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Old 10-08-2018, 10:57 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by nryn View Post
Peter, you canít carry 8 people in your Lexus *and* tow your Airstream, can you? Iíve made my proverbial bed and will lie in it but I got the impression that loaded tongue weight and a couple of adults was about it for most vehicles.
I have regularly gone on 2-3k mile road trips with 6 in the vehicle, and Airstream in tow. Up the CA coast, Oregon, and mountainous ranges in CA. I'm not over the axle ratings, but am over payload. Without getting into the complexities of my specific vehicle suspension, it handles the 1800 payload with ease. Understand this is nothing aggressive like CanAmRV does with unibody vehicles. The Land Crusier has HD structure closer to 3/4 tons and is regularly armored for off-road or ballistics, with nothing more than adding springs. Yes will ride down the road as gentle as any Lexus.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:13 AM   #62
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That's awesome! I know you were pushing me to look at the LC platform a little more closely and I did but the numbers didn't add up for us and our gear. That said, I know that LC are regularly used to shuttle both people and gear in outback situations far more severe than anything I'll encounter in Alaska.

Anyway, I'm lucky enough to be able to dedicate the truck to Airstream duties. That was the big decision for me. I wouldn't want to drive a truck or a LC around every day (any size) but once it became clear that a tow pig would work well for me, I went for the 250 and don't need to worry about payload, distributing cargo, or axles. Which leaves me plenty of headspace to worry about other things, such as what mischief the kids are getting into...

In 7 years or so I'll reevaluate how things went. I'll know a lot more then.
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:23 AM   #63
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All this snow talk is interesting, but ... I don't live in The Great White North.

Doesn't snow down here (except the occasional freak storm, as happened last winter).

So, snow aside, is it worth the expense and the loss of mpg to have a four-wheel-drive?

I'm looking at SUVs, not pickups, but they all have the four-wheel-drive option.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:58 AM   #64
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^It's a personal choice. What do you value more? Efficiency? Cost? Capability? And potentially other factors.

It would be useful to talk about a specific model too, as you can see, many variants that may affect the value proposition.

I live in the southwest, outside of snow country. Though I like to visit there in winter too. Water itself can make for slippery situations as mentioned already. Add in a little grade, and a long period without rain, and even tarmac can be slick and can catch people off guard (which gives us Californians the reputation of not being able to drive in rain). Do you don't mind a uneventful slip here or there when accelerating? If you aren't the adventurous type and stick to nicely tended to private campgrounds, 2WD has served more than many successfully. Potentially except for the 1 or 2 memorable stuck occasions.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:28 AM   #65
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If you read what I quoted in my post, I was simply teasing that some people might actually want or need 4WD. Just like how some might want or need a 3/4 ton. I think we may agree, no one persons opinion, perspective, or decision suits everyone.

Hello pteck,


Read what you stated, understood what you stated, I went fishing and got a bite. Nothing more than friendly trolling. Be well.


Best regards and safe travels............
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:33 AM   #66
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Hook, line, and sinker. I'm still trying to swim.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:57 AM   #67
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We would compromise our adventure if we lacked 4WD or awd for our tv. We probably use it at least 1/2 dozen times a year, so over this truck’s 13 years so far we think it’s paid off. Could we do without it? Why would we?

Picked up our Airstream from warranty service and before we got home snow had covered the city streets and our driveway. Instead of clearing the driveway, we put truck in 4WD and smoothly backed up and into the space for our trailer.

Pulled over in the St Augustine Easter Rally staging area and the truck and trailer settled immediately down into the fine sugar sand. Trucko wouldn’t budge. Put truck in 4WD and it eased out effortlessly.

Tried backing into the campsite in Spruce Pine NC. Had to back uphill on loose gravel. Could have asked for reassignment, could have loosened the WD bars. Didn’t have to. 4WD backed us in without a prob.

It had rained a lot at the WBCCI Swiss National Festival Rally. Not a big problem, happens some years so tractors are on hand to pull folks out. It was nice to use our 4WD instead of getting towed out.

The BLM camp area near Bluff SD we wanted was 1/2 mile off the paved road, on a rough dirt two-track through the grass. We didn’t have to go there but would have foregone one of the best campsites we’ve ever enjoyed.

We returned to our mtn camp last winter to find the ice and snow still covering our long uphill driveway. We could have turned away and returned another day. Or we use 4WD and pull the 10% grade 1/5th mile up to our spot. Easy peasy. It was great being up here with our Airstream, enjoying the beauty of snowy woods.

I pulled the truck of the campground road to square up for backing into our campsite. Snap! I’d buried the truck axle deep all 4 wheels. 4WD was a tiny help walking the truck out after roadside assistance arrived, hooked up to us and was winching us out. But 4WD-thinking probably led me into that problem and was no use at all until after roadside assistance started pulling.

In high school after snowfalls I took my 67 beetle to a neighboring development that had valley curbs, asphalt paving, and no houses. It was downhill from both ends, maybe 100yds each, with the dip in the middle. Top of the hill start dn, turn the wheel and jerk the handbrake up momentarily to kick the back end around. Do a couple of 360s and be damned sure one end or the other is lined up when hitting the bare pavement at the bottom. Luck was with me, and I gained good experience in negotiating skids. It could have turned out much worse, like the guy in our high school parking lot. He put his VW into a skid on the icy patch but was broadside to his direction when he hit pavement. All his school books and papers seemed to find their way outta his windows as he rolled his VW. I think that was before I started sledding my VW and so I realized at least THAT precaution.

226,00 miles so far with the only maintenance upcharge being occasional fluid changes on the transfer case. Less gas mileage, more components wearing, more first cost. 4WD? We’re glad we have it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:59 AM   #68
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Hi

Bingo !!!

Going to fast in the snow is generally a very bad idea. Doubly so if there's ice somewhere in the picture.

Operator error is generally an issue with most vehicle accidents. It may be your error or the other guy's. It may be induced by a cell phone, a case of beer, or something else. 4x4 induced errors are very common. I've seen a *LOT* of them.

Bob
Yeah, but my 35 minute commute is 2 hours with 2wd in the snow. It’s maybe an hour with AWD. I don’t feel like spinning my tires or crawling away from every green light so I bought an AWD/RWD suv for winter. It’s not that 4wd accelerates better; it’s that 2wd doesn’t accelerate at all in the snow. And yes, it stops better, not that that’s important because I allow extra space cushion when it’s bad out to avoid being close to 2wds when the spin out or get stuck. I use all season tires year around and have no issue whatsoever with them.

My daily driver is an 08 Trailblazer and it handles great, has plenty of torque/power and gets great mileage. Saves my diesel truck from the salt and from idiot winter drivers. Full frame, real drive axle and a decent ride, and real brakes vs the tiny ones they put on cars. No, it doesn’t seat eight (I wouldn’t want more than 4 people in any vehicle) and it’s not fancy but it sits in the parking lot at work or at the airport and I don’t even have to think about it. It’s not pretty but it’s all one color and if it gets wrecked there are plenty of replacements for $3500 to $5000. It’s basically an Isuzu Ascender platform and was made locally for 6 years.

I increase following distance and stay well behind, or well in front of, slower less capable vehicles in bad weather. In Southeastern MI that would be an older front wheel drive Pontiac or Chevy Impala, usually with worn tires, hazard lights going in the snow, being driven with high beam headlights to “disguise” a burned out headlight from the cops. I also avoid any lifted Diesel pickup with a smokestack or lots of bumper stickers, any car with lots of people in it, and younger drivers. Those are the ones that end up spun backwards against the wall on I-94, not the pickups and 4x4s.

If you like 2wd they are very cheap used, especially the gas pickups.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:11 AM   #69
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All this snow talk is interesting, but ... I don't live in The Great White North.

Doesn't snow down here (except the occasional freak storm, as happened last winter).

So, snow aside, is it worth the expense and the loss of mpg to have a four-wheel-drive?

I'm looking at SUVs, not pickups, but they all have the four-wheel-drive option.
Up here in Montana..4X4...In Florida I would have a boat.....my 2500 ram gets 21 empty and 13.5- 14 with the 13 31í Classic...sometimes it is nice to use low range for parking....
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:25 AM   #70
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We almost always camp in back in spots vs pull through. Some are backing in up a hill on gravel. Might be able to get in there without spinning the tires, but it sure makes it easy to turn the knob to four wheel drive and back right in. Can’t imagine a pickup without four wheel drive. I don’t want to haul around four hundred pounds of sand in the winter.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:41 AM   #71
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Yeah, but my 35 minute commute is 2 hours with 2wd in the snow. Itís maybe an hour with AWD. I donít feel like spinning my tires or crawling away from every green light so I bought an AWD/RWD suv for winter. Itís not that 4wd accelerates better; itís that 2wd doesnít accelerate at all in the snow. And yes, it stops better, not that thatís important because I allow extra space cushion when itís bad out to avoid being close to 2wds when the spin out or get stuck. I use all season tires year around and have no issue whatsoever with them.

My daily driver is an 08 Trailblazer and it handles great, has plenty of torque/power and gets great mileage. Saves my diesel truck from the salt and from idiot winter drivers. Full frame, real drive axle and a decent ride, and real brakes vs the tiny ones they put on cars. No, it doesnít seat eight (I wouldnít want more than 4 people in any vehicle) and itís not fancy but it sits in the parking lot at work or at the airport and I donít even have to think about it. Itís not pretty but itís all one color and if it gets wrecked there are plenty of replacements for $3500 to $5000. Itís basically an Isuzu Ascender platform and was made locally for 6 years.

I increase following distance and stay well behind, or well in front of, slower less capable vehicles in bad weather. In Southeastern MI that would be an older front wheel drive Pontiac or Chevy Impala, usually with worn tires, hazard lights going in the snow, being driven with high beam headlights to ďdisguiseĒ a burned out headlight from the cops. I also avoid any lifted Diesel pickup with a smokestack or lots of bumper stickers, any car with lots of people in it, and younger drivers. Those are the ones that end up spun backwards against the wall on I-94, not the pickups and 4x4s.

If you like 2wd they are very cheap used, especially the gas pickups.
Um, the Isuzu Ascender was totally a GM product...on the Trailblazer platform, not the other way around.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:34 AM   #72
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I see lots of posts of 4wd -4x4 being tall. I have 4x4 3/4 chev. pu full camper trailer tow pkg. off rd. skid plates etc. high low tranny 2 or 4drive that cab sets a little closer to ground than my 2012 Escape, so you do not have to make a 4x4 that needs step ladder & lunch to crawl up to get in, and my pu is more stable in wind than Escape. Try to take 2wheel drive in farm fields haul wagons, trailers etc. you will have to tow them out. A few yrs. back I pur. a used 4x4 raised w/oversize wheels, 6 mos. later returned to stock config. never again will I have jacked up veh.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:08 AM   #73
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Um, the Isuzu Ascender was totally a GM product...on the Trailblazer platform, not the other way around.
Thought I said that? Meant they are the same. Not sure which was first.

One of the best SUVs ever in my book.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:42 AM   #74
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I’ll give one actual experience and you tell me if 4wd is worth it. Friday evening on a holiday weekend, no cell service, closest house 2 miles away with very weird signs out front, had been raining for a full day, road turned into grease; almost no steering control, 4wd and rear diff lock got me out. No kind of 2wd would have worked. I wasn’t exploring, just following a gravel road to a campground. I suspect I would have spent the night right there on the road and who knows when I would have gotten out. Imagine you are that far back in the country with a wife and children. That’s one time, probably a near worse case scenario, but I’ve had other situations too. I would never again own a 2wd truck. If you do, never go off pavement.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:58 AM   #75
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2x4 is a lower bed, otherwise 4x4 is better on all accounts.

Not sure if this was already mentioned, but the 4x4 option will hold it's value in dollars.

For example, if the initial cost difference for 4x4 is $3500 on the new vehicle, even when the rest of the truck has dropped 50%, the cost difference in the used market is still $3500 between 2x4 and 4x4.

Of course it's not a perfect science, and I didn't do a complete random sampling, but when I was justifying the added cost, I found this to be true.

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Old 10-10-2018, 10:00 AM   #76
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4WD Quote

Garrison Keillor ďIntelligence is like four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.Ē
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:03 AM   #77
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Garrison Keillor ďIntelligence is like four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.Ē
Or....in normal places with additional loads and equipment...ie, a trailer.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:53 AM   #78
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other than the obvious about driving on icy/wet roads or off road driving are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a 4 wheel drive TV over the 2 wheel---



You have mentioned the main advantages for me. I've had 5, 4 WD vehicles over the past 20 years. I love them; feel more secure. We carry a twenty foot tow rope and have been thanked many times by folk with only 2 wheel drive. Best wishes.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:03 AM   #79
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If you are taking a camper “camping “ then without question 4 wheel drive.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:23 AM   #80
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I've owned RV trailers for over 30 years and always got alone fine with 2wd, but always custom order my truck with limited slip rearend which you will need on wet grass or loose gravel. Have never gotten stuck, not once. However have seen others stuck on wet grass or loose gravel which didn't have limited slip or positraction.
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