Newbie question about cold-weather Airstreaming

[ranchometal]

tagging along on this thread. We'll be doing a lot of western winter camping in our 2018 25 Flying cloud. We've been in sub-zero many times, but not for more than a night and not long without electricity. Sounds like furnace, common sense, perhaps heat pads on black and grey tank outlets and disconnecting external water or using heating elements on external water are most of the main points. I'm always worried about my external shower kit, but leaving the furnace on and the bathroom cabinetry sounds like that could take care of it. I also like the idea of a cup of antifreeze down the drains periodically.

[aftermath]

First of all, temperatures "dropping below freezing" at night tells me that the temps will be well above freezing for the rest of the time. As long as your furnace is turned on at night you shouldn't have any trouble. Your tanks are enclosed in the belly and heated air is ducted into this area.


When it gets cold it takes awhile to freeze things hard. I doubt you will be talking of temperatures in the teens. I have done something like this many times on early spring and late fall fishing trips. I leave the HW tank on through the day and turn it off when I go to bed. A tank full of hot water is not going to freeze over night. I turn it back on first thing in the morning.


Enjoy your trip and don't worry about your pipes freezing up.

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by switters

We have a 2018 Flying Cloud 23FB.

Your furnace heat is ducted to the tank area, as mentioned above. Just keep your furnace going at night, and your tanks should be fine.

Enjoy Moab!

[Rob Cope]

I cover the door to the external wash water device with a piece of insulated rubber, taped down. An extra precaution. Some anti-freeze to holding tanks seems a good idea. In winter, as I don't move, I have an electrical, vertical 'oil' heater under the dining table set very low.

[SYC2Vette]

We had freeze damage (cracked fittings) on the lines next to and behind the toilet. On our 2017 20FC/FB there is an aluminum shield that is easy to remove that covers those fittings, one might also have been related to the outdoor shower, can't remember for sure, but if you also have a shield in that area, you might remove it to expose those areas to inside air. We carry spare PEX fittings and valves and lines (and tools) just for that type of repair. That has been the only place we have seen freeze damage and have not used the tank heaters but probably should.

[Rob Cope]

I have a 2016 FC 25. I know nothing about tank heaters. Is it something newer? Electric or off the furnace? Advise please.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Rob Cope

I have a 2016 FC 25. I know nothing about tank heaters. Is it something newer? Electric or off the furnace? Advise please.

It's newer, at least for AS trailers. 12 volts 3-6 amps each heater for models online at least 1 per tank. I don't know which model AS uses.

[david.steed]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

That depends on what AS you have. As far as I know only some newer AS trailers have tank heaters(maybe under 5 years old). More motor homes might have them I don't really know.

My 2005 International has them, but only the 22’ from this year. From the manual:

The furnace supplies heat to the water lines and tanks on all models except the 22 ft. It has 12-V heat pads for the tanks. These pads are individually switched with the switch located next to the monitor panel. This feature allows the saving of battery power in a dry camping situation. To conserve battery power, RV antifreeze may used to protect the gray and black tank. Battery power will last about 3 hours using all three heat pads.

Of course many of us have different batteries and sometimes solar... these would have an effect on battery life.

[Airwave503]

We snow camp at the mountain all the time. Everybody asks "Doesn't it get cold"? Our propane heater can create a little sauna if we wanted it too. LOL

The challenges for me are:

1. condensation...everyone says leave a door or window cracked, but when it's low teens you don't want to do that all night. Instead I let it get pretty sweaty over night and them blast the fantastic fans during the day for a short time to dry things out. But if it's a warm wet blizzard, it's going to get wet and I just crank the dehumidifier when I get back to shore power...since you have power you might take a dehumidifer with you.

2. Drains freezing - I drain to an external portable gray tank and the outside connection freezes up. I refuse to run a "trickle" and bear the pump noise so I take a separate container for sink waste when it's really cold.

3. You'll have power, but if you don't and your batteries are outside, cold weather can drain them. My AGM is inside so I don't have this issue.

We cancelled our trip to Dead Horse last Spring due to covid, so I am jealous, have fun!

[Rodgerc]

We experienced a frozen line with temps in the low teens in New Mexico. Airstreams are most certainly not four season units. As mentioned above condensation is a big problem. If you have ever had the belly pan removed to see the “insulation” you would be shocked. Foil that holds a LOT of water against the plywood floor. While you are under the floor with a face full of water looking at the wet plywood have someone turn on the heater and check the volume of warm air being discharged from the under floor ducting. All very enlightening. Just my experience.

[Bernard A]

I like your question. There is more and more travel trailer company offering the 4 seasons package. I wish Airstream could be more dynamic on this issue and also on solar energy.

https://rvblogger.com/blog/4-season-...railer-brands/

[losfeliz]

Dead Horse SP is beautiful and has great campgrounds. But...is overrun with mice. I don’t know about October (maybe they scurry away in the cold) but I would have a plan for repelling outside and catching any invading mice. You’ll notice the camp hosts have lights on under their campers to keep the mice away. They swear by them.

Almost as bad as RMNP if you’re familiar. Mice everywhere. 🐁

I think I need a pet bobcat and tie him up under the camper. That should work. 😜

[AbbyA]

Originally Posted by Rob Cope

I have a 2016 FC 25. I know nothing about tank heaters. Is it something newer? Electric or off the furnace? Advise please.

It depends on the model of the Airstream. We have them in our 2018 20’ but other lengths that year don’t. They are needed if your furnace ducting doesn’t keep your tanks warm.

[2MileHi]

This may have already been suggested but open up your cabinet doors where your water lines run. We've stayed in very cold weather overnight and not had a problem.

[Flying Pig]

Camping out west in shoulder season we encountered an unexpected drop in temps. As everyone around cautioned us to disconnect city water and drain the hoses (faucets froze) we did as told and kept furnace on all night. Little did we know until the next stop down the road that the water draining from our shower underneath AS froze and cracked the pipes. We had not put antifreeze in elbows. Expensive and inconvenient! Know what you are doing before camping in freezing temps....water spewing everywhere is a costly mess. 19’Flying Cloud.

[david.steed]

A few mentioned condensation. I know something about this because we’re living in a mostly wood chalet. We had serious condensation problems for a few years while the wood was still drying- now it is better. The solution was to buy larger dehumidifiers for each room. I use one of those in the AS now and it works great. You need to be able to set it to 60 or 55% so the percentage stays under that. One issue is to have a large enough container to hold the water, which you empty during the day. Buy a good one. They seem to not work forever. High humidity is great for growing mold and you will get sick more often. Low humidity will make it noticeably easier to breathe and will keep you healthier. Your co2 levels will be highest in the morning, so air out well. Lastly, do not compare the relative humidity indoors and outdoors. You only need to focus on your living space. The Swiss are nuts about air quality and I’ve learned a lot from them in the last dozen years.

[bellj]

All really good points and most things have been mentioned. When we go camping where it's going to freeze harder at night, like now in late fall before they start using road salt, I always take certain steps for precaution. I put a small amount of antifreeze down both tanks, because even though our tanks are enclosed, the slide valves are slightly below and still exposed. I also check to make sure the cap where you connect the hose is removed enough to make sure no water somehow built up and then you can close back up until dumping. If I did find water in there, I probably would keep cap off until I could repair because I would suspect it developed a slide leak.


We have a flusher outlet where you hook a hose to, so I close off that valve inside and open the outside valve to let it drain even though it's semi-enclosed behind a door, since the bottom is still open to the outside - just reverse procedure to flush while dumping (most of our campgrounds shut off water late fall, so you have to flush your dump hose with your own internal water hose).


I also keep the water heater running to keep that from freezing, and I've used the open cabinet door idea if we're only using electric heat and it's really cold or just in the driveway and simply keeping from freezing with electric heaters set at lower temperature in-between trips. If using furnace, I don't worry about cabinets as much.


Just simple precautions to make sure. Your specific configuration might mean you could eliminate or add to some of these steps. I carry a couple of short heat tapes that I could wrap things with too, but have never needed to use those yet.

[switters]

We arrived at Dead Horse Point last night. Amazing place. I just realized that our 2018 23’ Flying Cloud 23FB doesn’t have a black/grey tank heater—or at least the on/off switch is not on the cabinet below the fridge where the Airstream help page says it should be.

Does that mean my model doesn’t have it? If not, how worried do I need to be about freezing? I think the low was in the high 30s last night but it’s supposed to drop into the high 20s on Fri and Sat night.

[AbbyA]

If you don’t have tank heaters it means your furnace ducting will keep your tanks warm I would open the cabinet doors under the sink and open the bathroom door at night. Use the furnace and you should be fine.

[smsasf]

Originally Posted by switters

We arrived at Dead Horse Point last night. Amazing place. I just realized that our 2018 23’ Flying Cloud 23FB doesn’t have a black/grey tank heater—or at least the on/off switch is not on the cabinet below the fridge where the Airstream help page says it should be.

Does that mean my model doesn’t have it?

AS manuals leave a bit to be desired. Not uncommon to have the manual state you have one thing and it not be there. My manual claims there is a bathroom ceiling exhaust vent. And even the detailed specs build sheet breakdown for my individual unit lists one under Appliances. Yet, there is none. On asking AS CS about this they did the typical Micheal Jackson verbal Moon Walk. On raising another issue last week I informed one of their staff that there were a good number of errors or misleading info in their manual. They asked me to share if I wished. I sent them about 15. Good luck.