, your rig level as the devil but the weight is still there.

Be careful about making generalized statements about someone else's generalized statements.

Sweet Streams....

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Garfield

I know nothing about towing with a GC so can't comment on that, but feel the need to correct some misinformation about weights. I often see comments about payload capacity and tongue weights being the limiting factor when towing. In fact, payload/tongue weights only become the determining factor when towing WITHOUT a weight distribution hitch (WDH). Most everyone reading these forums tows with a WDH (or should be), so lets start with that assumption.

The payload capacity is typically the manufacturer's recommended weight that you can simply toss in a trunk and not exceed a vehicles design spec. In a non-pickup type truck, it is related to the weight the rear axle can take less the curb weight over the rear axle.

The correct weight carrying forumula when using a properly adjusted WDH that distributes the tongue weight across both front rear axles is GWVR - Curb weight. The resulting number represents the total weight carrying capacity of the particular vehicle including tongue weight, cargo and passengers, but it's often much higher than the simple payload capacity.

Bottom line: when towing anything approaching max capacity be careful about making generalized statements -- the devil is always in the details.

With due respect, I have to disagree. Payload is payload and has nothing to do with weight distribution. Its a fixed number which you should not exceed, whether you are using weight distribution hitch or not.

As far as tongue weight is concerned, manufacturers whose vehicle support weight distribution hitches specify two limits for tongue weight: one for not using weight distribution (usually called Weight Carrying), and one for using weight distribution. Weight distribution tongue weight is usually higher than weight carrying, but is still a limiting factor. Even when using weight distribution hitch you should not exceed that.

There is a third limiting factor, Axle weight ratings. Payload, tongue weight, and axle ratings usually decide (limit) your tow rating, not the advertised vehicle tow rating, which is a marketing gimmick and only valid for some ideal/unrealistic situation (Only the driver in TV, no cargo, etc.).

[Denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam

Did you toss personal stuff or did you remove Airstream parts?

Most of the weight reduction came fom tossing kitchen stuff and enough tools to rebuild the engine by the side of the road. Also re-organized stuff to distribute the load better. After 30 plus years of RV'ing, there is a tendency to stock far more than you need. As a former sailor, it made sense to carry a kit to rebuild the water pump or head. Not really necessary to carry that crap in an AS. On our last three day trip to a USFS campground, I figured that I do not need 38 gallons of water. So by taking 25 gallons, I'll drop better than 100 pounds.

AS dealers should be required to take every new buyer by the hand and show them how public scales really work. The GC tow rating is 7200#. At 6200#, I'm well within the capacity of this vehicle, even considering the 1050 tongue weight using a Propride WDH.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Engine power is rarely an issue these days.

The numbers I would check are the available payload of your Jeep and how does that correlate to the hitch weight of the trailer.

Don't tell a pilot to ignore payload and balance it in flight ... physics be darned ... the same forces are at work on the TV. Before the WDH is "tensioned", excessive load on the hitch CAN cause damage to the TV. Is there a WDH that does not need to be loaded after the initial hook up so that the TV sees only the WDH load and not the true tongue weight... YMMV

[dkottum]

Jerry, that doesn't stand up to reason.

If my hitch receiver is rated for 750# w/o w.d. and 1000# with w.d. you are saying lowering my 1000# trailer tongue weight onto the hitch receiver can damage the truck.

But if I put a 750# tongue weight trailer on the receiver without w.d. and drive over a bump in the road, the probable g-force on the truck receiver exceeded 750# and the truck is now damaged.

I don't think so.

doug