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Old 09-13-2018, 03:22 PM   #1
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Anytown , California
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Post Sport 22 vs. F Cloud 20

I am looking to purchase an AS next summer. Have been doing some research and finally made it to a dealer to look around them. I am trying to decide between the Sport 22 and the Flying Cloud 20. Since I am planning to live out of it in winter, in the mountains, one of my main concerns is cold weather suitability. I know there are things that need to be done with either model. Right now I am leaning toward the Sport because it seems more insulated and durable.

***Which model is best for cold weather living?***

Please vote and follow up with why/recommendations.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:32 PM   #2
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I doubt there’s any difference in the insulation.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:29 PM   #3
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I doubt there’s any difference in the insulation.
Has to be, there is no A/C ductwork in the ceiling of the sport. Not sure if that is compensated for or not.
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #4
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Winter in an Airstream

I am a firm believer that Airstreams are 3 season trailers. We have a 2017 Int. Serenity 23D. Last November (2017) we spent a week at Cross Creek Campground just north of Columbus, Ohio. Weather took a nosedive on 2nd day and it was under 20 degrees for the rest of our week. Furnace worked great, but VERY thirsty for propane. (2 30lb tanks in 6 days) We filled fresh water tank (and removed hose) as they informed us they were turning off water to all sites. We used Bathhouse for showers and other business because I did not want to fight frozen dump valves. We had to be very careful with moisture buildup. We survived but I sure as heck would not want to spend an entire winter in subfreezing temps in an Airstream. CCCOOOLLLDDD walls. The freshwater did not freeze. Water Heater worked fine for dishwashing. On board water pump worked fine. There are other brands of travel trailers that are much better for cold weather. We will be spending 4 months at Land Yacht Harbor in Melbourne, Fl beginning 1 December, 2018. Cold? No thanks.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:22 PM   #5
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I am a firm believer that Airstreams are 3 season trailers. We have a 2017 Int. Serenity 23D. Last November (2017) we spent a week at Cross Creek Campground just north of Columbus, Ohio. Weather took a nosedive on 2nd day and it was under 20 degrees for the rest of our week. Furnace worked great, but VERY thirsty for propane. (2 30lb tanks in 6 days) We filled fresh water tank (and removed hose) as they informed us they were turning off water to all sites. We used Bathhouse for showers and other business because I did not want to fight frozen dump valves. We had to be very careful with moisture buildup. We survived but I sure as heck would not want to spend an entire winter in subfreezing temps in an Airstream. CCCOOOLLLDDD walls. The freshwater did not freeze. Water Heater worked fine for dishwashing. On board water pump worked fine. There are other brands of travel trailers that are much better for cold weather. We will be spending 4 months at Land Yacht Harbor in Melbourne, Fl beginning 1 December, 2018. Cold? No thanks.
I figured I would need to do something to make it through the winter. I want to start with the better of the two choices as a START. Any thoughts between the two?
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:16 PM   #6
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If you look at them as the come factory stock, the 20 is more feature rich in many ways that favor the 20 over the 22 for long term living, especially if running the heat.

2 batteries
larger propane tanks
ducted heat pump as primary heat source for heating with electric when you have hookups.
propane oven option for cooking when you must cook indoors due to cold weather outside
More sophisticated electrical system overall
2 fantastic fans plus range hood plus bathroom vent fan for better moisture management
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
If you look at them as the come factory stock, the 20 is more feature rich in many ways that favor the 20 over the 22 for long term living, especially if running the heat.

2 batteries
larger propane tanks
ducted heat pump as primary heat source for heating with electric when you have hookups.
propane oven option for cooking when you must cook indoors due to cold weather outside
More sophisticated electrical system overall
2 fantastic fans plus range hood plus bathroom vent fan for better moisture management
I considered those listed items. The sport has ducted propane heat and also has a central mounted heat pump, not ducted. I plan on adding bathroom and cooking area vents for moisture control. I will be on electric service for the winter, battery not really an issue, but I am going to add a second one anyway.

I know the oven is a problem, forgot to speak with the dealer about that. Thank you.

I am more concerned with things that cannot reasonably be changed. For example, adding insulation or changing windows out because one model seals better. Or is one more likely to get frozen valves or tanks. I will be skirting it either way.

Thanks!
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:01 PM   #8
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That is not exactly the case. The sport has an AC with heat strip, but not a true heat pump. There is a difference.

If I had to choose one of these 2 models to live in long term it would be the 20. Just a nicer space. Certainly a better and easier to use kitchen.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
That is not exactly the case. The sport has an AC with heat strip, but not a true heat pump. There is a difference.

If I had to choose one of these 2 models to live in long term it would be the 20. Just a nicer space. Certainly a better and easier to use kitchen.
Hmmmm... I must have wrote that down wrong. Thank you.

I like the 20 kitchen better as well, do not like the seating/bed arrangement as much.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:45 PM   #10
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Sounds like you have your heart set on an AS. No argument there, we all have. I do not know anything about the differences between the two units you are considering. I also have not camped in my AS in sub-freezing weather and hope not to. However, should you want to compare AS to what is considered to be a true four season TT, I suggest looking at Outdoors RV Mfg. out of Oregon. When I was TT shopping, I was fortunate in that my AS dealer is 6 miles from my house and a dealer that carried Outdoors RV, 8 miles. DW and I looked at them 3 times and went over them thoroughly. I was impressed and it was the only SOB I considered. Just a thought.
Best of luck with your research.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:51 AM   #11
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Sounds like you have your heart set on an AS. No argument there, we all have. I do not know anything about the differences between the two units you are considering. I also have not camped in my AS in sub-freezing weather and hope not to. However, should you want to compare AS to what is considered to be a true four season TT, I suggest looking at Outdoors RV Mfg. out of Oregon. When I was TT shopping, I was fortunate in that my AS dealer is 6 miles from my house and a dealer that carried Outdoors RV, 8 miles. DW and I looked at them 3 times and went over them thoroughly. I was impressed and it was the only SOB I considered. Just a thought.
Best of luck with your research.
Looking them up now!
Thank you.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:43 AM   #12
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The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)


The 20 is more deluxe, has more interior storage, and has a gas range/oven.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:31 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by NWGetaways View Post
The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)


The 20 is more deluxe, has more interior storage, and has a gas range/oven.
I read the brochures and looked around them. I want to know what differences CANNOT be changed that would sway purchase to one or the other. I can cut a hole or wire a new accessory. I cannot make it have more exterior insulation or a different plumbing system.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:59 AM   #14
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Hi

A *lot* depends on just where the winter is happening. If you are down in San Diego, that's a very different climate than up in the Sierras. If snow is happening, any Airstream is a challenge to live in. I'm going to assume we're talking about an area where it's sub freezing for many weeks in the winter ....

The skin of all these trailers is very thin that makes heating *expensive* when it's cold out. Hauling in new propane tanks once or twice a week .... not for me. The windows are not set up for real cold. Moisture from people / cooking in the trailer condenses out on the windows big time. Mopping them off each morning (and maybe each evening) becomes part of the drill. That's done by opening them and working from the outside ..... did I mention heat costs ....

Moisture also condenses on the walls behind the cabinets. That damp can lead to all sorts of nonsense like mold and maybe rot. Keeping cabinet areas dry is possible. You unload them and blow hot air into them on a regular basis .... back to heating costs ....

Next up you have the water systems. They are not designed for constant sub freezing temperatures. Simple answer there is to drain all water, put in anti-freeze and not use any water in the trailer all winter. ..... hmmm .... that does not sound convenient. It's not just a matter of getting water into the trailer. You also need to get it out. Things like dump stations are generally closed in the winter.

Depending on the amount of cold and the amount of wind, the heating system in the trailer may or may not be up to the task. Heat pumps stop working as you get below 40F outside. The furnace in the trailer is all you have when it's really cold. Waking up to 50F each morning may or may not be your idea of fun ....

Airstreams are hardly unique in having these "issues". RV's are rarely designed for really cold weather living. If that is a major requirement, better to shop for one of the few that is targeted at this kind of thing. Fewer windows, thicker walls, and smaller internal dimensions are normally the result. Since they are a small part of the market, simply finding one outside Alaska or places like that can be a challenge.

Lots to think on ....

Bob
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:22 AM   #15
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I have a 2018 22 FB Sport the microwave is also convection and an air fryer. Does a great job. Do all AS have heated grey/black water tanks? Mine are heated.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:23 AM   #16
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I have a 2018 22 FB Sport the microwave is also convection and an air fryer. Does a great job. Do all AS have heated grey/black water tanks? Mine are heated.
That's good info!
Thank you
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:27 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by NWGetaways
The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)



Quote:
Originally Posted by overthatway View Post
I read the brochures and looked around them. I want to know what differences CANNOT be changed that would sway purchase to one or the other. I can cut a hole or wire a new accessory. I cannot make it have more exterior insulation or a different plumbing system.
Actually, he DID mention those things which cannot be readily-changed. You CANNOT do much to change the heavy FC20 weight vx the 22Sport....or the bath size, or the bed's comfort.

I have some experience with BOTH these models, and here's my take:

You said you will be hooked up with elect. all winter. That means you don't have to burn much propane because you can use portable electric heaters! One in the bath and one in the main cabin and you may never need your furnace at all.
You might be considering a winter-stay.... but these things are made for TRAVEL, and the 22Sport is much easier to tow because it weighs so much less and doesn't require wide-towing-mirrors. When winter is over, you'll appreciate the easier-towing 22Sport. (You might also consider your state's inspection requirements. Some states require annual inspections of trailers weighing more than 4500 lbs. The 22Sport is exempt where I live.
The 22Sport will easily, safely, simply tow on an ordinary ball hitch. We've been doing it for over 3 years and it greatly simplifies all aspects of hitching-up/towing/etc. The FC20 really needs a wt-dist hitch.
The FC20 has a ridiculous Emerg. Escape situation... with the Exit placed exactly where you are most likely to have a fire... the galley!...where you have to climb over a kitchen-counter and try to squeeze thru that smaller window!
If you are going to stay in it for an entire winter, you might wish to consider the entertainment situation. The Television can be watched from the sofa in a Sport... not so in the FC.
The Sport has a much better bed when you replace the sorry mattresses that AS puts in both models.
The insulation in both are the same, but you might consider installing heating-mats on all 3 tanks regardless of which model you settle on.
Lastly, the 22Sport is much less expensive, which will help finance any changes you DO plan to undertake.
Hope this helps.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
Originally Posted by NWGetaways
The 22 Sport has:
A bigger bed
A bigger bath
Nearly as much counter space (take a tape measure and compare)
3-way fridge
Easier towing (lighter weight, narrower)





Actually, he DID mention those things which cannot be readily-changed. You CANNOT do much to change the heavy FC20 weight vx the 22Sport.
I have some experience with BOTH these models, and here's my take:

You said you will be hooked up with elect. all winter. That means you don't have to burn much propane because you can use portable electric heaters! One in the bath and one in the main cabin and you may never need your furnace at all.
You might be considering a winter-stay.... but these things are made for TRAVEL, and the 22Sport is much easier to tow because it weighs so much less and doesn't require wide-towing-mirrors. When winter is over, you'll appreciate the easier-towing 22Sport. (You might also consider your state's inspection requirements. Some states require annual inspections of trailers weighing more than 4500 lbs. The 22Sport is exempt where I live.
The 22Sport will easily, safely, simply tow on an ordinary ball hitch. We've been doing it for over 3 years and it greatly simplifies all aspects of hitching-up/towing/etc. The FC20 really needs a wt-dist hitch.
The FC20 has a ridiculous Emerg. Escape situation... with the Exit placed exactly where you are most likely to have a fire... the galley!
If you are going to stay in it for an entire winter, you might wish to consider the entertainment situation. The Television can be watched from the sofa in a Sport... not so in the FC.
The Sport has a much better bed when you replace the sorry mattresses that AS puts in both models.
The insulation in both are the same, but you might consider installing heating-mats on all 3 tanks regardless of which model you settle on.
That's what I needed.
Thank you.
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:46 AM   #19
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Please follow up next spring with what you learn from your experience. It will help others immeasurably.

Have fun. And buy flannel sheets. We love ours any time it’s below 60 outside!
D2
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:58 PM   #20
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We owned a 2006 19’ Bambi for 9 years and used it occasionally in the winter. If operating on battery power the stock propane heater works great but the electric fan is a power hog so your battery will only support 1 night before needing recharging. We pilufchased a small electric heater with a built in thermostat and powered it with a Honda 2000 generator and that combination worked great. If you have electric power you will have no problem keeping warm in the 20’ unit.

We sold the 2006 this spring and purchased the 20’ Flying Cloud you are considering in June of this year. We too were considering the 22’ sport but decided on the 20’ FC instead and are we ever glad we did. The layout on the 20’ FC fab is perfect. So much counter space in the kitchen, the bathroom is superior and the bed is in the front by itself. The tanks have electric heaters and the built in duck work is a nice option. The Windows on the 20’ are make by Airstream and are superior to the windows on the 22 Sport.

When we moved 3 years ago our 19’ Bambi served as home from Oct to May for our 85 lb Labrador and tabby cat. The electric heater kept the Airstream warm without a problemeven when the outside temp was in the teens.

My advice is buy the 20’FC. You’ll be glad you did and never look back!
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