Another Tired TV Post - Towing an Classic - F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, Limited

[Rgentum]

A couple of years ago at an AS Rally in Bend, OR, I met a couple with a triple axle AS34 towed by a newer Ford 3.5 Eco. I was amazed. They told me they wintered in Palm Springs and summered in Bend and routinely drove their AS back and forth with their 3.5 Eco with no problems. I would not want to do that, but they are evidence that it can be done.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by Gmoore

I have a 2014 30' International Signature. My fresh water tank is always full when I travel. My wife and I, and two dogs have lots of stuff - the bed of my pickup is usually pretty full.
No idea what it weighs, but my 2012 F150 with 3.5 Ecoboost took us all over without a problem. My 2018 F150 with 3.5 Ecoboost does the same.
My advice is simple - travel with the truck you have, it'll handle your trailer. If you don't like it, then change, but not before. My guess is that you'll be happy with your Ecoboost.

Why would you advise someone to throw caution to the wind and just go with a combination that is obviously over Ford's guidance? Do you know something about the truck's capability that Ford does not? Even overloaded combinations tow without a problem 99+ percent of the time because they never encounter a situation where the combination can lose control. How do you know this person is willing to assume the same risks you have accepted?

[Bainbridge]

Jeff, we have a 30' Classic and tow it with our F150 3.5 Eco Ford. I bought the truck first and then six months unexpectedly later I bought the AS. Although it tows in great and we have had no problems both up hill and down, I watch carefully the down hill. If I had to do it over again, I would buy the F250. The 33' AS is just too big and heavy for the F150.

[Gleverett]

Had a 25'FC towed with the F150 3.5 Ecoboost max tow package for 5 years and over 35000 miles.of towing. Had the water temp overheat one time after towing all day at 90 degree temp and high elevation. Great vehicle knowing that I was almost maxed out on weight. Decided to buy a 30' Classic and did'nt feel the F150 was adequate so I replaced it with the F250 Diesel. Going from the 25' to a 33' AS is a considerable difference in weight/lenght and I personally would not recommend you tow it with the F150. Many folks on the Forum will say sure you can tow it but consider stopping it, weight of load, safety factors, and the TV
manufactures recommendations.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by JeffRadford

Hey folks -

Bought a 26 foot Airstream pre-covid and have towed just fine w my current Ford. I'm rated for a max tow of 10,700 lb. No problems towing at roughly 7,500 lb.

Currently considering moving into a Classic 33' Airstream Q1 this year, and that's sitting at a GCVR of 10,000 lbs. When I add the hitch weight of 1,175 lb - well you're starting to see the math conundrum. Start adding myself and additional payload and we're topping out my max tow and it's getting hairy.

I know a lot of folks are gonna say, go buy a 250, but my question is, does anyone have experience and can speak to tuning up an F150 3.5L, 6 cylinder like mine and what the improved towing capacity may be?

My options I'm seeing are this -

1. Tune - increase tow capacity.
2. Buy a used 250.
3. Buy a new F150 that's rated at 13,900 lb. max tow.

Curious to see what the thoughts are.

PS my 2019 FC is for sale if anyone's interested.

Thanks!

Been there done that and I don't recommend it.
I struggled with this as well being reluctant to give up my F-150 EB Platinum for a whole year before throwing in the towel after upgrading to a 30" Classic from a 28' International which is only 27' .
The 1/2 ton will get bullied by the 33' guaranteed and will be way underpowered for hill climbing .
We finally upgraded to an F-250 Powerstroke .
The difference is day and night.
If you don't have height issues with your garage door I would suggest the F-350 .

[Starlight Mike]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

I can pretty much summarize the next 50 responses for you.

You need a F250 at minimum for any trailer larger than 23 feet, though some may allow for larger than 25'. BTW, a F350 is better because it has heavier springs. Reasons are (1) with anything less (than a heavy duty truck) you'll probably kill yourself and family, plus anyone else on the road when you inevitably lose control and wreck, (2) stopping distance for the tow combination is shortest of all because the F250 is larger and heavier, (3) you'll get ticketed by the police and your insurance company won't cover you in an accident without a F250 and the larger trailer, (4) the diesel engine is also strongly recommended for its power and engine brake, (5) you can carry anything in the truck bed and not worry about payload, (6) best all you can say "When I tow I don't even know the trailer is there!"

Most likely the decision to move to a bigger truck will be driven by payload. I don't know the tongue weight of the 33 foot trailer, but add 200 lbs to whatever Airstream says loaded for camping.

Perfectly stated, don't read further

[BayouBiker]

It's cute but it is poorly stated and the conclusion is wrong. The Ultra Max Tow F-150 has a payload capacity north of 3000 lb. Payload is not the issue with that vehicle, the issue is tongue weight and the effects trailer inertia driving that weight have on the vehicle in emergency cornering.

[Acheron2010]

Be advised, not all "250's are alike. The sticker on my 2015 Silverado 2500 LTZ shows a GVWR of 9,800 lbs. 6.0 liter gas engine.

[Randonneur]

I am in almost the exact same position as the OP. I have a F-150 3.5 EB rated to 11,300 pounds towing a FC27 and just put down a deposit on a 2019 Classic 33FB. I thought about towing with the F-150, but the payload does concern me, so I looked at getting a ¾ ton. I went out and found something to test drive, a F-250 with the 6.2 liter gas engine. Its hp is actually not very different than the Ecoboost, and its towing capacity is just a bit higher, at 12,500, but it is rated at 9,900 gvwr, much more than a F-150’s 6,100-7,050. Of course, it weighs more, at 6,376, but that does allow over 3,500 pounds for that hitch tongue weight, etc.

Even though my F-150 is only five years old, and I liked it very much, it did not have the safety tech that the new truck has, including lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, etc. My old truck did not have the tow mirrors (why is that even possible with the max tow package?). I was pleasantly surprised at the ride quality as well. I was told to expect a much rougher ride and I did not find that to be the case. What it will be under load, we shall see, but it was very nice. I did also move from a Lariat to a Platinum, so there is that as well. The seats in the Platinum are like Barcaloungers (and I had NO idea that Ford had massage function available-Wowza!).

All that said, please be ready for nosebleed pricing. Two years ago I paid 36K for that Lariat (put 30K miles on it and got a trade in value of 27K on the new truck-Excellent!), but that 2020 F-250 Platinum msrp was 66K, and with 13K miles it was still priced at 61k. A similarly priced new truck would now be 78K on the CostcoAuto calculator. The dealer is a personal friend and actually showed me their cost for the F-250, they took a slight loss in selling it to me (they maybe made up for with the financing). I looked at CostcoAuto thinking that I might be able to get better financing if I bought new, since the price was so close to the msrp. I dropped that idea because (1) a similar one was so much more expensive than the used 2020, and (2) there are NO incentives, EVER, on ¾ ton trucks.

I should note that I am trading in the 27FC for the Classic, and if you have sales tax where you are then you probably want to do so as well, as then you will not pay tax on the whole amount of the Classic. For me, the Michigan sales tax of 6% on a trade-in of $65K saves me $3,900 in tax. And for those who wonder about residual value, I paid the same amount to purchase that FC two years ago, so it did not depreciate one dime.

So, nearly identical shift in trailers, and that was my decision. Hope that helps.

Eric

[brokeboater]

Originally Posted by Escape_Plan

About a week before Christmas, just out side Tucumcari, NM I saw what looked like a Jeep Grand Cherokee (or other similar sized SUV) and a 23' or 25' Airstream. Couldn't really tell what they were as they obviously rolled the 75 yards or so down the embankment from the I-40 East Bound lanes and landed (not wheels down) in the break down lane of the I-40 West bound lanes.

No idea of the cause of the accident but it somehow proves you need a 3/4 to 1 ton truck to haul a 23' to 25' Airstream?

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by brokeboater

No idea of the cause of the accident but it somehow proves you need a 3/4 to 1 ton truck to haul a 23' to 25' Airstream?

It's not proof, but it is an illustration of a valid point that vehicles close or over towing limits are more than twice as likely to have the kind of accident described. A Jeep Cherokee has a tongue limit of just over 700 lb. A 25' trailer will be near 1000 lb and a 23' trailer will be near 850 lb.

The question to anyone here is are okay with doubling your risk for a serious accident? At what point does the risk become unacceptable?

[brokeboater]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

it is an illustration of a valid point that vehicles close or over towing limits are more than twice as likely to have the kind of accident described. A Jeep Cherokee has a tongue limit of just over 700 lb. A 25' trailer will be near 1000 lb and a 23' trailer will be near 850 lb.

The cause of the accident isn't known. The actual tow vehicle and it's capacities isn't known. The actual trailer size and weights isn't known. It isn't an illustration of any valid point, it's a meaningless anecdote. With the information given it's just as likely everything was well within limits and the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by helwigc

I have reading different post from several members stating that if you do something wrong or you tow with a vehicle that is not rated for the load you are carrying that your insurance company won’t cover your claim. This is totally wrong, your insurance company must cover you for any wrong or stupid thing you do. That’s why you purchase insurance.
I have spent forty years handling and managing claims for three different insurance companies and know what I am talking about. The only way that they can deny a claim is if it excluded in the policy or you don’t live up to the policy terms. So if you want to know what is covered or not read your policy.

Show me where it says you are ok modifying a tow vehicle or any vehicle beyond its original specifications and still covered? You mean I could modify to race or hill climb or tow a semi trailer?? Not trying to be snarky...but seriously, please share any Official data that says an insurance carrier will cover you when you have modified your vehicle beyond it's mfg. limits?

Several years ago my son was driving our Expedition to CO from TX on a ski trip with 6 others from college. They were loaded down with skis and gear and wind flipped them. There was an injury and their insurance sued us. Our insurance guys and Fords insurance guys were all over the wreck details, to see if they were overloaded. (We had sued Ford for the Firestone tires as being part of the problem.) I was told by my insurance agent at the time, they were looking to see if the Expedition was overloaded/ out of "safety specs from mfg. It all got settled and we were not overloaded, but I was also told they could deny claim if we went beyond mfg safety recommendations. Now, you tell me because you were an agent that can't happen? Please share with me where you see that in any policy that they will pay no matter what?

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Rgentum

A couple of years ago at an AS Rally in Bend, OR, I met a couple with a triple axle AS34 towed by a newer Ford 3.5 Eco. I was amazed. They told me they wintered in Palm Springs and summered in Bend and routinely drove their AS back and forth with their 3.5 Eco with no problems. I would not want to do that, but they are evidence that it can be done.

Not surprised; I have been to several rally's also and see "some" folks pulling the larger AS's 27' to 33's sometimes, with their 1/2T's...it is what it is...some folks aren't concerned about it....some of us are.

I will just add...once you have towed a 27' or larger AS with a 3/4T or 1T Diesel with the auto-engine brake on, adaptive cruise, other lane and collision avoidance engaged at highway speeds without that "white knuckle" concern, you will understand...if you have not experienced...you will continue to try and justify the smaller TV as being adequate. Been there; done that!

[JeffRadford]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Not surprised; I have been to several rally's also and see "some" folks pulling the larger AS's 27' to 33's sometimes, with their 1/2T's...it is what it is...some folks aren't concerned about it....some of us are.

I will just add...once you have towed a 27' or larger AS with a 3/4T or 1T Diesel with the auto-engine brake on, adaptive cruise, other lane and collision avoidance engaged at highway speeds without that "white knuckle" concern, you will understand...if you have not experienced...you will continue to try and justify the smaller TV as being adequate. Been there; done that!

Thanks for the note. I think you nailed it. The new 150s can "handle" the load, and I'm trying to shoehorn reasons into staying there, but fur what I want to tow, conventional wisdom of many other is don't be crazy move into the 250. So that's the plan. Shipping for the used 250s as we speak.

[JeffRadford]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Been there done that and I don't recommend it.

I struggled with this as well being reluctant to give up my F-150 EB Platinum for a whole year before throwing in the towel after upgrading to a 30" Classic from a 28' International which is only 27' .

The 1/2 ton will get bullied by the 33' guaranteed and will be way underpowered for hill climbing .

We finally upgraded to an F-250 Powerstroke .

The difference is day and night.

If you don't have height issues with your garage door I would suggest the F-350 .

Thanks!

[JeffRadford]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Jeff- We loved our F150 EB 4x4 while towing our 25's...loved driving it around town, and parking, garage...all that stuff. But, payload sucked. We got the F250 6.7L because wife pushed me to...I had just taken a brand new F150 EB home with the new 10speed, for a night and was sold...but she kept telling me she wasn't comfortable and to go check out the new (2017 at the time) F250 diesel...I did and we ended up getting the F250 with our 28' FC; that was 3 years ago...I only have 2200lbs payload, but that works fine for us with 2 kayaks, and cargo I carry in bed...still have 300+lbs left. The F250 rides nice, does a great job towing with the engine brake while using cruise and tow haul mode. We have put 38K miles on the AS in almost 3 years, with no complaints for towing/hauling. I have 104K miles on the F250.

It dose not fit in my garage due to height of cab; it does cost more for fuel sometimes, and oil/fuel filter changes. It can be a pain to park in some lots. It requires more concentration to park our 28' vs our 25's due to the extra 12" wheel base on the 250. But, I feel good about our choice and safe when towing.

Seems to be the route I'm going. Thanks for the detailed opinion!

[Powerrunner]

We had an F150 2018, with max pay load King Ranch. Loved that truck, it was perfect for for 2018 25’ Flying Cloud. Never had pulling or sway issues, with the Fastway E2 WD Hitch. Then we upgraded to the 2019 International Serenity 30’. The tongue weight spec was 60 lbs heavier then my 25’, so I felt comfortable towing our new 30’. Once I took delivery of the 30’ AS, I notice that the tongue weight seemed so much heavier than my 25’, much heavier than the addition 60 lbs that AS spec’ed. The F150 for weekend trips pulled the heavier AS with no problem, my gas mileage was pulling the 25’ was around 15 miles per gallon, the 30’ was around 10 miles per gallon, so yes much heavier trailer.

Then we recently took a trip to Florida from Texas, pulling again was no problem, route 10 was a piece of cake. Then in Florida on route 75, with cross winds, I felt the trailer was controlling the lighter F150. Was not fun. Since my wife and I are planning longer trips when we retire in May, it was time to bite the bullet and and we ended up with an F250 Diesel. What a world of difference, I cant even tell I am pulling a trailer, let along a 30’. Not even sure I need to replace the Fastway E2 “round bar” WD/Sway control. However, given we are planning longer trips I did just order a Hensley, hope this is not an over kill. Just looking for safer travels.

[Escape_Plan]

Originally Posted by brokeboater

The cause of the accident isn't known. The actual tow vehicle and it's capacities isn't known. The actual trailer size and weights isn't known. It isn't an illustration of any valid point, it's a meaningless anecdote. With the information given it's just as likely everything was well within limits and the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

You're right, it doesn't prove anything, small SUV, large-ish trailer both of which were rolled into a ball. Maybe the driver fell asleep and crossed the rumble strips, over corrected and lost control. Maybe a gust of wind caught the driver off guard lost control. I could have stopped, taken some pictures and asked how they were loaded, etc., but the EMS team looked pretty busy and with at least one person under a yellow blanket, I felt it was probably inappropriate to stop an ask what happened in order to satisfy your desire for proof of what happened.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Powerrunner

We had an F150 2018, with max pay load King Ranch. Loved that truck, it was perfect for for 2018 25’ Flying Cloud. Never had pulling or sway issues, with the Fastway E2 WD Hitch. Then we upgraded to the 2019 International Serenity 30’. The tongue weight spec was 60 lbs heavier then my 25’, so I felt comfortable towing our new 30’. Once I took delivery of the 30’ AS, I notice that the tongue weight seemed so much heavier than my 25’, much heavier than the addition 60 lbs that AS spec’ed. The F150 for weekend trips pulled the heavier AS with no problem, my gas mileage was pulling the 25’ was around 15 miles per gallon, the 30’ was around 10 miles per gallon, so yes much heavier trailer.

Then we recently took a trip to Florida from Texas, pulling again was no problem, route 10 was a piece of cake. Then in Florida on route 75, with cross winds, I felt the trailer was controlling the lighter F150. Was not fun. Since my wife and I are planning longer trips when we retire in May, it was time to bite the bullet and and we ended up with an F250 Diesel. What a world of difference, I cant even tell I am pulling a trailer, let along a 30’. Not even sure I need to replace the Fastway E2 “round bar” WD/Sway control. However, given we are planning longer trips I did just order a Hensley, hope this is not an over kill. Just looking for safer travels.

Thanks for sharing...yes, the difference in towing the larger AS's with a 3/4-1T vs 1/2T can not be argued to some folks without having experienced it for themselves! Examples can help some folks make an informed decision; others will continue to argue.