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Old 07-31-2020, 06:34 PM   #101
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Pretty neat docs.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:41 PM   #102
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As soon as I figure out how to attach a picture, I will upload the letter and brochures. Sorry for the learning curve!
One more for good measure. Enjoy!
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:37 AM   #103
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Since somebody necro'd this thread and it came up in my notifications, I wanted to mention this for anyone who has or is considering a vintage tow vehicle.


One of the biggest and most neglected aspects of handling is replacing sagged coil springs. Moog made upgraded springs for almost everything over time, hunt for New Old Stock for your model. Generally they had a 20% stiffer spring rate. As a result, the new springs would be shorter than the old ones coming out when compared side by side on the ground, but when installed, the new springs not only sat higher, it took a much bigger bump to bottom the suspension out.



If "cargo coil" or variable rate rear springs are available, GET THEM! Makes the most amazing improvement in both unloaded comfort ride and maintaining loaded ride height and stiffness.



If your springs are sagged, and they almost certainly are, it throws the whole suspension geometry off in addition to bottoming out at the drop of a hat. Most suspensions have an upper and lower rubber bump stop. With new springs, the distance between each and the frame should be about equal. As the springs age, the lower bump stop rides closer and closer to the frame, usually leaving a shiny spot on the frame and splitting the bump stop from frequent hard contact. This is the symptom not the problem, with new coil springs the suspension will seldom bottom out and the split rubber won't matter anymore.


If your car has sagged leaf springs in the rear, the simplest improvement is a bolt on add-a-leaf kit. Better is installing new leafs, and consider upping the weight rating without overdoing it. Leaf spring manufacturers have huge inventories of off the shelf springs if you have your dimensions and ratings at hand. Finding new springs from the manufacturer is probably impossible at this age. If you need a size that doesn't have a generic replacement, leaf spring manufacturers can custom build what you need. For a dedicated tow vehicle, it would be worth building a set with an extra leaf for higher spring rate and less chance of bottoming out even at max tongue weight.



Workarounds like air shocks or spring shocks are a poor solution. The shock damping ability is usually poor, and the mounts aren't meant to support this much load. You're much better off getting top of the line gas charged shocks and replace the coil or leaf springs for proper ride height.


Bottom line: There's no improvement like new springs for your old tow vehicle!
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:34 PM   #104
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I did upgrade the travelall to front disc brakes and retro fitted some good
sway bars and dual shocks as well .Although I did tow for a few years with the drum brakes in the front 12" in size ,the 12" discs do a fantastic job
in the stopping department ,some good upgrades can be implemented .

Scott of scottanlily
Bringing this back from the dead, but would love your tips.

We have a 73 Ambassador (29') that should weigh just under 5k loaded.

I am building a 73 1210 Travelall (Fresh 392, 4speed, Full float Dana 60 with 4.10 gears) and planning on the Andersen hitch. I think it's going to do OK (I'll do shocks, spring bushings, brakes, bearings, etc. to dial it in before the first trip). It has a brake controller. I'd like to see how it does with the stock front drums (they're the big 3/4 ton 12" drums) before I do a Chevy front axle swap. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:09 PM   #105
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Hi guys,

I just finished watching Barrett-Jackson and it got me longing for a 1960s or early 70s stationwagon. I was just wondering if a full-sized stationwagon of this era would be able to pull a 31 foot Airstream? Let me know what your thought s are?

Rod
Yes... But are you willing to tow as they did in the '60's & '70's. 55mph and 10 car length following would more than likely irk some folks.

FWIW...our '53 Victoria was used to tow a Shasta 19'...back in the '60's.

Think...many upgrades.

Bob
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:56 PM   #106
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Bringing this back from the dead, but would love your tips.
. . .
I am building a 73 1210 Travelall . . .
. . .
FYI scottanlily's last post on AF was in 2008, about 6 months after the post you quoted:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f46...tml#post582078

FYI here are some "Travelall" search results on AF: https://www.google.com/search?q=Trav...=airforums.com

FYI/FWIW
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:25 AM   #107
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Yes... But are you willing to tow as they did in the '60's & '70's. 55mph and 10 car length following would more than likely irk some folks.

FWIW...our '53 Victoria was used to tow a Shasta 19'...back in the '60's.

Bob
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In 1973 cars and trucks were built for the then current road conditions. The US Interstate system was mostly on a 70 MPH speed limit*. So too were early trailers built for those speeds. Any towing speed and weight limitations were listed by the vehicle manufacture. Either in the owners manual or in a separate publication. It wasn't until 1975 that the Federal Government tied highway road funding to posted speed limits.

Typically the limitations to towing were confined to equipment by the manufacturer. Which meant a correctly equipped and well maintained tow vehicle and trailer could do much greater than 55 MPH. For 50 year old equipment, well maintained does come into question. The design of disc brakes is superior. However most combinations of TV & trailer only have disc brakes on one of 4 axles. Or two of eight wheels. If the drum brakes are well maintained (shoes, backing plates & drums) and the trailer has a controller, an all drum system is more than sufficient to do the job at speeds greater than 55MPH. To this day many over the road tractor trailer combos use drum brakes and they have a load up to 80,0000 pounds!

As to following distance, the law is reasonable and prudent. This is different for each combination. The rule of thumb, recommended by the National Safety Council, is that there should be a three-second following distance between two vehicles. That distance changes during the 3 second time period due to speed. That guideline is for clear day time driving. Doubling that time would be prudent in rain, snow or fog. Night time, traveling up and down grades or when ice is present have separate concerns to be handled.

I would not be afraid of driving a 1973 Travelall at speeds greater than 55 in a prudent manner with a vehicle in stock condition towing a trailer as long as all of the systems are in very good condition. I know as a boy riding in the back of a 1964 Ford wagon my father drove faster than 55 towing a trailer. And the roads were not as good then.

*In 1973 both Nevada and Montana had NO speed limit on Interstate roads during the day time hours.

Action
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Old 03-06-2021, 10:05 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Action View Post
In 1973 cars and trucks were built for the then current road conditions. The US Interstate system was mostly on a 70 MPH speed limit*. So too were early trailers built for those speeds. Any towing speed and weight limitations were listed by the vehicle manufacture. Either in the owners manual or in a separate publication. It wasn't until 1975 that the Federal Government tied highway road funding to posted speed limits.

Typically the limitations to towing were confined to equipment by the manufacturer. Which meant a correctly equipped and well maintained tow vehicle and trailer could do much greater than 55 MPH. For 50 year old equipment, well maintained does come into question. The design of disc brakes is superior. However most combinations of TV & trailer only have disc brakes on one of 4 axles. Or two of eight wheels. If the drum brakes are well maintained (shoes, backing plates & drums) and the trailer has a controller, an all drum system is more than sufficient to do the job at speeds greater than 55MPH. To this day many over the road tractor trailer combos use drum brakes and they have a load up to 80,0000 pounds!

As to following distance, the law is reasonable and prudent. This is different for each combination. The rule of thumb, recommended by the National Safety Council, is that there should be a three-second following distance between two vehicles. That distance changes during the 3 second time period due to speed. That guideline is for clear day time driving. Doubling that time would be prudent in rain, snow or fog. Night time, traveling up and down grades or when ice is present have separate concerns to be handled.

I would not be afraid of driving a 1973 Travelall at speeds greater than 55 in a prudent manner with a vehicle in stock condition towing a trailer as long as all of the systems are in very good condition. I know as a boy riding in the back of a 1964 Ford wagon my father drove faster than 55 towing a trailer. And the roads were not as good then.

*In 1973 both Nevada and Montana had NO speed limit on Interstate roads during the day time hours.

Action
Good.

I DID tow in '73 and am in no hurry to do it again with 48yr old tech and today's crowded highways and driver mentality.

Bob
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Old 03-06-2021, 10:16 AM   #109
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Well I am pleased to travel with over 50 year old vehicles.
In addition that is what this thread is about.
So not sure why you are posting here if that is not your preference.

I do frequent Arizona Highways and I am a fan of Route 66 running through Northern Arizona

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Old 03-06-2021, 10:17 AM   #110
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The Olds Vista Cruiser
I'll second the Old's Vista cruiser. Nice wagon and with a bullet proof 455.

We had a new 1970 Ford Country Squire when I was kid. My sister got a bad sunburn from riding in the back rumble seat on a long road trip. Almost ruined her vacation.
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Old 03-06-2021, 09:36 PM   #111
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In 1973 cars and trucks were built for the then current road conditions. The US Interstate system was mostly on a 70 MPH speed limit*. So too were early trailers built for those speeds. Any towing speed and weight limitations were listed by the vehicle manufacture. Either in the owners manual or in a separate publication. It wasn't until 1975 that the Federal Government tied highway road funding to posted speed limits.

Typically the limitations to towing were confined to equipment by the manufacturer. Which meant a correctly equipped and well maintained tow vehicle and trailer could do much greater than 55 MPH. For 50 year old equipment, well maintained does come into question. The design of disc brakes is superior. However most combinations of TV & trailer only have disc brakes on one of 4 axles. Or two of eight wheels. If the drum brakes are well maintained (shoes, backing plates & drums) and the trailer has a controller, an all drum system is more than sufficient to do the job at speeds greater than 55MPH. To this day many over the road tractor trailer combos use drum brakes and they have a load up to 80,0000 pounds!

As to following distance, the law is reasonable and prudent. This is different for each combination. The rule of thumb, recommended by the National Safety Council, is that there should be a three-second following distance between two vehicles. That distance changes during the 3 second time period due to speed. That guideline is for clear day time driving. Doubling that time would be prudent in rain, snow or fog. Night time, traveling up and down grades or when ice is present have separate concerns to be handled.

I would not be afraid of driving a 1973 Travelall at speeds greater than 55 in a prudent manner with a vehicle in stock condition towing a trailer as long as all of the systems are in very good condition. I know as a boy riding in the back of a 1964 Ford wagon my father drove faster than 55 towing a trailer. And the roads were not as good then.

*In 1973 both Nevada and Montana had NO speed limit on Interstate roads during the day time hours.

Action


I had an original Airstream brochure with my old 1975 trailer. I can’t recall the exact wording, but there was a reference to towing at 70 mph. That language showed up in other early ‘70s brochures - the copy was clearly written before the double nickel became a reality in 1973/74.
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Old 03-09-2021, 12:30 PM   #112
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I had an original Airstream brochure with my old 1975 trailer. I can’t recall the exact wording, but there was a reference to towing at 70 mph. That language showed up in other early ‘70s brochures - the copy was clearly written before the double nickel became a reality in 1973/74.
Very interesting. I'm definitely going to take it easy and ease into it. I'll pack a bit lighter than we do today with the 1 ton diesel.

Objectively, I expect it to be similar to when we pulled it with our 2007 Tahoe, which was adequate. The Tahoe vs the Travelall are nearly identical in many regards (torque, wheelbase, etc), so I think once the travelall is well sorted (new shocks/spring bushings, etc) and the combination is set up well (properly adjusted weight distrbution/sway control/brake gain) that it'll be good. Not as easy as with the monster truck, but a lot more fun.
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