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Old 12-04-2020, 09:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
paiceman post above is good to understand. I also pulled 2 different model year 25's (2008 FC and a "new"2014 FC) with my then "new" 2012 F150 Platinum 4x4 Echoboost, with Max Trailer Tow package. Never an issue with power while towing, but my "actual" payload was only 1039lbs! I didn't understand the "on-line" advertising spec and "sales folks" were that far off telling me the F150 has over 2000lbs payload I only found out how far off I was when I started paying attention to payload threads, here on he Forum...what a shock to find out how overloaded I was with that truck!

Anyway, The F150 EB towed fine; I had some braking issues couple times coming down steep grades and I had to slow down due to overheating while traveling thru Vegas in summer a few times. But, like paicman, I also was overloaded with kayaks, a generator, camp gear, firewood, most trips and did not know it first few years! Getting it right is important. To me, towing is not the issue; its being within spec, braking, and handling on the road. The 1/2T's will tow fine for most AS's up to a 25' AS, but I personally, would not go to bigger models with any 1/2T(27'-30').
How you came up with the 1039lbs payload number. Was that the number printed on the door jam sticker?
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Old 12-05-2020, 12:06 AM   #22
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This guy did his homework and pulls an FC30 with a properly equipped F-150: . He had to special order his truck to get what he needed.
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Old 12-05-2020, 05:25 AM   #23
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2019 Ford F-150 Lariat @ 1,851 payload

We did a factory order. 2019 Ford F-150 Lariat, 4x4, Super Crew, 5.5' bed, 3.5L Eco, 501A, Trailer Tow Package, Trailer Tow Mirrors, Tailgate Step, Bucket Seats, Trailer Brake, Navigation, Spray-in Bedliner. Payload @ 1,851 lbs. Great truck to tow our GT 23’ FB.
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:04 AM   #24
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How you came up with the 1039lbs payload number. Was that the number printed on the door jam sticker?
Yes, 1039 on the doorjamb. When I talked to the Service Manager about it few years after purchase, he said the Platinum and King Ranch 4x4 models back in 2012 were notoriously low in payload due to all the options on those models...power running boards, sunroof, max tow package (radiator/oil cooler), special wheels, etc...

When I was looking for a new 1/2T replacment in 2017, I visited RAM, GM, Toyota, and Ford lots here in Austin. I was looking for a new 2017 with 8-10speed transmission, max tow packages, and at least 1700lbs payload. RAM and Toyota had nothing over 1400lbs...(most were below) GM (Chevy/GMC) had a few, but no tow mirrors offered...(go figure) We were looking to upgrade to a 28' FC and wife really pushed me to getting a 3/4T diesel. She reasoned since we spend a lot of time on the road between TX and MT...that's how I ended up with the F250 I have now; I had just driven a "demo 2016 F250 6.7L but I hated the ride; so I was leaning toward the a new 2017 F150 EB King Ranch model 4x4 with 10speed with 1600lb payload...wife urged me to try the new 2017 F250 and the ride was much better since they changed the suspension in 2017. She saw a white KR model they just delivered on the lot, and the rest is history...
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:22 AM   #25
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We did a factory order. 2019 Ford F-150 Lariat, 4x4, Super Crew, 5.5' bed, 3.5L Eco, 501A, Trailer Tow Package, Trailer Tow Mirrors, Tailgate Step, Bucket Seats, Trailer Brake, Navigation, Spray-in Bedliner. Payload @ 1,851 lbs. Great truck to tow our GT 23’ FB.
I also did sit down with a Ford sales specialist and specd out a new one in 2017; it was a Lariat also with the options you mention, and it had the "camper package" too I believe...was over 2000lbs payload as I recall?

Forgive me if I repeat myself with a couple of observations I share with others who own the larger 3/4-1T diesel powered TV's: When towing an 25' or larger AS, there is no comparison in performance, handling, payload, (2200bs) and braking (especially with the engine brake) between a 1/2T and a 3/4-1T diesel powered TV's. If you haven't done this test yourself going up/down/around in the Rockies towing while auto engine brake engaged with cruise control on, you just won't understand the big difference the larger TV brings to the task.
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Old 12-06-2020, 12:19 PM   #26
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This question is asked 3 times a month

This question is asked routinely in different ways and the same people give the same answer each time, which boils down to, get 1 ton and you will never worry again about anything towing related.
The reason the question is asked so often is many don't like 3/4-1 ton trucks. We are not full timers, we don't tow through the Rookies routinely and we usually tow less than 5,000 miles annually.
So... riddle me this.
late model F150 have a 7000 lbs frame, axle limits that add up to more than 7000 lbs and a tow rating of 10,000 or more. This gives me a total combined truck and trailer weight of 17,-18,000 lbs.
if my truck is loaded to 7,000 and my trailer is loaded to 7,000-7,500 this is well under the total combined weight by 3-4,000 lbs.
Why do you say my suspension or axles or brakes or transmission are not designed to handle this?
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Old 12-06-2020, 12:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dick tracy View Post
...late model F150 have a 7000 lbs frame, axle limits that add up to more than 7000 lbs and a tow rating of 10,000 or more. This gives me a total combined truck and trailer weight of 17,-18,000 lbs.
if my truck is loaded to 7,000 and my trailer is loaded to 7,000-7,500 this is well under the total combined weight by 3-4,000 lbs.
Why do you say my suspension or axles or brakes or transmission are not designed to handle this?

Yeah, lots of opinions here. I like to focus on safety and safety is a continuum. There are no absolutes and there is no absolutely safe rig. It all comes down to what you are comfortable with. If your rig is within all the specified limits, GVWR, payload, axle weights, tongue weight, and so on, then I personally don’t feel like I have any reason to say your rig is unsafe. Also, I would have to say that if you are within all the mfg limits and you have the appropriate tow package then your suspension, axles, brakes, and transmission _are_ all designed to handle that weight. That is information provided by the mfg, not my opinion. If you are running right at all the limits, your safety margin is less than if you were not. If you run over the limits your safety margin is further reduced. Again, fact, not opinion. It all depends on how comfortable you are with your rig, how much money you are willing to spend to be more comfortable, and how you use your tow vehicle when not towing. I’m lucky, my daily driver is a Camry and I use my Ram 2500 for towing and trips to Lowes. Not everyone can or wants to do that. My suggestion to everyone is to educate yourself as best you can about towing your rig, weigh your rig so you are at least informed as to where you are at with respect to the numbers, and drive slower than you think you need to.
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Old 12-07-2020, 10:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick tracy View Post
This question is asked routinely in different ways and the same people give the same answer each time, which boils down to, get 1 ton and you will never worry again about anything towing related.
The reason the question is asked so often is many don't like 3/4-1 ton trucks. We are not full timers, we don't tow through the Rookies routinely and we usually tow less than 5,000 miles annually.
So... riddle me this.
late model F150 have a 7000 lbs frame, axle limits that add up to more than 7000 lbs and a tow rating of 10,000 or more. This gives me a total combined truck and trailer weight of 17,-18,000 lbs.
if my truck is loaded to 7,000 and my trailer is loaded to 7,000-7,500 this is well under the total combined weight by 3-4,000 lbs.
Why do you say my suspension or axles or brakes or transmission are not designed to handle this?
It's your decision on weather you want to stay within the TV specifications or not, right? If the "max payload" sticker on your doorjamb says 1500lbs, and with your tongue weight on the hitch, passengers, and cargo in the back loaded you have 1800lbs, your 300lbs over the specified payload for that vehicle the way it was set up originally. Likely, may never have an issue. But, Technically speaking, if an accident were to happen, insurance folks likely will want to know if your towing within your limits...that's the issue. Some here don't care; some here think it's fine if you modify your TV beyond its original limits. Others want to stay within specs. It's your decision either way...
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:32 PM   #29
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F-150?

My wife and I have a 2020 F-150 XLT and a 2020 Flying Cloud 30. We've just completed a three-and-a-half-month trip during which we towed 4500+ miles over a range of terrains and weather conditions. These included two-lane mountain roads at 10% grade and flat stretches with heavy crosswinds.

The bottom line is that the truck did fine. In fact, I'd say it did better than that—we think it did great. Having said that, I do think there are several reasons for that.

First, the truck is properly configured. We have the 3.5 EcoBoost with the 10-speed transmission, the Max Towing Package, and 20-inch wheels. (I would have liked to have the Max Payload Package too, but those are hard to find.) Ford says this set-up can tow up to 12,500 pounds. The GVWR of the AS 30 is much lower than that (8800).

Second, we were not overloaded. In the truck bed we stow two bicycles, two folding tables and chairs, and various additional odds and ends that aren't very heavy. The back seat is essentially just our two dogs, who aren't very big. My wife and I aren't real heavy either. And we don't have the extra weight that the more expensive trim packages bring with them. In the trailer, we carry what we need but are careful not to bring unnecessary stuff. (It's still camping!) Importantly, we did not guess about weight. Before setting off, we took the fully loaded rig to the nearby CAT scales. There we learned that the TV axle weights were both below Ford's stated GAWR for front and rear. We also learned that the axle weight of the AS was 6920. The total axle weight was 13,640 compared to a GCWR of 18,100. I'm always surprised when I learn that people don't bother to weigh their rigs. (CAT makes it really easy with their iPhone app. There's a YouTube video about this.)

Third, we use a ProPride hitch. These are expensive and heavy, but we think they're worth it. Not only does it completely eliminate sway, the weight distribution jacks allow you to fine tune the amount of weight on the rear axle of the TV. I know plenty of people swear by less expensive hitches, but we feel that the ProPride definitely enhanced our safety and sense of confidence and may also have helped with the truck's towing performance.

Fourth, I don't drive any faster than is safe and comfortable. This can mean 70 mph on a flat Interstate with no wind or much slower with significant ups and downs or heavy crosswinds. We had no trouble getting up very steep grades in WV and western SC and NC, and the transmission, in tow mode, was a real help on the descents. (By the way, we averaged 12-13 mpg when towing.)

I still wonder sometimes about whether we should have bought a 250, mainly because that seems to be what many people prefer, but honestly we're really happy with the 150. (It's also a great ride when not towing.) I can't make a firsthand comparison, but if we had to do it over again we'd pick same truck (with the addition of the Heavy Duty Payload package if possible).

As for a 30-foot AS (it's actually 30' 11") versus a slightly smaller one, everyone will have their own preferences. We wanted to take long trips. We're not full-timers, but we want to be on the road for at least 10 months out of the year. For us, we therefore thought the bigger, the better. That was the right call for us. We love our Airstream!

Good luck dshiffman. Hope you can pull it off! Many great adventures await you if you do!
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by David in Lex View Post
My wife and I have a 2020 F-150 XLT and a 2020 Flying Cloud 30. We've just completed a three-and-a-half-month trip during which we towed 4500+ miles over a range of terrains and weather conditions. These included two-lane mountain roads at 10% grade and flat stretches with heavy crosswinds.

The bottom line is that the truck did fine. In fact, I'd say it did better than that—we think it did great. Having said that, I do think there are several reasons for that.

First, the truck is properly configured. We have the 3.5 EcoBoost with the 10-speed transmission, the Max Towing Package, and 20-inch wheels. (I would have liked to have the Max Payload Package too, but those are hard to find.) Ford says this set-up can tow up to 12,500 pounds. The GVWR of the AS 30 is much lower than that (8800).

Second, we were not overloaded. In the truck bed we stow two bicycles, two folding tables and chairs, and various additional odds and ends that aren't very heavy. The back seat is essentially just our two dogs, who aren't very big. My wife and I aren't real heavy either. And we don't have the extra weight that the more expensive trim packages bring with them. In the trailer, we carry what we need but are careful not to bring unnecessary stuff. (It's still camping!) Importantly, we did not guess about weight. Before setting off, we took the fully loaded rig to the nearby CAT scales. There we learned that the TV axle weights were both below Ford's stated GAWR for front and rear. We also learned that the axle weight of the AS was 6920. The total axle weight was 13,640 compared to a GCWR of 18,100. I'm always surprised when I learn that people don't bother to weigh their rigs. (CAT makes it really easy with their iPhone app. There's a YouTube video about this.)

Third, we use a ProPride hitch. These are expensive and heavy, but we think they're worth it. Not only does it completely eliminate sway, the weight distribution jacks allow you to fine tune the amount of weight on the rear axle of the TV. I know plenty of people swear by less expensive hitches, but we feel that the ProPride definitely enhanced our safety and sense of confidence and may also have helped with the truck's towing performance.

Fourth, I don't drive any faster than is safe and comfortable. This can mean 70 mph on a flat Interstate with no wind or much slower with significant ups and downs or heavy crosswinds. We had no trouble getting up very steep grades in WV and western SC and NC, and the transmission, in tow mode, was a real help on the descents. (By the way, we averaged 12-13 mpg when towing.)

I still wonder sometimes about whether we should have bought a 250, mainly because that seems to be what many people prefer, but honestly we're really happy with the 150. (It's also a great ride when not towing.) I can't make a firsthand comparison, but if we had to do it over again we'd pick same truck (with the addition of the Heavy Duty Payload package if possible).

As for a 30-foot AS (it's actually 30' 11") versus a slightly smaller one, everyone will have their own preferences. We wanted to take long trips. We're not full-timers, but we want to be on the road for at least 10 months out of the year. For us, we therefore thought the bigger, the better. That was the right call for us. We love our Airstream!

Good luck dshiffman. Hope you can pull it off! Many great adventures await you if you do!
The F150 with the EB and a 10speed is a great truck for towing the right size trailer. The issue is with a larger Trailer (27'+), handling can become an issue. We loved our 2012 F150 Platinum 4x4, but payload on that particular vehicle was always a problem at 1039lbs, pulling 25' AS's, no matter it was spec'd to tow 12,000lbs. I would personally would not tow anything larger than a 25' with a 1/2T. That's why we ended up going to the F250 when we got our 28'; payload, handling, and braking including engine brake on the diesel. I had a couple close calls with our F150 while towing the 25' which ended up without incident. We had a close call with our 28' and the F250 where both wife and I agree, the F150 would not have handled the situation...anyway, wouldn't have wanted to test that theory.

I saw an unfortunate accident post on Facebook yesterday by an AS owner.
He had just picked up a new 2021 Airstream 28' and was pulling with a new Suburban. Anyone else see that? Driver said he thought his vehicle could handle the larger 28' AS, but as he was entering the freeway at 60mph, a semi gong 80mph passed him, whipped the AS and rolled both the AS and the new Suburban. Here is the post, but you should see the pictures of the wreck on Airstream Addicts:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Airs...05920196341642

Laurent Kim
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· December 6 at 3:27 PM ·
Just signed a 2021 FC 27FBT after a total loss accident in September and I thought I'd share our experience for an educational purpose. Please no bad comments.
Folks, please make sure you have an adequate vehicle and hitch setup to tow your AS. Even our 2015 Suburban (8000lbs capacity due to rear axle ratio) rolled over with the trailer. It was a 2021 FC 28RBT. I had a Blue Ox Sway controller (1000lbs hitch weight rating). And yes, we have thousands of miles of driving experience with 16, 19, 23, and 25 ft AS's.
We were one hour north of Cheyenne, WY. Just got on to the freeway after a brief break going less than 55mph and an 18 wheeler passed us by at 80+ mph at 80mph zone. We swayed and ended up rolling over. BTW, no wind at all that day.
I ended up getting a GMC Sierra 2500HD to pull the new trailer.

Be safe out there.
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Old 12-08-2020, 07:44 AM   #31
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I tried several 1/2 ton pickups...just an oversized car..I will stick with the 3/4 ton...they will last longer...
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:11 PM   #32
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I've been towing a 2013 International 27FB with a 2016 Ford F150 Lariat, 3.5 liter Ecoboost, max tow package all over the western US and have never had a problem whatsoever. Mountains, valleys, rain, snow, cold, heat, bring it on.
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:37 AM   #33
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I've been towing a 2013 International 27FB with a 2016 Ford F150 Lariat, 3.5 liter Ecoboost, max tow package all over the western US and have never had a problem whatsoever. Mountains, valleys, rain, snow, cold, heat, bring it on.
Yea; famous last words: "Bring it on!" Tell that to the poor guy mentioned in my earlier post #30! Only takes one incident to ruin your day...
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:56 AM   #34
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Yea; famous last words: "Bring it on!" Tell that to the poor guy mentioned in my earlier post #30! Only takes one incident to ruin your day...
Interesting to look at the pictures of the setup that you are talking about. In the picture before the incident you can clearly see that the hitch is not setup correctly. There is zero bend in the bars and way too many links are showing. This means that no weight is being transferred back to the front of the truck which is making the rear end sit lower. I would consider this a major factor in the accident.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:45 PM   #35
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did you read my post???

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
It's your decision on weather you want to stay within the TV specifications or not, right? If the "max payload" sticker on your doorjamb says 1500lbs, and with your tongue weight on the hitch, passengers, and cargo in the back loaded you have 1800lbs, your 300lbs over the specified payload for that vehicle the way it was set up originally. Likely, may never have an issue. But, Technically speaking, if an accident were to happen, insurance folks likely will want to know if your towing within your limits...that's the issue. Some here don't care; some here think it's fine if you modify your TV beyond its original limits. Others want to stay within specs. It's your decision either way...
If the truck is rated as 7000lbs and the trailer is loaded to 7000-7500lbs and the truck has a tow weight max of 11000lbs, that is a combined gross capacity of 18000lbs and most f150 & 27' AS total out at 14000-14500, well UNDER vehicle stated limits.
The question is, why do you one ton apologist continue to say the brakes, transmission, suspension, axles are loaded over their design rating limits?
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:21 AM   #36
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Lots of opinions as always, a post on towing is like a magnet. For some reason, we are all drawn to such posts, including myself, a tell-tale sign that it's important to most people. Now that we have established it's important, everyone's degree of importance on the towing setup, safety, financial considerations, type of camping they do, etc., will drive their decision. I can share mine like many people already have, and hopefully, the OP or someone else can benefit from my experiences.

We bought a 25FB a couple of years ago. We have a 2012 GL450 rated for towing 7500# and ~1600lbs payload. I did the math, and everything looked good in the spreadsheet, decided we could easily pull the AS with this SUV. We made many short trips, and it performed well, but I always had to worry about the payload. It needed constant adjustments to the hitch to keep the rear axle load within range. When we did our first long trip, ~1000miles, we decided to instead rent an F-150EB from our AS dealer, who has a fleet of trucks for this purpose. We kept on doing that for some time and were happy with this arrangement of using our SUV for short trips and renting an F150 for long trips.

After returning from our trip to Death Valley NP, we decided to buy a 3/4 ton earlier this year and purchased a 2019 RAM 2500 Hemi; we have been really happy since then. What played into our decision:
- Every time I went to the CAT scale, I stressed about being so close to the max rear axle limit. This was always in the back of my mind in all my trips, taking away a chunk of fun from those trips.
- I did a test tow with a 3/4 ton, and the difference I felt in the stability of the towing setup was night and day. Most likely due to the weight of the truck, but the towing felt so stress-free.
- The freedom to have our friends/family occasionally join us without having to go to the spreadsheet to calculate the payload was priceless.
- Above all, the whole setup just felt right. We were within the specs on everything, and it performed so much better on the same highways, same grades, the same semis passing us, etc. The experience was very different.

My 2 cents will be to not tow anything beyond 23FB(467lbs tongue weight) with a vehicle with less than 2000# payload. Hopefully, the input from all of us on the forum will help you make the right decision.
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:27 AM   #37
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Yea; famous last words: "Bring it on!" Tell that to the poor guy mentioned in my earlier post #30! Only takes one incident to ruin your day...
That wreck wasn’t due to the wrong TV. I’ve towed much heavier stuff than that with a half ton Suburban without issue. There was something wrong with the setup.

A 30 foot trailer will take a 2500 or 3500 with it if it rolls.
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:33 AM   #38
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If the truck is rated as 7000lbs and the trailer is loaded to 7000-7500lbs and the truck has a tow weight max of 11000lbs, that is a combined gross capacity of 18000lbs and most f150 & 27' AS total out at 14000-14500, well UNDER vehicle stated limits.
The question is, why do you one ton apologist continue to say the brakes, transmission, suspension, axles are loaded over their design rating limits?
First, I am not a "one ton apologist"! If you look, you will see I have a 3/4T F250. And, yes, I read your post.

You are making a case (or asking a question?) that you think your not over matched/over loaded in your "GV" numbers; you left out your "payload" numbers on your F150 which is directly related to your vehicle specs also for towing/hauling. Not sure why? That is the max-weight vehicle spec, right?

Like others here on this Forum have said, larger AS's matched to larger TV's will give you better handling, more braking, more "payload" capability, and overall safer experience. Not sure why folks get riled up about this topic. Stated before, if you have not towed the larger AS with a 3/4-1T, you will not know the difference it brings vs the smaller TV like the F150. Below is yet another towing example from Chris Cordes, a towing expert and Airstream ambassador:

https://www.trucks.com/2019/06/14/to...-math-problem/

No disrespect intended...

As for the point Richard makes in post #34 above about the Blue Ox not being properly "loaded"; I missed that but I did text Kim about that and waiting for reply. I know mine has 3.5links showing and tension when hooked up properly. Not sure if that was a factor in his incident? I know "some" those semi's can really create a vortex wind condition especially at that speed 80mph! Not sure why they are allowed to travel that fast...I see it here in TX all the time...in fact, on the tow road here, the limit is now 85 mph in few locations.
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59 View Post
That wreck wasn’t due to the wrong TV. I’ve towed much heavier stuff than that with a half ton Suburban without issue. There was something wrong with the setup.

A 30 foot trailer will take a 2500 or 3500 with it if it rolls.
Agree; it is an interesting post. I hope he replies to my questions on the hitch and set up...
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:27 PM   #40
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the question was...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
First, I am not a "one ton apologist"! If you look, you will see I have a 3/4T F250. And, yes, I read your post.

You are making a case (or asking a question?) that you think your not over matched/over loaded in your "GV" numbers; you left out your "payload" numbers on your F150 which is directly related to your vehicle specs also for towing/hauling. Not sure why? That is the max-weight vehicle spec, right?

Like others here on this Forum have said, larger AS's matched to larger TV's will give you better handling, more braking, more "payload" capability, and overall safer experience. Not sure why folks get riled up about this topic. Stated before, if you have not towed the larger AS with a 3/4-1T, you will not know the difference it brings vs the smaller TV like the F150. Below is yet another towing example from Chris Cordes, a towing expert and Airstream ambassador:

https://www.trucks.com/2019/06/14/to...-math-problem/

No disrespect intended...

As for the point Richard makes in post #34 above about the Blue Ox not being properly "loaded"; I missed that but I did text Kim about that and waiting for reply. I know mine has 3.5links showing and tension when hooked up properly. Not sure if that was a factor in his incident? I know "some" those semi's can really create a vortex wind condition especially at that speed 80mph! Not sure why they are allowed to travel that fast...I see it here in TX all the time...in fact, on the tow road here, the limit is now 85 mph in few locations.
If the truck is loaded within spec limits, 7000lbs and the trailer is loaded within specs, 7000-7500, making the total combined gross weight well under spec limits, why do "people" continue to say the axles or transmission or suspension or brakes are over worked/loaded and prone to early failure?
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