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perryg114 · 02-25-2012, 09:24 AM

The Kevlar was used to test different shielding concepts for protection from orbital debris. Even a grain of sand can do a lot of damage when it is moving at 7-18km/s. If it is bigger than a marble the space station will have a hole it in. We are going to keep most of it for other projects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipple_shield

Perry

P.S. Lets get back to leaks.

TG Twinkie · 02-25-2012, 06:20 PM

If I were to do a shell off floor replacement. I would certainly install drains. I would also consider installing aluminum flashing around the perimeter of the floor. A minimum of 12" wide and folded over the edge. One could even fold a lip up on the inside edge of the flashing to prevent any water from getting to the wood in most areas. Obviously there couldn't be a lip across the doorway but 95% of it could have the lip. There could be drains in this flashing as well. Any thoughts?

perryg114 · 02-25-2012, 06:40 PM

Well the C-channel is a lip or gutter if you wish. If you can make it water tight and put drains in it then the water has a place to go other than the floor. How do you propose to keep water from getting under the flashing?

I think each section of the C-channel should be isolated from the ones next to it so you can tell where a leak is coming from and limit the damage to that one area. This is like the compartments on a ship or submarine.

Perry

TG Twinkie · 02-25-2012, 07:02 PM

As I said, you could bend an "L" shaped lip up on the inside edge, it would only have to be 1/4" at the most. With the outside edge folded over or even wrapped over the edge of the plywood. With drains on the "C" channel and drains in the flashing the water couldn't get to the wood.

Air-Texas · 02-25-2012, 07:04 PM

Has anyone sprayed the inside of the skins with the LineX bed liner stuff?

perryg114 · 02-25-2012, 08:07 PM

The bed liner would be a good choice but I am not sure what sort of surface prep it would need. Also there maybe a weight issue. One of the guys on here coated the interior with some form of ceramic coating and then covered that with spray foam. I think it is best to use something flexible so it won't crack. My trailer has white putty/caulk stuff sealing all the joints but it has no tensile strength and it just cracks. I think spray foam would be a bad idea with out some form of water proof membrane between it and skin. Otherwise water will get trapped and cause corrosion.

Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air-Texas

Has anyone sprayed the inside of the skins with the LineX bed liner stuff?

Foiled Again · 02-26-2012, 03:09 AM

Many other RV's - and many boats use foam filled sealed inner and outer hulls. It's expensive to build. Boats which leak can sink and kill you - so sealing their inner and outer hulls is necessary.

For an RV, I don't see the type of insulation as the problem - whether it's fiberglass, foam or whatever. When my unit was taken apart to fix the floor, the insulation was soaked - and even if the floor had been absolutely impervious the inner and outer walls would have corroded from the inside out DUE to the trapped water.

some kind of weep hole just makes sense.

Paula

perryg114 · 02-26-2012, 07:50 AM

Yeah but the foam traps the water so it can't drain out. The auto industry uses this type of expanding foam and where it is used the body will rust out first.

Perry

Gene · 02-26-2012, 11:36 AM

I was looking for removable adhesive with a wide temperature range and good tack yesterday without much success. I did find removable and fair tack, but not all that good temp range. This is to glue the floor to the subfloor and still be able to remove it without damaging it.

This was at Lowe's and the employee I was talking to suggested Velcro at the edges. Velcro comes in versions with glue backing that sticks through temperature extremes. It adds about 1/16" height and that is acceptable since the flooring I bought is 3/16". Any more than that would be a problem because of clearance under cabinet doors.

So, I can install a floor with loose lay vinyl planks, leaver a quarter inch space all around, Velcro the edges and spray some adhesive at each joint to make sure the joints don't open (I hope). I can lift the floor with suction cups and check the condition of the subfloor periodically. The planks will slide out from beneath the trim with some difficulty because the Velcro will not want to give them up, but it should be doable. I'll use exterior polyurethane on the subfloor (2 coats) and try to get some under the inner skin to seal it better, but I realize I have to remove the skin to do a better job. And once the temps go up, I have to seal everything I can outside. I have a can of Acryl-R ready and waiting. If I were more industrious I would tear out the carpet and do that floor too, but I am not.

I looked at the awning brackets yesterday. They are certainly not sealed well. The leak I found last week was directly under the brackets next to the door. For that I should look for some thin rubber to place under it as a seal or maybe better, Form-a-Gasket. Then I can use Acryl-R around the outside of the bracket and on the screws. I never expect water to go straight down because there are plenty of ways it can go, but maybe this time it did. I am sure the insulation is wet and I am sure many Airstreams have lots of mold between the skins. I think installing small vents at the top and bottom of the inner skin between each rib is the way to solve some of the moisture problem. Another thing to think about.

Gene

ZEB · 02-26-2012, 12:08 PM

Floor Rot....Really? This is my first message and my question was trying to decide between a 2012 27FB or 28 International Airstream but now after reading the comments regarding leaks & floor rot, I'm not sure. We were sold on the Air Stream because of durability & quality not floor rot & interior sweating walls.

mrflegel · 02-26-2012, 12:08 PM

Hi all:
So to sum up what everyone has said there is no one solution. Just to make the floor as rot resistant as possiable. Here is my question. Would the upper vent run across the top of the unit inside the skins, T-ed at evey rib to the fantastic fan outlets and be exhausted with the inside air. Or would a seperate fan work better to pull air from the bottom or the top to keep the skins vented to the outside. A C channel drain would help with the condensation between the skin at the bottom. The plastic plywood and or the al skined sign board sounds like it would be the best floor choice. I love to fix things one time but cost can come into play.
Still looking for my project, something in the 25 to 28 foot range to get started on. Within 250 miles of Birmingham Al. Anyone out there have any suggestions.
thanks
Mike

Gene · 02-26-2012, 12:43 PM

Bebe, the Airstreams have problems due to cost cutting and lack of imagination, but other trailers have the same problems too. And they are made of 2 x 2's and other shoddy construction for the most part. All RV's require constant maintenance and this will help reduce problems. RV industry standards are lower than those of the auto industry.

The people that post here are more likely to be ones with problems, so the percent of Airstream owners with problems may be less than it seems.

You might loo for a used one to save some money too. Airstreams have some advantages over other RV's, but none are perfect.

Don't give up yet. You will never find a thread on any forum where all the posts are "my ___ is great and I have no problems".

Gene

Protagonist · 02-27-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrflegel

Or would a seperate fan work better to pull air from the bottom or the top to keep the skins vented to the outside.

If you're looking to circulate air in the interstitial spaces between the inner and outer skins using a separate vent, you might want to look at the Nicro solar-powered vent: Nicro Day / Night Plus Solar Vent or another, similar model. Mushroom vents of this type are frequently used to vent boat cabins to control moisture. This particular model includes an insect screen to help keep bugs from nesting in your walls.

perryg114 · 02-27-2012, 01:44 PM

If the air has an inlet and exit from the trailer, natural convection will circulate the air. If you had fresh air vents on the lower outside of the skin for air to come in and vents on the roof for air to get out then you would have a ventilated system much the way the air comes in the soffits on a house and leaves through cable or roof vents. The problem here is all this occurs outside the insulation layer on a house and it would occur through the insulation on an airstream. This would reduce the effectiveness of the insulation. So to do it right, you would need a third skin say ½” off the outer skin and air would circulate through this layer and not the insulation.

I think it practical to keep the leaks and condensate off the floor and don't worry about what is between the skins. The skins and insulation hold up well dispite being exposed to water. Things dry out pretty quick when the sun comes out. A dehumidifyer is probably a good idea to keep moisture in check. As others have said, most of the moisture comes from humans.

Perry

mrflegel · 02-27-2012, 06:23 PM

Perry
You are right it would be Over Kill to try to vent each rib top and bottom.
A non rot floor would be the better investment of time and effort. We are not talking that much water in any one place. There is a new thread posted on the forum, nylaboard is the product name. Sounds pricy but promising
Floor replacement material.
Still looking for one to work on.
Mike

dkottum · 02-27-2012, 07:37 PM

Some thoughts on Nyloboard.

Wouldn't you still have to prevent leaks so that water does not find its way between the subfloor and floor covering? Mold would still grow. The floor covering will lift with water intrusion, and the covering would deteriorate.

Plywood can "breathe" some moisture out. Nyloboard could not.

Plywood provides a bit of insulation, is nyloboard a solid product? Could it condense vapor because of that in damp weather?

Some plastics have a high thermal expansion rate, plywood seems similar to the aluminum fastened to it. Would it expand/contract and loosen shell fastenings?

Sooner or later I have regretted switching to plastic products over the years. I have to wonder if this would work out in the long run.

doug k

perryg114 · 02-28-2012, 06:30 AM

Nyloboard would not have to be covered. It sheds water. It is plastic. The biggest problem that I can see would be that it is probably not as strong as wood. They give a flextural strength in their literature but there is nothing to compare it to. Also it is probably heavier than wood. So how much more does it weigh than wood and how much extra support ribs are you going to have to have underneath it. 1/2" thick is not very thick. Common composite deck boards that are twice that thick have to be supported about every 12 inches. Composite aluminum might also be a good choice which is going to be lighter and probably stiffer than plastic. It won't be cheap but nothing is on these restorations.

Perry

fmr.capt.evi · 02-28-2012, 07:28 AM

I realize that plywood is far from perfect, but one advantage is that it's easy to attach things to it with screws....and things usually remain secure. (And if it tends to loosen, a bigger screw is almost always an easy fix).

perryg114 · 02-29-2012, 04:46 PM

Ok well I think I am about ready to wet test my C-channel gutter/drain system. I put the final layer of Vulkem around everything. When I get a chance, I will get some food coloring and mix it with some water. I will put that in a bicycle water bottle and fill up the C-channel and see where the water goes. Between the battery boxes, instead of drilling a hole through the c-channel and the floor and steel plate I decided to drill a hole out the side of the c-channel and let the water drain down a large hole where wires come through the floor. I made some flashing to make sure the water did not go under the floor.

Perry

dkottum · 02-29-2012, 05:09 PM

You may also take a tip from brick wall construction and add cotton weep ropes every foot or so, and extend them out a bit. They will absorb moisture and wick it outside the trailer to dry. Quite effective.

doug k