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Old 02-02-2006, 04:49 PM   #1
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Shock n' (axle) question

One more step in the axle replace process (which has been the worst part of the entire renovation...)

The two drawings below show my plan - I will weld the shock bracket to the pivot arm out near the wheel. But....


1 - there is about 5 inches of travel in the shock - do I set it up so that the shock is at 2.5 inches of travel at rest? How do I figure how much more the trailer will "settle" with the extra 1500 pounds still to go on my renovation?

2 - the bracket will almost touch on both sides (the hub and the frame). Is that ok?

3 - how far out towards the end of the arm do I put the bracket? Further out will equal more travel, in towards the pivot point will reduce the travel. Does anyone have any practical experience here?

4 - am I way off base here?

as always, thanks for all the help!!
Carlos Ferguson
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:53 PM   #2
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Carlos, unless you have a very early version of the DuraTorque axle, it should be mounted horizontally, not vertically. Mounting horizontally will give you more room to place the shock, and the travel will be more than ample in that position.
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Carlos, unless you have a very early version of the DuraTorque axle, it should be mounted horizontally, not vertically. Mounting horizontally will give you more room to place the shock, and the travel will be more than ample in that position.
I have a '62 and the shock is where it was originally in my drawing. I tried to figure how to make it horizontal but it didn't work in any plan I could come up with - the swing arm is towards the rear (the wheel trails the axle front to back).

How would I mount it horizontally?

Thanks,
Carlos
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:21 PM   #4
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Ahhh

You DO have one of the early ones. Our 63 has the shocks mounted as you have shown in your drawing. I will try to find you a photo or diagram of horizontal-mounted shocks.
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:41 PM   #5
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Terry, Like this ???

Pattersontoo's Argosy.
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:30 PM   #6
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Have you seen this thread? It has pictures of the original vertical shock tower.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...eck-12143.html?
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Have you seen this thread? It has pictures of the original vertical shock tower.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...eck-12143.html?

Yes, this is how mine was set up - and I guess the best way to re-set it up when I weld on this plate. I just wonder how far out on that arm the base of the shock should attach... and do I weld the bracket so that the shock is in the middle of its extension at rest?
Carlos
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:11 PM   #8
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Carlos,

Don't mount the bracket so it is in the middle. The correct method is to set the bracket so that the shock does not bottom-out either at the top or bottom of the axle travel.

Dexter has unloaded and full load dimensions at their website. You can look up your axle and find out the total travel, then either draw it out on paper or make construction paper templates to determine the best bracket location.

If you need help let me know.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
Yes, this is how mine was set up - and I guess the best way to re-set it up when I weld on this plate. I just wonder how far out on that arm the base of the shock should attach... and do I weld the bracket so that the shock is in the middle of its extension at rest?
Carlos
The method I used takes some jockeying to get the best position.
I don't believe you will find correct position in any drawing due to variations over the years.
Put the shocks on the trailer then bolt up the axle, it will then become apparent where they should go. Mark the position with a felt tip pen.
Note: Check for full travel (straight in line) without binding or hitting the frame.
Remove the axle and weld on the new mount.
It took me a while to find the best location. I used a floor jack to move the swing arm for checking.
Good Luck.
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
One more step in the axle replace process (which has been the worst part of the entire renovation...)

The two drawings below show my plan - I will weld the shock bracket to the pivot arm out near the wheel. But....


1 - there is about 5 inches of travel in the shock - do I set it up so that the shock is at 2.5 inches of travel at rest? How do I figure how much more the trailer will "settle" with the extra 1500 pounds still to go on my renovation?
Carlos,
One of two ways you can go. Put the bracket where the old one was, or in a similar location. The travel of the torsion arm is quite little, it being so short. Or, find a suitable new location if the old style bracket won't fit. I suggest putting it as far back on the torsion arm as possible, close to the spindle's center line to get the most amount of shock travel and precise damping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
2 - the bracket will almost touch on both sides (the hub and the frame). Is that ok?
1/4in clearance is good enough. A little less is ok if you observe the travel. Stuff does move and flex while you're towing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
3 - how far out towards the end of the arm do I put the bracket? Further out will equal more travel, in towards the pivot point will reduce the travel. Does anyone have any practical experience here?
Put it as far back as it is practical. The ideal spot is right above the center of the spindle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
4 - am I way off base here?

as always, thanks for all the help!!
Carlos Ferguson
You're lucky, the vertical shock actually does a little bit of something while you drive. The newer horizontal shock is all but useless,( in my humble opinion) it only moves an inch at best when the trailer is loaded and the torsion arm is near vertical. Add to this the loose valving of the factory shock, and you have a system who's function is quite questionable, in my mind, at least. I tried my TradeWind without shocks for a while, and could not tell a difference in towing, or in the way that stuff moved around in the trailer. I eventually put new ones back on, for sake of originality. With raised eyebrows....
The shocks on my Overlander ( vertical) are 90% extended with the suspension unloaded.
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Carlos,
The shocks on my Overlander ( vertical) are 90% extended with the suspension unloaded.

I think this is what I am looking for... I suppose there is a lot more "up" action than down action then?

Carlos
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:28 AM   #12
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Carlos - My '66 has vertical shocks too. The vertical shocks have another benefit. They are far easier to obtain than horizontal ones.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcferguson
I think this is what I am looking for... I suppose there is a lot more "up" action than down action then?

Carlos
Due to the self damping tendency of the rubber torsion axle system, it is unlikely that the unsprung tire/wheel assembly will overshoot it's unloaded natural resting place by a large margin, should the trailer ever go over a huge bump and become semi-airborne.
Therefore, it is my opinion that a 10% safety travel provision is adequate. My wife and the cat think so, too.

A trailer that has a conventional solid axle system would probably have to be configured differently, as the sheer weight of a solid axle with brakes and tires, suspended from heavy leaf springs, will definitely have more momentum when accelerated quickly ( such as when going over bumps) as the torsion system has.
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
Carlos - My '66 has vertical shocks too. The vertical shocks have another benefit. They are far easier to obtain than horizontal ones.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
A word of caution here. I went shopping for vertical shocks, only to find out that modern shocks are all gas charged, with very few exceptions which would not fit the requirements for my Airstream, physically.
My observations are that the bracketry that Airstream provides, both on the axle and on the frame, is not very strong. It bends fairly easy. A shock with a fair amount of gas-pre-load, like Bilstein, for example, might be too extreme for this bracketry, especially when travelling on bad roads. I believe that the rubber torsion suspension works best if the shock that is supposed to control excess movement is a mere passive dampner, as opposed to having a gas charge that is essentially trying to lift the trailer slightly by the shock brackets at all times. Too much compression damping, for my understanding, would work against the rubber's ability to provide a smooth and soft ride. Some gas shocks do not have a lot of pre-load, which should be ok for this application.
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:34 PM   #15
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Guess I am living in the 60's. No gas back then. Got it at NAPA. Coulda found it else where. Measured old shock and got the replacement.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:37 PM   #16
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I'm with you for both of those last posts, Uwe. I bought the gabriel shocks after reading an earlier post of yours.

I was thinking about the dynamics of the axle and agree that unless I get airborne, probably the 10 - 20% travel I will leave for downward motion will be fine. I guess I will see...

Carlos
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
Guess I am living in the 60's. No gas back then. Got it at NAPA. Coulda found it else where. Measured old shock and got the replacement.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
I tried Napa here in CA. No luck, all teh shocks of the right length and mounting configuration were supposedly gas charged. Maybe the guy just did not want to hassle with my request.
I went and bought the Airstream type shocks from Andy. those seem to fit fine, and are nice and sloppy.
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:27 PM   #18
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I did a face to face.

Took the old shock to the counter to see what kinda guy I was dealing with. You know, is he working part time cause he is still in high school auto shop? Or does he have the kinda experience I am looking for?

Anyway, the (2nd) counter guy looked them over and found a set. If you want the part numbers I'll get them.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 02-03-2006, 02:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
I did a face to face.

Took the old shock to the counter to see what kinda guy I was dealing with. You know, is he working part time cause he is still in high school auto shop? Or does he have the kinda experience I am looking for?

Anyway, the (2nd) counter guy looked them over and found a set. If you want the part numbers I'll get them.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
Thank you, but I finally got the suspension, shock and brake obsession behind me, thank God!
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Old 02-04-2006, 11:00 AM   #20
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Looks Good

Carlos,
I saw your sketch and went and looked at my installation on my 64 Tradewind.
The PICs below appear to accurately represent your sketch. They show the curbside wheel. My DuraTorque axil with 12" brakes was replaced and installed by Andy at Inland a couple of years ago. It looks like the original shock mount was used. Hope this helps with your installation.
Ed
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