Can we do winter in Kansas City?

[englewoodfl]

Looking at being in the Kansas City area between December and February likely with a newer 27FB. We'd buy AirSkirts or something equivalent (hay bales) if that's necessary.


Can we do this safely or is it just wishful thinking?

[majorairhead]

Winter in an Airstream. This topic has been discussed numerous times in the past. Here's my take.

If you have to, and you have access to a reliable power supply, and you have plenty of propane for heat, and you take measures to keep your plumbing from freezing, in particular freshwater inlet, exterior shower, and sewer drains, AND you have a good dehumidifier, then yeah, it's possible to do....however, Airstreams have poor insulation, and are surely not built for winter conditions.

[kb0zke]

Nearly anything can be done if you are willing to through enough money at it. Some years you could easily and happily do winter in KC. Other years absolutely not.


I wouldn't do the hay bales as you are just creating a nice place for mice to winter. While they are exploring their new home, safe from most predators, they will venture upstairs to your space where they will find all sorts of interesting stuff - wires, papers, food, etc. They may be so pleased with your space that they will join you.


How will you handle fresh water and waste water? You can run off of your fresh water tank and dump and fill every few days if you can do so when it is reasonably warm outside. I wouldn't leave any hoses connected for any longer than what it takes to dump and fill. That means that your sewer connection will have to be accessible. The caps can freeze to the pipe, making it difficult to get the cap off so you can dump.

[JeffKim]

Anecdotally, I was talking with a full timer and I asked if they follow the sun during the winter and he said no, that last December they spent a month or so in Colorado visiting family and it got down to zero a few times. He said they did just fine by keeping the furnace running to keep the pipes from freezing. I think he said the shower drain froze once and that was about it. They also had a very good dehumidifier.

KC I'd guess is mostly above freezing in the winter with occasional periods of very cold. (If I recall the Chiefs had a playoff game near zero). Getting through those cold spells would be the issue. Sounds like an interesting challenge and if you do your research and prepare it should be possible. I'd have a back-up/escape plan also like winterizing and going to a nearby hotel if there was an extended cold snap.

[TR Anderson]

You CAN, but you may not enjoy it. Kansas City has nights in the low 20's in all three months of December through February. Why would you go through the misery of skirts, insulating, sewage disposal, etc in freezing weather? Why risk freezing pipes bursting and causing thousands in repair costs, not to mention the time it takes to repair plumbing?



I guess the WHY is the real question. If it's a good reason, put on well insulated skirts and place three good electric heaters under the trailer (front-center-rear) with thermostats to turn on and off as the temperature dictates and hope the power stays on!

[Ray Eklund]

Lived in Independence and Lees Summit, Missouri, outside Kansas City.

If the Cold does not get to you... the Humidity will. Sunny and dry you can survive during the Winter fairly well. Add snow... rather tough with the humidity inside the trailer.

Very cold... the inside humidity will freeze onto the window... inside. Clear outside. You heat the interior, then need to vent to reduce the humidity. I find the humidity the hard part. Kansas City can have mild winters... or some weeks of 0 +/-.

Water? Out of the question... I would check out some Trailer Parks for an Airstream. Then get the scoop. I can dress for Cold. I cannot dress for Humidity. If you try it... take photographs and post on these Forums. It can be done... it will have its good and bad times. Search the average highs and lows for the area. Then the... maximum highs and lows. Then... make a decision. Good luck. A log cabin with an Oak Log fire... is nice.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

We lived for a while in Olathe (just outside KC). The one thing that always seemed to be present in the winter was wind. It could be warm, it could be cold, the wind was blowing pretty much all the time.

Why does this matter? Your trailer will cool down faster in heavy wind. You also will need those skirts more when the wind really is blowing.

Temperature wise .... hmmmm .... It could be in the 60's for a high for a few days. A week later it might be highs in the teens. As noted above, lows in the sub zero range are indeed quite possible.

Unless you have a *lot* of money to spend on heating (and running dehumidifiers 24/7), an AS in sub-zero temps simply isn't worth thinking about. Even with a lot of money, you would probably be going without water in the trailer to make it work.

How cold will it be this winter? Good luck working that out in advance. Might be pretty mild. Could be really cold .... there's no way to really know in advance.

Bob

[LoLo Tris]

Hi! I’m planning on living in my 25 ft. Excella this winter. I bought Airskirts, a heated hose, dehumidifier, space heater for inside if needed, an electric blanket. I also have bought faucet protectors for my outside water heater and my dump valves. It may be necessary to put some kind of heat source under my trailer - I haven’t decided 100% on that yet.

Is it doable? I think so. I’ll mostly be heating with propane. I’m in an RV park full of people who have overwintered in their travel trailers. I do have an alternate place to stay, in which case I could do an emergency winterization and bug out…..but I love my AS and am pretty hardy. I’m praying for a mild winter!

[kb0zke]

LoLo Tris, if you can, get a "permanent" tank from a propane company. Short term, it may not save you any money, but it sure will save you aggravation. You might be switching propane bottles every other day or every third day. Figure the time to take the empty bottle off the trailer, load it into the truck, drive to the propane store, get it filled, load it back into the truck, drive back to the trailer and install the full bottle, and do that three times each week, and you are looking at a significant time investment. Add to that the propensity of propane bottles to run out about 0300, and you can see the advantage of a tank next to the trailer.

[tjdonahoe]

Not me 13 31’classic froze up at 23 degrees with wind.

[englewoodfl]

Decided it's just not a good idea. Risky and more expensive than a B&B.


Thanks for all the comments.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

Decided it's just not a good idea. Risky and more expensive than a B&B.


Thanks for all the comments.

Hi

As folks found out in Texas a couple years back: By the time you *know* there's a problem ... it's really a bit too late to do anything. Winterizing the trailer at 3AM is not anything anybody is likely to do. If it freezes and the pipes crack then ... you have a mess.

I think you are making the right call on this.

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One interesting (sort of on topic) tidbit.

We had PEX plumbing in our house in Olathe. The run to the master bedroom regularly froze. Each morning ... no water in the master bath.

The pipe never split. You could run water all night and maybe keep it from freezing.

Eventually we dug into this and that and re-routed the pipe.

Bob

[englewoodfl]

We decided that assuming typical temps to get it winterized at the AS dealer in Springfield, MO. They said no problem and given that it's new I think this is the best.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Just like all the other stuff "when to winterize" is a bit of a guess. We've had seasons here that could have allowed us to wait past Christmas to winterize. We've also had seasons where the right answer is mid October.

Right now, JC seems to be doing a booming business winterizing RV's ....

Bob

[suncoasteng]

Hay bales catch fire, suggest any thermal protection use conventional fire rated building products.

[Saullman]

Airskirts IMHO do nothing, in fact the skylight heat insulator they sell advertises that it keeps the heat in and cold out and in summer keeps the heat out and cool in. What a waste of money, it acted like a solar radiator and heated up the skylight area by 20+ degrees. I did return it for a full refund. I would bet my next paycheck if you were to utilize a temp probe that the temp differential under your rig with Airskirts and outside would be a few degrees if that. Like others have stated, the Airstreams are not well insulated, the newer units do have tank heaters, which im sure utilize either propane or electricity, ensure you have plenty of propane and are hooked up to shore power to achieve warmth.

[Piggy Bank]

I see OP decided against this.

Good Decision!

We sometimes can't even get our AS door open if we do a pop-in to check on it at the storage place. Blowing wind causing frozen ice is real.

Kansas City in winter is icy, windy, often snowy, and sometimes has cold snaps below zero for days at a time. It is not fun.

[Gents]

Originally Posted by LoLo Tris

Hi! I’m planning on living in my 25 ft. Excella this winter. I bought Airskirts, a heated hose, dehumidifier, space heater for inside if needed, an electric blanket. I also have bought faucet protectors for my outside water heater and my dump valves. It may be necessary to put some kind of heat source under my trailer - I haven’t decided 100% on that yet.

Is it doable? I think so. I’ll mostly be heating with propane. I’m in an RV park full of people who have overwintered in their travel trailers. I do have an alternate place to stay, in which case I could do an emergency winterization and bug out…..but I love my AS and am pretty hardy. I’m praying for a mild winter!

I can’t believe all the negative comments about wintering in their Airstream. I am on my 4th yr full time and every winter I visit many ski resorts including Breckenridge, Park City, Lake Tahoe, Whistler Blackcomb, etc. The first two years I was in a Basecamp 20X and now am in a Flying Cloud 27FBT. With proper planning you will do well and I have never spent a cold night. I do have a heated water hose which I also insulate at the source and at the trailer inlet. The toughest issue is the dump valves. The tanks will be fine either by tank heaters (Basecamp) or furnace (FC). However, the short distance from the tanks to the ejection valves is unprotected and will freeze. To eliminate this issue I have wrapped the pipes with heat tape covered with insulation and finally waterproof tape. The heat tape is then plugged into the external outlet. Be prepared to use a lot of LP to run your furnace but I conserve by using an oil filled electric heater in the bedroom, close the curtain and turn the furnace down to 45 which will keep my tanks from freezing. When I wake up in the morning I turn the thermostat up and lay back down for a few moments till the whole trailer is toasty warm. I did use AirSkirts the first year with my Basecamp and withstood -31 degrees one night in Breckenridge. Have not used any additional skirting since then and all has been well. One more hack is to place Reflectix in the windows. Easy to do and it really helps. I also have Airskirts inflatable insulation product for the skylights. And yes, a dehumidifier is essential.

[blahargoue]

I live in Utah where it gets very cold in the winter. I don't live in an RV. I have done a lot of cold weather camping at various ski resorts and comfortably done so in my previous diesel pusher motorcoach with a seperate basement heater and tank heaters. No issues.

I haven't yet bought an Airstream. The only thing holding me back is the extra efforts that it sounds like owners go thru to accomodate constant sub zero temperatures. I do use my RVs in the winter. If you are talking about wintering out in KC, you might be better served by consideing another high quality rig that is better suited for sub freezing temperatures. Consider Northwood manufacturing Arctic Fox rigs. Full 2.5" side walls, dual pane windows, basement heat with electric tank heaters and one of the industry's best insulation packages.

No, it's not an Airstream and the resale value will not be nearly as high but my research indicates that it is likely the best towable for winter use.