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Old 01-01-2021, 03:12 PM   #101
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The sheet vinyl floor used in some Airstreams would buckle in cold climates, so I pulled it up and replaced it with a nicer floor. The OEM floor was installed incorrectly by laying rolls out in the naked interior and then putting in walls and furniture on top that was screwed down. Temperature changes to the captured flooring would cause it to buckle. Flooring is supposed to be installed without being captured and trim is used to cover gaps next to walls, etc. Once I removed the thinest vinyl flooring ever manufactured (it was actually thinner than industry standards), I found water stains on the subfloor, but no rot.

Around the perimeter, some black stuff had been quickly applied to presumably water seal. It was done badly. The water was coming from the seam just back of the door on a FB. The supports for the awning are sometimes installed on top of an exterior skin seam, making it difficult to seal. I used two types of sealant (if one filed, hopefully the other would work in this bad location) under and around the support and filled the screw holes as well. I did this on the front and rear awning supports. I used "loose lay" flooring and so I could lift it up and check if there were more leaks every year. There were none.

If I could figure this out and fix it, why can't Airstream? Probably ten years ago I exchanged emails with Airstream about the subfloor and rot. It didn't help. At one point OSB was used as a subfloor in some models and since OSB deteriorates once it gets wet and subfloor in trailers can get wet, they failed. The repairs must have cost the company plenty. These were one of many leaks. It took me three years to stop the leaks. Apparently I can do a better job of applying sealant than the employees can.

Glad to hear they have changed the subfloor to a composite. They had decades and much informed complaints to act and they didn't. But did they go to composite as an improvement or because they got it cheaper? I would classify OSB or particleboard as a "composite", so what kind of composite and how effective is it? Are they still installing awning supports on exterior skin seams? Humans are not all that good at planning ahead, so changes often come after there has been a mess. The mess has to get big and smelly enough to cause action.

The service center at Airstream does high quality work and did some things on our trailer for free. When I asked the people there why they have to fix so many factory mistakes, they did not answer, but their facial expression said a lot. Airstream has always seemed like a strange company with good and bad. It acted like a family owned enterprise with some family trying to improve things and other family pursuing as much profit as they could squeeze out without regard to future reputation. The executive structure of Thor and Airstream has had some similar issues—some family and the original group who created Thor were inbred. Adding to it all, some product seems to have few or no issues and other, scores of problems. If we were to do it all over again, given the many miles of travel from Alaska to Key West we did, there are few trailers that tow so well. Quality issues would make me buy, maybe, a used one where problems had been fixed (an alternative is a newer brand that looks like an Airstream except everything is white, white, white—also expensive, maybe better and I cannot remember the brand name?) . It was cool to have an Airstream. Our present RV is ugly, but well made, half the price, and has much more room though a whole foot longer.

It was often said on this Forum years ago that Airstream is small company that cannot afford lots of planning, quality control, tests, etc. Thor is not a small company and problems common to all RV's could have been looked at and changes could have happened—in the short run this costs, in the long run, it should reduce them. Profit has always been the prime motivator at Thor. There is little interest in innovation, but lots on cost cutting.

To anyone wanting to buy a trailer, each brand has its quirks, some are much better or worse than others, prices are inflated, no one brand does it all, and you have to investigate a lot to make sure you will not be disappointed. I did investigate and though concerned by the many threads in 2007 on this Forum telling about the same problems then and many years before, as there are now, we went ahead. Others have done the same thing and either regretted it or loved it. Some of us lucked out and some did not. Ours seemed to have been built at 4:30 pm Friday just after the workers got a pay cut. Some people got the one built at 4:50, so we were relatively fortunate (I do know trailers are not built in a few minutes—no stranger to the factory or company executives).

Discourse on this Forum has changed over the years. Seems a bit nastier now than it used to be. There is very much less humor than there used to be. Many of the more endearing members have long disappeared. Most members' time here is not much longer than an NFL player's career. I hope the OP gets what he wants and adjusts to what owning an Airstream means.
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:22 PM   #102
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Maybe, just maybe....... the negative tone is enhanced or maybe even encouraged somewhat by people who no longer even own Airstreams lurking on this site waiting for negative posts so they too can chime in and throw gas on already burning fires. Just wondering what skin in the game do these folks have?
Just sayin....
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Old 01-01-2021, 05:46 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcc75 View Post
Maybe, just maybe....... the negative tone is enhanced or maybe even encouraged somewhat by people who no longer even own Airstreams lurking on this site waiting for negative posts so they too can chime in and throw gas on already burning fires. Just wondering what skin in the game do these folks have?
Just sayin....
Truth.
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Old 01-01-2021, 06:11 PM   #104
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Well, right now is the best “seller’s market” there has been maybe ever. So, why don’t all you guys with these horrible, badly designed and built trailers sell them?

You’ll get top dollar and can then buy that perfect SOB RV. Then, you’ll be happy and, like some other former owners, you can stop by here regularly and trash the.product, the company and us poor simpletons who still like them.
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Old 01-01-2021, 07:33 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Discourse on this Forum has changed over the years. Seems a bit nastier now than it used to be. There is very much less humor than there used to be.
Looks like n2916s is offering a little of that missing humor .

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Old 01-01-2021, 10:40 PM   #106
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HeyAmkost,

It sounds like a primary 12VDC ground issue.

Are your brakes working? Lights flicker when wires wiggled tapped with screwdriver handle ( careful, don’t short).. what about the hitch?

Let us hear..
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:33 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The connector is for a wire splice to attach an external thermostatic controller to the furnace. Wire spices are in common use everywhere. There is no design flaw in that. Airstream uses the integrated CCC2 and heat pump controller in place of a separate furnace thermostat. That also is a nice feature and an engineering best practice.

If there is any fault here it is quality assurance and control in wiring installation.
Brian- You know the difference between a good wire connection and a cheap one.Sounds like this poster described a cheap one, wiggle and it might work lol
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:46 AM   #108
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I do, and Airstream has been using top quality splice connectors for some time now, definitely since before 2015. A 2019 model will have excellent wire connectors. Installation can be hit or miss.
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:47 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Cole View Post
Gene-Exactly.Just the untreated wood used for floors forever by Airstream, just shows the lack of quality concern, for decades, by the "Worlds most expensive travel trailer builder" lol

The connection now with Thor, reminds me of what happened to Harley Davidson, when AMF took control from 1979-1981.

Tremendous drop in quality on the way, wait for it.....


You do realize Thor was established to buy Airstream about 40 years ago and saved them from bankruptcy and possibly liquidation?
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:56 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
The sheet vinyl floor used in some Airstreams would buckle in cold climates, so I pulled it up and replaced it with a nicer floor. The OEM floor was installed incorrectly by laying rolls out in the naked interior and then putting in walls and furniture on top that was screwed down. Temperature changes to the captured flooring would cause it to buckle. Flooring is supposed to be installed without being captured and trim is used to cover gaps next to walls, etc. Once I removed the thinest vinyl flooring ever manufactured (it was actually thinner than industry standards), I found water stains on the subfloor, but no rot.

Around the perimeter, some black stuff had been quickly applied to presumably water seal. It was done badly. The water was coming from the seam just back of the door on a FB. The supports for the awning are sometimes installed on top of an exterior skin seam, making it difficult to seal. I used two types of sealant (if one filed, hopefully the other would work in this bad location) under and around the support and filled the screw holes as well. I did this on the front and rear awning supports. I used "loose lay" flooring and so I could lift it up and check if there were more leaks every year. There were none.

If I could figure this out and fix it, why can't Airstream? Probably ten years ago I exchanged emails with Airstream about the subfloor and rot. It didn't help. At one point OSB was used as a subfloor in some models and since OSB deteriorates once it gets wet and subfloor in trailers can get wet, they failed. The repairs must have cost the company plenty. These were one of many leaks. It took me three years to stop the leaks. Apparently I can do a better job of applying sealant than the employees can.

Glad to hear they have changed the subfloor to a composite. They had decades and much informed complaints to act and they didn't. But did they go to composite as an improvement or because they got it cheaper? I would classify OSB or particleboard as a "composite", so what kind of composite and how effective is it? Are they still installing awning supports on exterior skin seams? Humans are not all that good at planning ahead, so changes often come after there has been a mess. The mess has to get big and smelly enough to cause action.

The service center at Airstream does high quality work and did some things on our trailer for free. When I asked the people there why they have to fix so many factory mistakes, they did not answer, but their facial expression said a lot. Airstream has always seemed like a strange company with good and bad. It acted like a family owned enterprise with some family trying to improve things and other family pursuing as much profit as they could squeeze out without regard to future reputation. The executive structure of Thor and Airstream has had some similar issues—some family and the original group who created Thor were inbred. Adding to it all, some product seems to have few or no issues and other, scores of problems. If we were to do it all over again, given the many miles of travel from Alaska to Key West we did, there are few trailers that tow so well. Quality issues would make me buy, maybe, a used one where problems had been fixed (an alternative is a newer brand that looks like an Airstream except everything is white, white, white—also expensive, maybe better and I cannot remember the brand name?) . It was cool to have an Airstream. Our present RV is ugly, but well made, half the price, and has much more room though a whole foot longer.

It was often said on this Forum years ago that Airstream is small company that cannot afford lots of planning, quality control, tests, etc. Thor is not a small company and problems common to all RV's could have been looked at and changes could have happened—in the short run this costs, in the long run, it should reduce them. Profit has always been the prime motivator at Thor. There is little interest in innovation, but lots on cost cutting.

To anyone wanting to buy a trailer, each brand has its quirks, some are much better or worse than others, prices are inflated, no one brand does it all, and you have to investigate a lot to make sure you will not be disappointed. I did investigate and though concerned by the many threads in 2007 on this Forum telling about the same problems then and many years before, as there are now, we went ahead. Others have done the same thing and either regretted it or loved it. Some of us lucked out and some did not. Ours seemed to have been built at 4:30 pm Friday just after the workers got a pay cut. Some people got the one built at 4:50, so we were relatively fortunate (I do know trailers are not built in a few minutes—no stranger to the factory or company executives).

Discourse on this Forum has changed over the years. Seems a bit nastier now than it used to be. There is very much less humor than there used to be. Many of the more endearing members have long disappeared. Most members' time here is not much longer than an NFL player's career. I hope the OP gets what he wants and adjusts to what owning an Airstream means.
Gene-Exactly.Just the untreated wood used for floors forever by Airstream, just shows the lack of quality concern, for decades, by the "Worlds most expensive travel trailer builder" lol
The connection now with Thor, reminds me of what happened to Harley Davidson, when AMF took control from 1969-1981.
Tremendous drop in quality on the way, wait for it.....
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:29 PM   #111
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It seems that the quality issue is passed down from the parent company...THOR
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:31 PM   #112
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Thor did buy Airstream after it had been owned by Beatrice Foods for roughly a decade. After Wally died, his estate decided to sell to Beatrice. I guess the execs at Beatrice wanted to be a conglomerate, a corporate form that goes in and out of favor every twenty years or so. Beatrice showed it did not know what to do with Airstream and neglected the company.

The guys who started Thor saw an opportunity and took it. At first it looked good and Thor did help the company get functioning again. But after a while Thor found they could produce a trailer that had an iconic reputation for style and at the same time cheapen the trailer to increase profits. Following the words of P.T. Barnum "there's a sucker born every minute" (something probably true even if he never said it), Thor has sold a lot of poorly built Airstreams to thousands of people ever since. They also have sold better ones since what comes off the line varies considerably from trailer to trailer. They found it was cheaper to set up a distribution network that featured many really bad dealers. At the same time, Thor used Airstream to gather money to buy or create a number other product lines following the same general policies—cut costs mercilessly, pay workers poorly, buy more companies. It has worked for Thor, not so much for their customers.

I guess having low expectations helps. Certainly problems solvers have fun here because there are so many to solve. Attacking posters who have problems or those who agree, certainly makes some people feel bigger and better, even though they are simply projecting. It takes a very small person to avoid the points made by someone and look for some little thing to attack them, often attacking for something that has no relevance to the original discussion. Perhaps the Forum should require all members to show their Airstream titles and pledge to only praise Airstream.

At first, back in 2007, the Forum was useful to me to learn things and then later to share knowledge with others. Few members were so sensitive about the trailers we all paid too much for. Blind approval for the company was rare then. Later I developed lots of friendships and that became more important than fixing things (after all, I fixed them). Many of those people and others who were acquaintances have gone by now. The OP raised serious concerns. He needed support and guidance, but at least one fanboy attacked him (looked like beating someone up and then calling them a "whiner"). For me, I now have a trailer that never has leaked even though the manufacturer doesn't put it under a shower that doesn't prove much of anything except if the windows are open.

Like the entire country, the Forum has changed and not for the best. It is difficult to regulate these things and good luck to the mods.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:36 PM   #113
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I think it is a lot tougher to get quality labor and to "establish" a dealer network than we think it is. I doubt if it is just a question of cost. As in, you could pay a dealer a lot more and he would still steal the battery money. All in all it might not really matter if the problem is Thor squeezing the company for profits or what the exact issue is. We want the trailers, we buy the trailers, we do or pay for some remedial work on the trailers. Everything seems to be going well for the company right now. Maybe this is just as good as it gets for a relatively small company making niche product in a highly competitive market that is subject to fashion change. Maybe some people ought to just order their trailer from Timeless Trailer and tell them how neat you want the wiring and how upset you will be if something goes wrong.
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Old 01-02-2021, 04:33 PM   #114
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Truth Matters. Integrity endures.

I feel for the OP, whose only fault, it seems, was believing the marketing hype and (undeserved?) brand reputation of Airstream. The guy and his wife fully expected to go full time in a brand new Airstream, what could go wrong?

Now it's unquestionably great that we have so many helpful members here who are willing and able to troubleshoot and solve this or that problem (after problem after problem...) -- it's a testament to the better angels of humanity -- but that does little to assuage the shocking disappointment and profound feeling of betrayal and distress on behalf of the new purchaser of what he assumed was a top-quality luxury item.

"If only he had known beforehand..." is the problem because Thor continues to market AS on the stretching-of-the-truth-beyond-all-recognition that it is a product of a certain level of quality, and continues to reap profits on the basis of that lie, without doing enough to improve the quality to fulfill the brand promise, nor altering it's marketing to manage customer expectations so they are not so, so disappointed on delivery.

The reason I care is precisely because I happen to like the Airstream brand and wish to see it not fail; because I can see the potential in the brand and market and am saddened whenever I hear a new customer is so sorely cheated out of what should be a joyous and celebratory experience because of this intolerable, lazy, management/enginering/desgin/labor failure of a mendacious company's faithlessness to it's customers and itself. Shame on them.

But to the OP, take heart, what you have is fixable, but it will take time and patience and relentless nagging on your part, after which you will finally have a trailer that you will come eventually to enjoy, perhaps even grow fond of, not so much for it as for the adventures and experiences (much, much better ones) it opens up to you.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:53 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amkost92 View Post
I hate posting something negative about Airstream, but I have had a fairly horrible experience with the company and product.
. . .
As the OP of this thread, could you please update us on what the company is doing to help you out? Thanks.

Happy New Year!
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Old 01-03-2021, 05:23 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by skyguyscott View Post
I feel for the OP, whose only fault, it seems, was believing the marketing hype and (undeserved?) brand reputation of Airstream. The guy and his wife fully expected to go full time in a brand new Airstream, what could go wrong?

Now it's unquestionably great that we have so many helpful members here who are willing and able to troubleshoot and solve this or that problem (after problem after problem...) -- it's a testament to the better angels of humanity -- but that does little to assuage the shocking disappointment and profound feeling of betrayal and distress on behalf of the new purchaser of what he assumed was a top-quality luxury item.

"If only he had known beforehand..." is the problem because Thor continues to market AS on the stretching-of-the-truth-beyond-all-recognition that it is a product of a certain level of quality, and continues to reap profits on the basis of that lie, without doing enough to improve the quality to fulfill the brand promise, nor altering it's marketing to manage customer expectations so they are not so, so disappointed on delivery.

The reason I care is precisely because I happen to like the Airstream brand and wish to see it not fail; because I can see the potential in the brand and market and am saddened whenever I hear a new customer is so sorely cheated out of what should be a joyous and celebratory experience because of this intolerable, lazy, management/enginering/desgin/labor failure of a mendacious company's faithlessness to it's customers and itself. Shame on them.

But to the OP, take heart, what you have is fixable, but it will take time and patience and relentless nagging on your part, after which you will finally have a trailer that you will come eventually to enjoy, perhaps even grow fond of, not so much for it as for the adventures and experiences (much, much better ones) it opens up to you.
Very true, and well written.Facts are facts.Heres the problem for the non mechanic/ new owner, who expects
the basic systems to work.And, if they dont, take it to the dealer, where it's fixed.
The difference with these trailers, is the person, like the OP, is living in it.So, they thought they were buying the best, but learned a hard lesson.
Agreed, that probably selling it to the next person, who's in the same boat most likely, may be the OP's best move.
But, in all honesty, for anyone who's not mechanically inclined, to attempt to live in a northern tier winter, in ANY MAKE OR YEAR OF RV, is a tough road to run on.
Systems fail, and backups must be in place and ready to go.
Backup power ( gasoline generators)and backup heat generation ability( portable electric/ propane), are imperative.The temps drop very fast in these aluminum tubes, when systems fail.It doesn't matter who built them, the end result is the same.
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Old 01-03-2021, 06:16 AM   #117
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Whew.. The vast majority of us really like our airstreams. We’ve had three good ones. I read earlier where someone decided not to buy an AS because of the horrible quality they were reading about. I’d be downright depressed if we’d have missed out on our trips. Oh well, complain on..
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:37 AM   #118
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Going back to the original post. yes, there are things wrong with the trailer that ought not to be. Yes, the dealers did not do an adequate job of fixing.

But...from the start for whatever good reasons the OP seems to have put himself in an highly untenable position if anything went wrong with the delivery schedule for the trailer and for the possibility of something being wrong with the trailer. And I do not think hoping that the dealer will refund the trailer cost and all of his living expenses is very realistic either.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:44 AM   #119
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The right tool for the job

I feel bad for the OP. I have to say, however, he is in need of four season housing in a region of the country that sees real winters. A little research would have shown that an Airstream is not the right solution for him. All of the big, single pane windows and the all metal construction of the top half of the trailer are dead giveaways. The very things that make it a great RECREATIONAL vehicle make it a bad solution for him. Now the impact of a wonky furnace is greatly magnified by his situation.

I guess he should have bought a NASH. He would then live a blissful existence like Gene. 😂
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:49 AM   #120
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Whew.. The vast majority of us really like our airstreams. We’ve had three good ones. I read earlier where someone decided not to buy an AS because of the horrible quality they were reading about. I’d be downright depressed if we’d have missed out on our trips. Oh well, complain on..
Agree. We’re on our 2nd Airstream and love it. Haven’t had a problem with Airstream service either. I guess that makes me a “fanboy”��. All the people here at the rally seem to like their trailers, too. I guess there are a lot of fanboys here...
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