Below Freezing Boondocking Survival: Under 25 feet Trailer

[Ray Eklund]

We manage very well to Off the Grid Boondock at high elevations and cold / freezing temperatures. At elevation July and August... snow, sleet and freezing temperatures in the Rocky Mountains. Yes... ask the 2016 Wyoming Adventure Survivors.

(1) An Airstream is like sleeping under a sheet in a snow storm in a Tent.

(2) Tent camping using sleeping bags and two Blue Heelers is like an Airstream with propane furnace, sleeping bags and frost within the trailer.

(3) A WINTER Travel Trailer is best if UNDER 25 feet long, prefer two 30 pound propane tanks, orientated trailer side towards Sunrise for AM interior heat and exterior heating.

(4) Longer Airstream... 25 foot is manageable. Once at 27 to 34 feet, wait until the lows are above 30 degrees, works.

We found our 23 foot 2006 Safari comfortable and easy to maintain a comfort level, within a range to conserve propane and not suffer the negative effects of freezing water tanks, lines and grey / black water tanks. This Safari had the 'white mouse fur' interior which did help.

Our 2016 25 foot International was marginal, but could be managed if the furnace was set at 55F. It ran often. The inner skin was cold to the touch. Two 30 pound propane tanks are advised and carefully observed as to one tank being empty and switching automatically to the other.

Scroll to 2022 when I found a 2019 Oliver Elite II, finally. I wanted 2019 to be compared to the 2019 Airstream with appliances and technology available at that time.

The Oliver... is compared to our 23 foot Safari as to length and interior. The Safari is has a bit more interior and is slightly longer shell.

The Oliver was EXCEPTIONAL AT SPRING COLD EVENINGS and EXCEPTIONAL TO WARM THE INTERIOR AFTER SUNRISE.

We spent ten days in the mountains of central New Mexico early April. Morning temperature before Sunrise was 11F to 18F. Dog's water bowel frozen to the bottom. No frost as the humidity is under 8% at best. We had multiple covers which Nancy used. She is... cold blooded. I am hot blooded... and shed covers like a dog sheds hair. The Oliver has twin beds. The pup Heeler curls up with Nancy as a joint heating project.

Higher humidity... venting, venting and venting.

The Safari 23 foot was between a Twin and a Double bed. I furnish the heat for Nancy.

We used 3.68 gallons of propane in 10 days from a full 7 gallon tank. Furnace set at 55F, but may have cycled three times an evening. The design of the Oliver protects all water lines and water tanks. Under the curb side bed is all of the water system for the interior. The water tank is above the frame and within the shell area, from what I could tell. Water faucet flowed with room temperatures.

Olivers ARE, in my opinion at the moment... THE BEST WINTER CAMPING TRAILER AND THE 23 FOOT SAFARI IS SECOND. Our 27 foot... would require a lot more Propane under the conditions we camped this month in New Mexico.

Furnace is partially responsible for comfort in the AM. Solar is instantly hot once the Sun rises... hard to explain... but talk to Skiers at 12,000 feet in tee shirts. We have stripped down to cool off at Keystone Ski Area in Colorado in Winter.

We orientate the door side of the trailer at SUNRISE. At elevation, low humidity and thin air... the SUN is HOT. We open the door, screen door open or closed, open windows on the Sunny side and FREE HEAT.

This, of course is a simplified description of how we manage cold and sub freezing Off the Grid Boondocking with NO Hookups... but SOLAR IS 100% REQUIRED.

I include photos:
First: June 2006 7100 feet elevation Wyoming.
Second: May 2009 New Mexico central mountains 6700 feet elevation.
Third: April 2022 Western Wyoming, 7000 feet elevation.
Fourth: May 2020 Oregon Buttes, Wyoming 6800 feet elevation.

(photos not in order, but what the Hell... but close enough.)

We were warm. Comfortable and neither of us had a complaint. It was our FIRST trip to check out the Oliver Elite II. We will be leaving again soon at Elevation. Ahhhh....

I rate the Oliver Elite II at 100%.
I rate the 23 foot Safari at 85%
I rate the 27 foot International at 70%.
I rate our insulated mountain tent at 30%.

To maintain comfort the Oliver uses the least propane. Of course, the longer the trailer, the more propane needed. When I filled the Propane Tank on the Oliver I have the receipt, so know exactly how much was used. This includes the Propane Norcold Refer... a wonderful refrigerator compared to the Dometic. Cooking on propane. Did not take a hot shower.

My opinion... of course and sticking to it.

[s1000pre]

To avoid the humidity or frost buildup. Unlock a window and break the seal, you don’t need to prop open. Turn on the bathroom fan and you are good to go.

[Ray Eklund]

What freezes? First? Yourself, your fresh water tank, outside dog's water bowl or interior water lines when RV Camping in Winter?

Probably the dog's water bowl sitting outside in 25F or lower temperatures . The cold extracts the 'calories' from the water and the water reaches the Freezing Point. Add wind, and it enhances freezing of water.

Look up: 'Heat Calories lost to Freeze Water' (I did and a lot of easy explanations.)

A lake freezes from the top downward. Ice floats as the frozen water is less dense than the liquid form.

We do not Winter Camp. You have to know what your are doing... we do not, as we do not Winter Camp as temperature drops can be extreme and you have no options.

Go to a Trailer Park in Aspen, Colorado and inquire. If you find a trailer park.

If you want to be safe... NO Water. The water in your refrigerator is still liquid, when the outside temperature is 0 degrees F. Drinking water in refrigerator. None in the Fresh, Black or Grey tanks.

I am tossing these ideas out for those interested to Search the Internet for answers. If you make a mistake in judgment... you are in deep doo doo.

[Ray Eklund]

Go to EverestGear.com. Base Camp with the professionals in a Tent, first.

Before having a Trailer we Tent Camped. The North Face tent (may be the VE25). It was bought in Fort Collins, Colorado in the 1970's for $99.00. I have had this tent for over 50 years. Still have it and survived every kind of weather. I survived... the tent does not care and is indifferent.

Travel trailers are also indifferent to your comfort in the Winter Months.

Our Rocky Mountain Fall/Spring Trailer Camping Motto: "Drive in Dry, Leave Wet."

The less surface area, the better the possible outcome Winter Camping. The current Oliver Elite II is so much more energy efficient than any Airstream... I say this from experience... I am not an Airstream sales person nor for Oliver trailers. I do not promote anyone buying an Airstream, an Oliver or a North Face Tent for family winter camping experiences.

Want to discover what works for Winter Camping? Go to a RV Trailer Park in February... drive through. Avoid those RV's with skirting, huge propane tanks and ice cycle's parked out front for casual biking around Laramie, Wyoming at -6F. (Not icicle, but Icycle Bikes for Winter Biking.)

Check out the Ski Resorts for full timing Winter Employees. Slowly drive by the Trailer. Is it still occupied? At Keystone there was one small SOB Trailer in the Parking Lot. It was buried under snow. Obviously the owner decided 'frost on his pumpkin' was not saving himself any money, or comforts.

Take lessons from the Dumb and Dumber... I say. I look around. There are Trailer Owners that believe Off the Grid Camping... is Insane with an Airstream. Imagine that. Yet... winter camping... a possibility?

Eating too much Fruit Cake is not a remedy for believing Winter Camping is Fun, Enjoyable, Possible and does not Cost More than a Room with a fireplace.

Go Ice Fishing on Flathead Lake, Somers / Kalispell / Lakeside, Montana. See any trailers on the Lake? Nope. Fishing shacks with Wood Burning stoves. You still need to clear off the thin ice forming to drop your fishing line into the water a foot to two feet below the ice.

We used an Axe. The hole begins wide and narrows as you get down to the water below the ice. I now can go to Costco and get Salmon 12 months a year. I still have two Axes. Anyone need one?

Anyone camping right now in the northern latitudes posting? Winter is not even here yet... but we sure were Rained Out in north central New Mexico and south central Colorado a week ago. Absolutely miserable with the high humidity and low temperatures... but we held out... until the dirt/gravel roads DRIED UP so we could get the Hell Out of There. No Snow. Humidity is worse.

Hunters had their 35+ foot fifth wheels parked within the trees in New Mexico and Colorado for Bow Hunting. Rain, drizzle, humidity... hot diggity dog. Did see two sets of antlers leaving during Bow Hunting... these guys used Tents. They have hormones that we do not have... We waved from our Oliver when the sky cleared after Sunrise. Wiping dog feet was a workout as they like to go in and out, often.

No Airstreams used for hunting shelters. Our Oliver looked out of place, as well.

Winter had several months on the calendar to go.

At 8000+ feet... calendars mean nothing in October for rain, drizzle or snow. We had rain, drizzle, hail and snow in mid August 2016 north of DuBois, Wyoming with the Wyoming Adventure. A majority of Members voted to LEAVE. I put my pants on afterwards, believing there was a Death among us and then, after saying OK and Left. Met them at the Park in DuBois and headed to Jackson, Wyoming. The SUMMER CAPITAL of Yellowstone Park, of course. Most continued the Adventure. They just might want to try some Winter Camping... without us, of course.

[Ray Eklund]

Tucson, Arizona is wonderful at a RV Park in the Winter. Been there and did the Tucson Rock Show every February for a a decade or more.

When Fall Arrives... the RV Parks begin to empty in northern States... those with tires and axles still attached, of course.

When Spring arrives, the RV Parks in the South empty to return to the northern States.

Much like Birds... with small brains... do the same without a calendar or even a map.

Neanderthals lived in caverns in Europe. They just did what Neanderthals did during any time of the year... nothing different. Look what happened to my Relatives. Nobody knocking on my door to stay warm, any time of the year.

I am inquiring WHICH Human Bean of All Human Beans, has the secret to survive in an Airstream in Winter Conditions, lets say in San Diego,CA, versus, lets say Fargo, ND. Cost of Propane. Skirting. Bales of straw. How do you do it and WHY?

The Deserts of Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada have millions of acres available for FREE. There you can have flowing fresh water... at will. Yaaa Hoooo. Pull out lawn chairs and enjoy life. Sit outside in your underwear, as I do. Ahhhh. Refreshing.

Where are these one, or three or thousands of Airstream and SOB Owners choosing to camp in the Snow and Ice? Send pictures from Fargo, or Devils Tower, or the Great Plains of Nebraska? How long did you stay? Did Frost Bite you first, or did you leave on your own and not in an ambulance?

We want to know. Provide photographs of smiling faces, able to wave... not a parked trailer in an open field in Florida... but Wyoming or Colorado, New Years Day within the last ten years.

[MikeandCarol]

We have camped in temperatures from 10-25 degrees many times. We don’t seek out cold weather camping, but when it happens I never worry about how my Oliver will do. We go west to NM, AZ, sometimes UT in January and February. Sometimes the weather is nice, sometimes it gets pretty cold. We also visit our son and family in Durango in the winter with similar temperatures. Our Oliver is just a solid performer in all kinds of weather.

[Ray Eklund]

Hello,

I hope this message finds you well and staying safe. I was just reading your post about winter living, and was hoping you would be good enough to add any thoughts you may have in the thread titled. "https://www.airforums.com/forums/f462/winter-full-timing-how-to-66531.html"

You're obviously much more knowledgeable than I am, and I could use all the help I can get now as I'm in a difficult situation.

They would be most welcome and appreciated.

********
"Winter Seasonal Camping with an Airstream", in most of the USA, is expensive... Propane Use and Humidity.

Before choosing a location... do a search of the Temperature High to Low Ranges and Humidity at THAT LOCATION.

November to March in most locations will be very uncomfortable, unless you have a huge Propane Tank leased. This is for the interior. Water, Grey and Black Water Tanks... had better be empty. Water lines had better be empty.

April to October are doable. After Sunset the temperatures are known for all areas on the Internet. Like my photographs... New Mexico... snowed one evening but 'burned off' quickly at Sunrise.

You will NOT FIND ANY SKIERS in the High Country living full time or visiting over the short term, within a Travel Trailer. If you do, we saw in the Parking Lot at Keystone, Colorado. It was buried in SNOW and vacant.

We have not test our 2019 Oiver Elite II which is comparable to a 23 Foot Airstream. It is compact and possibly a better choice to experiment with. Try the Oliver Forum on the Internet. (olivertraveltrailers.com) Forums.

With short daylight hours and long dark evenings... your mental attitude will change... to the worse. Also... Tow Vehicle Engine OIL needs to be proper for the area and temperatures. Unless you have a Engine Block Heater and can plug into 120v outlet. You may have Tow Vehicle and Travel Trailer disasters.

Winter in Tucson, Arizona in mid February is doable. But... a cold snap... occurs at the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show... freezing up trailers water systems.

Anything is possible... Propane is the important ingredient. Then go down a check list of what could fail... then decide how much discomfort you can handle. Myself... Winter in Laramie, Wyoming in an Apartment going to school... is not too bad when you have six foot+ drifts as insulation, and the tenets on the second floor... would dig us out. Yep... not a Travel Trailer.

Go to a Trailer Park... and talk to those individuals. They know.

Would I Winter Season Full Time... never.
Would I Winter Season for the Experience... never.

Airstream inside an insulated RV Garage with a Big Ceiling Furnace... now you are talking. If you can afford the Utility Costs.

[Ray Eklund]

If you see Frost on the inside of your travel trailer's window...

If the Moisture inside the travel trailer is dripping from the ceiling and windows, while trying to heat the interior...

If your sweater feels like a Sponge... and your bed Sweats more than yourself... TOO LATE FOR YOU... get out of there fast.

An Oliver Elite I or II might work out if you have plenty of Propane and Power to the Furnace Fan and Venting Moisture from the interior. They are well insulated. So well, you could have a chance. I have not tried it. Do not plan on it, either.

I suspect the real reason whey the American Indians vacated Mesa Verde and other Cliff Dwellings was not the story made up by Archaeologists. If you had a Cold Summer and Freezing Winters for several years... they were smart enough to understand to move to lower elevations and build there.

Take their advice. Move with the Seasons. Away from Heat in the Summer. And away from the Cold in the Winter. Or stay home and be comfortable... with all the comforts of a Travel Trailer in a Showroom. Not outside.

Think like a Pueblo Indian without technology. Before Air Conditioning... the Desert South West Cities... would not be more than a temporary campsite. Read some books about how the Native Americans and Pioneers managed. Do the research at home and then watch some weather reports where you are NOT camping.