Decision Crisis

[torobi36]

Hey all,
I'm having a bit of trouble here. I'm looking to move to Park City Utah (popular ski destination). I have a dog and a cat which makes it extra hard to find affordable living, as most places are either way too pricey, or don't allow pets. Which brought me here.

I'd love an Airstream, and I really want to live full time in one to: one, save money, two, have something of my own for once (always rented). My uncle, who lives there, is pressuring me to rent. I keep telling him it was a waste of money, and that it would cost me at least $2200 just to move in, not counting all the extra fees for utilities to get set up. That's a decent chunk of down payment on an RV loan. I'm tired of wasting my money on rent!I have moved every year since I turned 18 and I have wasted so much money in just deposits. He keeps saying that he will "help" me with rent and I'd be earning the money by doing things/chores for him and his wife (like house sitting, watching their dog, etc). I hate it because it's NEVER a good idea to get into a situation where you can't afford to support yourself, and I don't want to feel like I owe him. (He's also very narcissistic, and nothing comes without strings with that side of the family.) He's just not seeing my side of things. I don't need help supporting myself, I need help finding a situation I can afford in an expensive ski town.

The other thing is that I don't have a truck that can tow an Airstream, so I'd need his help if I wanted to move it around (and I would have to, one park only does monthly from nov-april, and the other only allows you to stay up to 6 months). I could see about getting it delivered at first (to my first RV park) and then he wouldn't have much of a choice but to help later on. Or I can always make friends with some people who have towing trucks.

I just feel like I'm being pressured to do something that's not in my best interest, and wanted to weigh in with some neutral parties. I'm stubborn enough to go ahead with buying an Airstream, I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision.

[CRH]

Airstreams ain't cheap. Living in a RV in subfreezing weather is difficult.....If you can't afford an apartment, perhaps you should look at a mobile home set up permanently in a park.

[torobi36]

I can afford an apartment if the prices weren't inflated like they are in Park City. I'm in $1200/month apartment right now. The highest price I would go for an Airstream is $50,000, with a 15 yr loan at 4.5% that's ~$390/month. Pretty affordable if you ask me.

[Bill M.]

Park City is too cold for an Airstream in the winter. It is not cheap to find a place with hookups to live in one. You might still have an issue with the pets. Plus they might freeze. I think rent is probably still going to be the better option.

[markdoane]

I would be very careful about the rental thing. Best to follow your own path.
Help out your uncle, but don't be dependent on him.

[pt.reyesfan]

Originally Posted by torobi36

Hey all,

I'm having a bit of trouble here. I'm looking to move to Park City Utah (popular ski destination). I have a dog and a cat which makes it extra hard to find affordable living, as most places are either way too pricey, or don't allow pets. Which brought me here.



I'd love an Airstream, and I really want to live full time in one to: one, save money, two, have something of my own for once (always rented). My uncle, who lives there, is pressuring me to rent. I keep telling him it was a waste of money, and that it would cost me at least $2200 just to move in, not counting all the extra fees for utilities to get set up. That's a decent chunk of down payment on an RV loan. I'm tired of wasting my money on rent!I have moved every year since I turned 18 and I have wasted so much money in just deposits. He keeps saying that he will "help" me with rent and I'd be earning the money by doing things/chores for him and his wife (like house sitting, watching their dog, etc). I hate it because it's NEVER a good idea to get into a situation where you can't afford to support yourself, and I don't want to feel like I owe him. (He's also very narcissistic, and nothing comes without strings with that side of the family.) He's just not seeing my side of things. I don't need help supporting myself, I need help finding a situation I can afford in an expensive ski town.



The other thing is that I don't have a truck that can tow an Airstream, so I'd need his help if I wanted to move it around (and I would have to, one park only does monthly from nov-april, and the other only allows you to stay up to 6 months). I could see about getting it delivered at first (to my first RV park) and then he wouldn't have much of a choice but to help later on. Or I can always make friends with some people who have towing trucks.



I just feel like I'm being pressured to do something that's not in my best interest, and wanted to weigh in with some neutral parties. I'm stubborn enough to go ahead with buying an Airstream, I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision.

Winter temps in Park City are too cold for an Airstream. Look at Arctic Fox trailers.

[CRH]

I wouldn't want a 15 year mortgage on a house much less a loan on an RV.

[torobi36]

Originally Posted by CRH

I wouldn't want a 15 year mortgage on a house much less a loan on an RV.

You're just a ray of sunshine.

[Gamehawkers]

If you can qualify for $45,000 loan an Arctic Fox 29L might work but remember if something breaks and if you have no heat what are you going to do for the 3 weeks it takes to get it fixed?

[torobi36]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Park City is too cold for an Airstream in the winter. It is not cheap to find a place with hookups to live in one. You might still have an issue with the pets. Plus they might freeze. I think rent is probably still going to be the better option.

I've talked with a few dealers and the insulation is really good on the newer ones (2000 and up). He said the only extra thing I would need would be an RV skirt, which I knew about anyways, to keep the tanks from freezing.

The RV park I'm looking at for summer is $500/ month (plus the ~$390 still makes my cost of living below 1K) with the all the necessary hookups. The one for winter is $575. They both are pet friendly. I'm looking to get solar too so I can keep at least one heater going, plus they have heated cat beds and I bet I can get a heated dog bed too.

Also I'm trying to get a job at the animal clinic and their sister pet resort and they said I can bring my dog to work with me.

[Gamehawkers]

I have a 2016 Classic airstream and a 2018 Arctic Fox . I highly doubt you can make an airstream work through a park city winter. Way too cold for the airstream because it has single pane windows and very little insulation. The Arctic Fox might work. Ask yourself can I live full time with a cat and a dog in this small a space? Only you can answer it

[CRH]

Originally Posted by torobi36

You're just a ray of sunshine.

I am a realist

[torobi36]

Originally Posted by Gamehawkers

I have a 2016 Classic airstream and a 2018 Arctic Fox . I highly doubt you can make an airstream work through a park city winter. Way too cold for the airstream because it has single pane windows and very little insulation. The Arctic Fox might work. Ask yourself can I live full time with a cat and a dog in this small a space? Only you can answer it

Ok, but there are tons of tricks to keep the heat in by covering the windows, adding skirting, and like I said before, the insulation is better than older airstreams. I'm not super worried about making it in the winter. I can cope.
Have you done any winter camping in your airstream?

And I have asked myself that question and the answer is yes. I can live with my dog and cat in a small space.

[majorairhead]

That's some cold butt lows there, I'd reconsider full time rv unless I was really prepped for it. I mean, it could be done, maybe wrap the base with straw bales, have heat tape on every water hose outside, have heated water tap, heated sewer lines, etc. etc. Then there's the condensation issue to deal with.

The thought of a power outage when it's 12 degrees, snowing, and windy as all get out is really scary.

Climate Park City - Utah °F
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun
Average high in °F: 35 37 46 55 65 75
Average low in °F: 9 12 19 25 32 40

Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Average high in °F: 83 81 73 59 44 35
Average low in °F: 47 45 37 27 17 11

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by torobi36

Ok, but there are tons of tricks to keep the heat in by covering the windows, adding skirting, and like I said before, the insulation is better than older airstreams. I'm not super worried about making it in the winter. I can cope.

Have you done any winter camping in your airstream?



And I have asked myself that question and the answer is yes. I can live with my dog and cat in a small space.

Hi and welcome. [emoji3]

You may not like the rest of this reply.

An Airstream is not suited for what you're describing. Airstream will tell you themselves it's not meant for living in full time and it's especially not good in cold temps. A skirt won't solve the myriad problems its design presents for 4-season living.

Given your "ray of sunshine" response earlier, you may be looking for folks to confirm your hopes rather than actually asking for help. It's more helpful (in my opinion) to deal with the reality of your suggestion than to pretend the odds are in your favor here.

I can't really comment on the familial aspects of your post, but while not in a dictionary sense of the word impossible - an Airstream for that purpose is just not a good idea.

Even having an intentional 4-season trailer of a different brand poses some challenges. Will the RV park provide water and sewer during winter months? Will they charge you for electricity (likely if a semi-permanent resident)? What other expenses will you have? Taxes and insurance on the trailer for sure - even if not on the road - and more.

I'm confident you can live in a small space with your pets. I just don't think an Airstream is the right "small space" for your situation.

Good luck whatever you choose!

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by torobi36

Ok, but there are tons of tricks to keep the heat in by covering the windows, adding skirting, and like I said before, the insulation is better than older airstreams. I'm not super worried about making it in the winter. I can cope.
Have you done any winter camping in your airstream?

And I have asked myself that question and the answer is yes. I can live with my dog and cat in a small space.

You have FAITH that newer Airstreams are better insulated than older ones. I OWN a newer Airstream. Single pane glass and very thin walls and Not better. A really well insulated one is a vintage unit that has had "the full monte" done by a real perfectionist who has put 2 layers of Prodex between the outer and inner skins, and has sealed every seam skylight and pipe access point, then made insulated window curtains.

I survived 10 winters in Virginia, near the ocean. January and February were miserable and that with temperatures usually between 20 and 35 f. This year I am in Florida.

You think people here are raining on your parade - or worse. We were ALL newbies once. The advice may feel harsh, but it IS well meant. Point: optimism is good, until you are $30K in the hole with no good way out. There are EASY and Inexpensive ways to test the water first. Check out rallies in your area, and contact members of WBCCI and this forum and meet them personally.. ask what their rude awakenings were. Buy or rent a stationary SOB - square old box/some other brand USED RV for a few months and live in it. If you love it after living in it long enough to get real about the costs, unload it for your dream trailer.

My d'oh moment? In winter only the propane furnace keeps the unit really comfortable, and can go thru 2 30 lb. Bottles in 2 days. Any RV PARK with winter campers? Has a 250 lb. Tank on every one. More and more parks make you pay for electricity so space heaters are equally costly and give spotty heat. Airstream and solar... very little roof space, and a week of cloudy weather... over hyped semi-solution.

How can you tell that a salesman is lying? Answer: his lips are moving.

LAND increases in value, dwellings all need constant maintenance $$$$ to retain any value.

We want HAPPY fellow Airstreamers who still love their silver sausages after the real world has whacked the stardust out of their eyes.

[Lily&Me]

You sound young, without a job yet in Park City, where perhaps you want to go because the skiing is good?, and wanting to fulfill a dream to own and live in an Airstream trailer...in an area where winter temps are going to make that very difficult to do successfully.

Aside from payment on your trailer and lot rent, you will likely also have to pay utilities, and staying reasonably warm in those winter temps will not be easy nor cheap.

If something breaks and/or freezes up in your trailer, there is no landlord to take care of this, you will have to finance it yourself...and survive while you wait for repair. You could be dead in the water for days or weeks, and then what?

We get threads here periodically from young folks who have a dream of living in an Airstream....and we tell them what we think, like it or not.

It’s a big leap for one without the experience, knowledge base and life skills to take this on...which is where it sounds like you may be.

You don’t really want to crash and burn in Park City, Utah. If you really want an Airstream, start with it as a recreational vehicle...learn the ropes, get some experience under your belt and think about doing it full time in a more hospitable climate.

Good luck,

Maggie

[crazylev]

torobi36

Have you figured in insurance, propane, equipment repair or replace, maintainance, cost of site, etc. over time it adds up. Don’t ask how I know

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by torobi36

I've talked with a few dealers and the insulation is really good on the newer ones (2000 and up). He said the only extra thing I would need would be an RV skirt, which I knew about anyways, to keep the tanks from freezing.
(snip...)

He's conning you.

The product that Airstream used to insulate its trailers may be a "good" product, but there is only a small space for it, and the cold passes right through the inner and outer metal skins, and the metal ribs that are riveted in between those skins.

So the end result of the insulation in modern airstreams cannot be honestly described as "really good". Airstreams may be better than some brands, but are is definitely worse than others, and much worse than a conventional house.

I've stayed in my Airstream when temps were getting into the mid- and upper-twenties at night. That was OK but I wouldn't want to go much colder.

[GMFL]

Will not work for you. First a 50000.00 Airstream that is newer will be hard to find. Second you will burn at least 30lbs of propane a week at (on the low side) 28.00 x4 would add 112.00 a month to your tab. Also Airstream’s are aluminum outer shell with aluminum wall studs/ribs and aluminum inner skin. No matter how much insulation you have the outer touching the ribs touching the inner skin conducts heat and cold VERY well. I have camped many times in below freezing temps in my Airstream. That said I would not nor could I live long term in those conditions. With out your own way to move the Airstream you are putting yourself in a position of dependence.
I understand the dream. And would NEVER want to discourage you from living it.
Get yourself a tow vehicle and then a nice used Airstream that you can live in and move somewhere other than Park City.