Winterize, run anti-freeze and then use air to clean the pipes

[Di3s3l_Power]

First time winterizing my 2022 Bambi 22FB

Can I run RV anti-freeze through all the lines (fresh water tank, pump, tankless water heater, city connection, blank tank flush, outdoor shower) to push out the water and then use compressed air to push out the anti-freeze?

[Fungus]

No.

Never put antifreeze in the fresh water tank. You will taste it for a very long time.

I blow the lines with an air compressor set to 45 PSI, opening one faucet at a time. Go around the trailer a few times until there is no mist. Close it up. Antifreeze in the traps but nowhere else. Not sure how to winterize the tankless WH.

Our typical winters are not so bad. However, 2021 was 3*F here and well below zero for a week. No leaks. YMMV.

[waninae39]

Best to blow the lines with air.

Then just pour rv rated antifreeze into the sink and toilet traps.

Next spring,just run water and flush out the traps with fresh water

[Dennis C]

I agree with the comments above. Empty your fresh water tank, then use either compressed air or RV antifreeze to winterize the pipes. Don’t forget the water pump. There should be instructions on the procedure in your owner’s manual.

[Hermes]

Given how cold it gets up here, many of us do both, compressor and antifreeze.
Drain your fresh water tank and your grey and black tanks, then drain the hot water heater tank (for those who have one) and turn the bypass valve to close off the hot water tank from the rest of the system, then open the hot and cold low drain valves under the trailer and open the faucets to let the air into the system, then close all faucets, apply 50 psi of pressure and open each faucet, one at a time, first cold then hot, and don't forget to press the toilet pedal valve since it will crack if a tiny bit of water is left (don't ask why I know this), then open the low drain valves, one at a time to finish off the pressure draining.

For most places which don't get a deep freeze, this would be sufficient, but the water pump still needs to be taken care of.
So disconnect the intake to the water pump and connect a tube (or better install a winterizing check valve with a tube that stays in place) to suck pink antifreeze. Close all faucets, start the pump and open each faucet, one at a time, cold then hot, until a bit of pink liquid runs out, close the faucet and go to the next one, and don't forget the toilet pedal valve, the shower, the outdoor shower and the two low drain valves. Reposition the winterizing check valve to the normal position or reconnect the water intake pipe to the pump, and you are done. For my 28' trailer one gallon of antifreeze is enough, since the piping was pretty well empty before the antifreeze is pumped in (no antifreeze in the hot water tank or the fresh water tank!).

When de-winterizing, connect to city water and run fresh water to each faucet. It will run pink for a bit and then it will clear. Fill your fresh water tank and run the pump to do the same (to get the little antifreeze left in the pump).

When we travel in the winter (in the south), I carry my compressor and a gallon of antifreeze if ever I need to re-winterize if a cold spell hits us (depending on where we travel). In those cases, the use of antifreeze will be optional depending on how cold and how long the cold spell lasts (worst case, since we have wheels, we would move to warmer climes!).

[uncle_bob]

Hi

How cold will it get? How lucky do you feel?

Best approach:

0) Empty the black and gray tanks. Rinse out the black tank.

1) Empty the fresh water tank with the drain valves. Remove the shower heads.

2) Blow out / empty / drain the hot water tank per the instructions in the manual.

3) Fiddle the various valves to isolate the hot water tank from the system.

4) Drain the water lines with the low point drains. Then blow out the water lines with compressed air. This includes the flush line for the black water tank and the city water inlet.

5) Pump RV-antifreeze through each line ( hot / cold / faucets / showers / toilet ....). Pump until you have a steady stream of pink stuff. Then count to 10 while still pumping.

6) Check to make sure all the lines have been pumped ( don't forget those drain valves, they get pink stuff ...).

7) Drain the line from the fresh water tank into the water pump.

8) Now blow everything out with the compressor. This includes the low point drains, the city water inlet, and the black flush line. Yes, that's redundant. Better safe than sorry.

9) Empty anything that might have wandered into the black or grey tanks as part of the process.

10) Dump a pint or so of anti freeze into the black and into the gray tanks.

So what have you done?

All of the places that you reasonably can put antifreeze have it in them. This protects the pipes and faucets.

All of the extra antifreeze is blown out of the system. This makes roll out much easier in the spring. It does not impact the protection provided.

The hot water tank is empty and done up per the manufacturer's recommendations.

What are the alternatives?

1) Get a really big compressor that will provide a lot of pressure and a lot of flow both at the same time. Blow everything out until it's dry. This takes way more air that you might think.

2) Store in a heated facility and hope the heat doesn't fail.

3) Camp out in Baja for the winter

4) Forget about the final blow out. Just leave the antifreeze in the system. Wash out in the spring will take a bit longer.

5) Don't blow out the water lines ahead of the antifreeze. You will use a bit more ( cheap ) antifreeze. You also will pump a bit longer to make sure it's all in there.

Yes, there are a *lot* of other variations.

Bob

[CruizinDux]

I'm with hermes until the pink which i don't do.

i start with the FW tank drain, helps to have the spigit on the low side to get a full drain. i dsc the in/out of the pump and run till dry, catch with a towel, it's not much. i also connect the intake hose with a male adapter and a2' section of poly, then blow back any residual water to the fw tank. that also confirms the tank is empty.

then i blow the lines as above. after the faucets i go to the lp drains...raise nose,clear rear, lower nose, clear front. i've found that if i cap the lp drain, first hot, then cold, then with my finger, count of 10,release , repeat, repeat a bunch, that it clears the lines quicker. continue to repeat until no mist on the release.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Fun thing to do:

Blow out the lines until they seem to be dry.

Wait a day / drive around the block.

Try it again ... surprise, you blow out more water.

Yes, this assumes you are running a compressor that isn't hooked to 240V power or a Diesel engine. It's also based on a 30' Classic which is probably near worst case. Still, if there's a bit of water in there and it settles to just the wrong point .... not a good thing.

Bob

[Larry1492]

I blow down the lines, bypass the water heater and disconnect the suction from the water pump and pump antifreeze through everything. Then I antifreeze the traps. Probably overkill but along with one airstream I winterize the plumbing in 60 boats that way and in 25 years I have never freeze cracked anything.

[Fungus]

First...lowest temperature doesn't matter below freezing. Once the temp of the water in the pipes hits 32*F, it turns into the least dense and highest volume ice. Any lower temperature of that ice and its density increases slightly (volume decreases). So the damage would be done at freezing. No more damage after that. Sure, a combination of lower external temperatures, wind, duration of below freezing, leaving the doors and windows open, etc., will cause the temperature of the water in the pipes to reach freezing more quickly. But my poorly-winterized trailer in cloudy skies and wind at 30*F for a few days will be in the same sorry boat as the fella with a few days of 0*F and wind.

My portable compressor takes about an hour to blow the lines until there's no mist. It can keep up with continuous blowing at 45 PSI. A less powerful compressor may not keep up and will, therefore, take longer to get the job done.

My sample set with the trailer is small...two winters with one week each continuously below freezing. Inside temps measured at below freezing (once at 3*F) by a remote sensor buried under clothes in a drawer.

Sample set with hose bibs is much bigger...they can burst at 30*F with prolonged exposure. That can also burst at 3*F with prolonged exposure. Come to think about it, the true hose bib has not burs when covered; however, 3/4" non-hose-bibs valves used as hose bibs have burst at those temps (30*F and 3*F).

[richard5933]

Here's my basic procedure. No air compressor - takes less than an hour start to finish once everything is in place.

Drain everything the best I can using the low point drains. Pull the plug from the water heater. Drain it and then flush it out. Leave the plug out. Set it to bypass with the valves. Pull the drinking water filter and install bypass cap.

The I use a hand pump to pump pink antifreeze through the city inlet until it makes it to the first fixture inside, and then I switch to using the pump to push the pink stuff through all the fixtures. Usually the discharge of pink stuff into the drains while I flush the lines is more than adequate to take care of the traps.

After antifreeze is in all the lines, I open the pump intake screen and make sure it's dry inside. Then I raise the line from the tank to the pump enough to allow any remaining moisture to drain back to the tank.

Once it's all done and I know all the water points are running dark pink, I drain the antifreeze from the low-point drains, then pour that into the gray and black tanks to make sure the residual liquid in them is protected.

At one point I considered getting an oil less compressor to avoid using pink antifreeze, but with an older trailer with some drooping water lines there will be low points that may collect the residual moisture in the lines. Up here where it might be -20F or -30F I just don't feel safe leaving any possibility for water to remain in the lines, and running antifreeze through is the only certain way to know it's gone.

[Saluda372]

We do our camp the same way every winter, never an issue. Blow out with a compressor, RV anti freeze in traps and toilet. About a 45 minute job until mist is gone. 40 psi or so.

[Di3s3l_Power]

Thanks, I get all the steps and the difference between using air compressor and RV anti-freeze. I watched numerous videos and Airstream support videos.

One question during Aistream seminar/ presentation support video was if you can fill anti-freeze in fresh tank and pump everywhere. The technician said that will also work but you use more anti-freeze.

What I don't understand is why the fresh water tank will have a long lasting taste if I fill few gallons to pump the whole system and then drain the fresh water tank. In my opinion, the residual anti-freeze in the fresh water tank is minimal and should fade easily in the spring.
Am I wrong???

Thank you for all the feedback

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by Di3s3l_Power

Thanks, I get all the steps and the difference between using air compressor and RV anti-freeze. I watched numerous videos and Airstream support videos.

One question during Aistream seminar/ presentation support video was if you can fill anti-freeze in fresh tank and pump everywhere. The technician said that will also work but you use more anti-freeze.

What I don't understand is why the fresh water tank will have a long lasting taste if I fill few gallons to pump the whole system and then drain the fresh water tank. In my opinion, the residual anti-freeze in the fresh water tank is minimal and should fade easily in the spring.
Am I wrong???

Thank you for all the feedback

Fellow Airstreamer in your neck of the woods; McHenry, IL

Rule of thumb is only use antifreeze where you must; not in the fresh water tank or water heater.

Did your trailer come with a winterize bypass valve? If you don’t have the factory one, Camco makes one. This makes the process easier; you drop the dip tube in a bottle of AF, turn on the pump and open the faucets one at a time until pink comes out of each. Doing so avoids any contamination in the fresh water and water heater tanks.

Follow Hermes steps and you’ll be fine; that’s exactly what I do every year.

[Di3s3l_Power]

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

Fellow Airstreamer in your neck of the woods; McHenry, IL

Rule of thumb is only use antifreeze where you must; not in the fresh water tank or water heater.

Did your trailer come with a winterize bypass valve? If you don’t have the factory one, Camco makes one. This makes the process easier; you drop the dip tube in a bottle of AF, turn on the pump and open the faucets one at a time until pink comes out of each. Doing so avoids any contamination in the fresh water and water heater tanks.

Follow Hermes steps and you’ll be fine; that’s exactly what I do every year.

Thanks!

I will follow the steps

Mine is a 2022 Bambi 22FB and I believe all + 2011 come with a water bypass valve for AF. The water heater is tankless so not much to do there, no instructions

[SailorSam205]

My process has me blowing out the lines with air first and then pumping anti-freeze into them. My thought is, with lots of water in the lines, initially, the anti-freeze gets diluted. So by blowing out first, what goes thru and out the various faucets is stronger sooner. I haven't seen a need to immediately drain the anti-freeze and leave it in until I rinse the system in the spring.


One additional thing I do about every 3 years, after initially draining the water heater, I refill it with a 50/50 solution of water and white vinegar to clean out lime buildup. Let the solution sit cold over night or turn on the heater and wait an hour or two. Either way, open the pressure relief valve before pulling the plug or anode to drain the heater. You will have a pressure buildup from the vinegar reacting with the lime. Rinse the heater well to get all the slime and chunky bits out of the drain hole to keep from getting feeding into the plumbing.

[farafield]

I think most people, if they're going to do both, blow air first and then pump anti-freeze through the lines. Do some research though because I've seen some missed steps here. For instance, I disconnect the water pump from the fresh water tank and hook up the anti freeze to the pump in order to skip filling the tank with pink stuff. There are pretty good lists in the OM, Rich Luhr's two airstream guides and elsewhere on the forum. I've read a bunch of them and then made my own list that works for me. There are certain steps you don't want to miss such as closing fresh water tank drains before doing the anti-freeze and having to go back to the hardware store to get another jug (guilty). It's something we do once a year (usually) so until you've done it 50 times, you need to slow down and take your time.

[gypsydad]

Last year was the first time in all my AS's over 1 years, where I did winterize...I had been leaving the furnace on at 42degrees, but when it froze year before here in Austin Area, I could not get any propane for a week and got way too concerned about running out of propane. I didn't run out, and had a couple 20# bottles if needed, but the ice and road conditions along with having to go over each day to check on status at the storage facility was too much; so I did winterize last year. I drained out all the water with spigots open. I then closed them and applied 45lbs of pressure to the fresh water inlet, with my compressor, and opened each spigot until no more spray came out, including toilet valve. I also opened the hot water heater drain and did same. I poured 1/2Cup of RV antifreeze into each drain, left the valves open all winter, including the fresh water tank drain. No issues. I know there are folks here who may do more steps, but this worked.

Several folks gave similar advice to what I did; note, the fresh water, black water, gray water tanks are very thick and likely would not crack. I made sure I drained fresh tank and blow out; but, I did nothing to black/gray other than empty them. If anyone has had a black/gray/fresh water tank crack from freezing, please share... Stands to reason they are thicker material and would not likely crack if they were empty....but, who knows...

Several years back, I had 3 leaks in my earlier 2014 25' AS; a toilet elbow fitting, a shower control valve behind the wall, and a cracked valve into the filter under the sink; not fun replacing after troubleshooting where the leaks were! Not fun!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

You can crack cast iron pipe when water freezes in it. That stuff is *way* stronger than anything in a typical RV plumbing system. Water freezing applies a lot of force. What protects this or that ( PEX pipe ....) from freeze damage is the fact that it stretches. The water freezes and the pipe gets a bit bigger rather than breaking.

A little water sloshing around in a big empty tank is unlikely to do much damage. It will freeze, but the force has nothing to really push against. It's not tightly enclosed the way it would be in an elbow / pipe or faucet.

Bob

[pcskier]

I only winterize with compressed air, my $99 pancake compressor is fine. Just need to let it repressurize a few times. Purchase the brass quick connect fitting that you screw in to the city water inlet, then connect the air hose. Don’t mess with the ‘tire filler’ schrader fitting—major PIA.

For water pump, disconnect lines and burp it a few times to get water out of it.

Don’t forget to also hit the black flush with compressed air for a few seconds to clear the back flow valve.

-10 and lower here and no issues. I used antifreeze once—even after flushing lines for an hour, on the first trip (in hot temps) that antifreeze smell was in the water. Just my experience.

Air only will do you fine if you spend the time to thoroughly blow the lines fully.