Winterization Issue

[Barry Weston]

I have a 2019 Flying Cloud 23FB that I purchased used this July. It has a winterization kit. I have tried multiple times to get the antifreeze into the system but have come to the conclusion that the antifreeze is just siphoning into the freshwater tank as soon as I open the 3 way valve after filling the clear poly line with antifreeze and putting the end of the poly line in the jug of antifreeze. I don't ever get around to turning on the pump because the antifreeze is just draining fairly quickly into the FW tank. (I did try turning the pump on the first and second attempts but that did nothing towards pulling the antifreeze into the waterlines. The local dealer claims there is a check valve in the pump that is defective and the pump needs to be replaced. ($300) I don't understand how that can be the issue if I don't turn the pump on. HELP!

[SSquared]

Welcome to AirForums! We are glad to have you with us.

My trailer is a 2013 and it does not have a winterization kit. That became standard a few years later.

There have been several reports on AirForums of people discovering the factory installed their winterization kit backwards. The two positions of the valve should give you a connection between tank and pump in one position, and between antifreeze line and pump in the other position. It sounds like your valve is giving you a connection between the tank and the antifreeze line. It should be simple to remove the valve and reinstall it in the right orientation, although it might be in a hard-to-reach location.

Do you know if the previous owners ever used the winterization kit? Some people only use compressed air, and some never winterize because they live way south.

It sounds like you now have antifreeze in your fresh tank. That's a shame, because it'll take a lot of flushing to get the taste out of the tank.

[Barry Weston]

I tend to think it is backwards. A PITA to change. Taking to dealer tomorrow. I am guessing they will charge me to change it to the correct orientation.
1 of the previous owners was in FL and the second was in Charleston, SC. No way of knowing if they winterized at all and definitely don't know if they attempted to use the winterization method using antifreeze. This seems like a simpler method....if the winterization valve is correctly installed.
Thanks for the reply.

[JimT]

We just winterized our 23’ FC for the 1st time yesterday. Bought a “used” 2023 earlier this year. 1st time to own an RV / AS. Once I found the bypass valve (under a secured board in the closet), it was relatively easy to turn the valve for winterization. However, it took a gallon of antifreeze very fast. Then I realized I had left the fresh water drain open and discovered I was pumping into the fresh water tank because pink fluid was draining out. I closed the drain valves and was able to flush the other lines to run pink antifreeze out of the kitchen, bathroom, shower (inside and out), and toilet water lines. So, yes it does pull into the freshwater take also, at least the way I did it. Maybe next year will go a bit smoother Although I live in Texas, I didn’t want another “snowmagedon” catching me unprepared. Good luck with your repairs. Looking forward to how you feel it works afterwards.

[ROBERT CROSS]

...I'm the odd nut out on this one.

We used AF the first year with 'Cloudsplitter' and tasted it for months afterward.

Now we just blow the lines with air, and add AF to the sink, shower, and bathroom drains, along with the toilet sprayer and shower drain.

The water heater tank also gets drained and blown out, along with the outside *shower* line.

Bob
🇺🇸

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

...I'm the odd nut out on this one.

We used AF the first year with 'Cloudsplitter' and tasted it for months afterward.

Now we just blow the lines with air, and add AF to the sink, shower, and bathroom drains, along with the toilet sprayer and shower drain.

The water heater tank also gets drained and blown out, along with the outside *shower* line.

Bob
🇺🇸

Hi, no, I also only used antifreeze in my lines one time, and now, I only put the antifreeze in the traps.

[jeffmc306]

Barry, if the handle on the winterizing valve is pointed backwards when in normal use, it’s in backwards. This is how it was on our 2019 Globetrotter (see photo below).

JC reversed ours on a punch list visit in October 2020. Perhaps your dealer will do it no charge for good will or under an unposted recall from the Mothership.

If you need to winterize before you get to the dealer you can pick up a 1/2” PEX Crimp x FIP Swivel Elbow and slip a piece of flexible tubing over the barbed end.

Remove the fitting before the strainer and and connect the elbow and tubing. Complete your winterizing as you would with the valve.

Good luck!
Jeff

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

...I'm the odd nut out on this one.

We used AF the first year with 'Cloudsplitter' and tasted it for months afterward.

Now we just blow the lines with air, and add AF to the sink, shower, and bathroom drains, along with the toilet sprayer and shower drain.

The water heater tank also gets drained and blown out, along with the outside *shower* line.

Bob
🇺🇸

Same here. Blow all lines. Empty and blow water heater. Detach system side of pump, run pump for a few seconds, and reattach (in case I forget later). AF in the drains. Open three low-point valves and drain fresh water tank.

[waninae39]

re read the manual. just follow each step

then just blow out each water outlet one at a time
all you need to do is pour AF into each trap and NOT the water line!

that has worked for us for over a decade

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

...I'm the odd nut out on this one.
....
The water heater tank also gets drained and blown out, along with the outside *shower* line.

Bob
🇺🇸

Regardless of the method you use, dealing with the the hot water tank is the simplest part of the process. Drain the tank and then bypass the tank, that is it. No need to add pink stuff, no need to blow out the tank. If any drops of water are left in the tank there will be plenty of space for it to expand. There is no valve at the drain location, only a plastic plug. No worries about anything freezing.

[JeffKim]

I vote for the backwards valve. With the pump the backflow valve is to prevent city water under pressure from flowing through the pump into the fresh tank. You'd have encountered this problem if that were the case and regardless, I don't think there is any relationship to the antifreeze line.

Plus I'll add a new pump is around $90, so a good case to DIY or even better there is a rebuild kit for around $35. But I don't think either is necessary.

I found the winterization instructions to be a little confusing. It discusses blowing out the lines, then "Oh by the way" there is a winterization kit you can use. I do both, but as stated above many just blow out all the lines and that is sufficient. Also, don't forget the low point drains (like me)!

[PB_NB]

I just did my 2019. I didn't get a winterization kit.

I just picked up a hose bib attachment to my compressor and run it up to 50 psi. Then I open up each fixture until I get rushing air. I do the outside shower and the toilet and pop the water heater drain plug. Then a 1 gallon jug of antifreeze goes into all the drain traps and and into the toilet so I have antifreeze in both the grey and black tanks.

I do run the waterpump as well to move anything in that part of the system along.

Then cover the wheels/tires and turn off all the battery connections and open the fridge door.

Then take all the liquids from the pantry and food cupboard into the house.

Lots to do but it should make the next years' travels a bit better!

[Daquenzer]

1. Empty fresh water tank and open low drain points. Then close.
2. Empty hot water tank. Turn valve so no water goes into tank.
3. Turn on pump and run until no water comes out of lines. This empties any residual water in tank and in the lines.
4. Attach compressor and blow out the lines one line at a time. Not forgetting the outside shower faucet.
5. Disconnect water pump line to drain residual water in the pump. Critical or the pump can freeze up.
6. Take off water filter leading to the pump to dab up any water left.
7. Pour AF in all traps and put in toilet.
8. Also make sure the shower heads are taken off and blown out and store in warm area. I learned the hard way and a shower head was ruined.

I keep the trailer plugged in. And I do this despite having a heated garage for the camper. No chances.

Done.

De-winterization starts with filling water tank and adding bleach to sanitize. Turn on pump and faucets to sanitize the lines. Leave set for 24 hours. Do not put bleach and water into the hot water tank.

Then empty water tank and open the low point lines and drain the water.

Then fill the tank again and run water through all the lines to clear the bleach.

Empty tank and then put new fresh water in to desired amount.

Then open valve to hot water tank and fill it.

Then hook up to public water and run water through system to clear any residual bleach smell.

Also I bleach the fresh water hoses to sanitize them. Put them in bucket of bleach water.

[btsmith]

Originally Posted by Barry Weston

I have a 2019 Flying Cloud 23FB that I purchased used this July. It has a winterization kit. I have tried multiple times to get the antifreeze into the system but have come to the conclusion that the antifreeze is just siphoning into the freshwater tank as soon as I open the 3 way valve after filling the clear poly line with antifreeze and putting the end of the poly line in the jug of antifreeze. I don't ever get around to turning on the pump because the antifreeze is just draining fairly quickly into the FW tank. (I did try turning the pump on the first and second attempts but that did nothing towards pulling the antifreeze into the waterlines. The local dealer claims there is a check valve in the pump that is defective and the pump needs to be replaced. ($300) I don't understand how that can be the issue if I don't turn the pump on. HELP!

Hi - we bought a 2019 Bambi Sport 16 and had exactly the same issue.

It turned out that the valve was installed backward, so that when opened to winterize, it pumped into the tank instead of into lines feeding the trailer.

We took our trailer to the dealership and explained what was happening, and they fixed it under warranty as it was a clear installation error by Airstream.

Hopefully this helps you out!

[ricjones]

We have had intermittent issues with the pump not pulling AF into the system. Our winterizing valve is installed correctly.

First thing another poster said on another thread that worked for us is to make sure the pump connections are tight - even a little air getting sucked into the lines can degrade the AF getting pulled into the lines.

Second, we keep one of these in the pump compartment, also another poster's idea. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EH4V0Y...fed_asin_title

You can remove the funnel and attach directly to AF bottle and hold up high to help the flow, or just hold the funnel high and pour AF into the funnel. Both work when the pump is acting up and you need to get things done.

The other thing we noticed is the tightness of the space around the pump kinks the clear tube and kills the flow.

[ricjones]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

1. Empty fresh water tank and open low drain points. Then close.
2. Empty hot water tank. Turn valve so no water goes into tank.
3. Turn on pump and run until no water comes out of lines. This empties any residual water in tank and in the lines.
4. Attach compressor and blow out the lines one line at a time. Not forgetting the outside shower faucet.
5. Disconnect water pump line to drain residual water in the pump. Critical or the pump can freeze up.
6. Take off water filter leading to the pump to dab up any water left.
7. Pour AF in all traps and put in toilet.
8. Also make sure the shower heads are taken off and blown out and store in warm area. I learned the hard way and a shower head was ruined.

I keep the trailer plugged in. And I do this despite having a heated garage for the camper. No chances.

Done.

De-winterization starts with filling water tank and adding bleach to sanitize. Turn on pump and faucets to sanitize the lines. Leave set for 24 hours. Do not put bleach and water into the hot water tank.

Then empty water tank and open the low point lines and drain the water.

Then fill the tank again and run water through all the lines to clear the bleach.

Empty tank and then put new fresh water in to desired amount.

Then open valve to hot water tank and fill it.

Then hook up to public water and run water through system to clear any residual bleach smell.

Also I bleach the fresh water hoses to sanitize them. Put them in bucket of bleach water.

Not sure if others have seen this, but when I do nothing but the air method, and then chicken out and winterize with AF, some clear water always comes out of the lines before the pink, even after I used lots of air at pressure in each line. Not sure if it would be a problem or not but we use AF to be sure.

[ricjones]

Originally Posted by aftermath

Regardless of the method you use, dealing with the the hot water tank is the simplest part of the process. Drain the tank and then bypass the tank, that is it. No need to add pink stuff, no need to blow out the tank. If any drops of water are left in the tank there will be plenty of space for it to expand. There is no valve at the drain location, only a plastic plug. No worries about anything freezing.

In older Airstreams, yes. In new ones, the tankless heaters require good draining and using air to blow out, or pumping antifreeze through. Tankless heaters do not have a bypass at all. On ours, the drain valve is higher then the lowest point on the drain pipe, so you cannot get all the water out, even with air, so we pump antifreeze through.

In addition, the tankless heaters have an freeze protect which will try to run when it gets below 40F or so. So you have to turn off the switch that is in the outside compartment once you winterize.

[richard5933]

This is a situation with some very clear testing/diagnostic steps...

(Not in any particular order..)

1) If the check valve in the pump is bad, your fresh water tank will be filling with water every time you're connected to city water. If this doesn't happen, your pump and its check valve is fine. If your freshwater tank tends to take on water while connected to city water this could be your problem.

2) If the winterization kit is installed backwards it could send antifreeze into the freshwater tank. Not good and a relatively easy fix.

3) There is NEVER a need to put antifreeze into the freshwater tank. Same for the aluminum tank on an Atwood style water heater. Follow the instructions for draining/bypassing and then continue with the winterization.

4) It is VERY difficult to get all the antifreeze out of a freshwater tank and this will likely result in an off taste for a while till it's all gone. Get friendly with the drain valve on the tank and fill/empty numerous times. Helpful if you can drive the trailer around with a full water tank a few minutes between filling/draining so that the new water can splosh all around.

5) If you use the good (alcohol-free) antifreeze, it should leave virtually no after taste once it's flushed from the lines. Only takes a few minutes to fully flush if the antifreeze was only added to the lines and not the tank(s). Be sure to operate all valves during the flush process to get out all the lingering antifreeze.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by ricjones

In older Airstreams, yes. In new ones, the tankless heaters require good draining and using air to blow out, or pumping antifreeze through. ...

Point well taken but, I was responding to Robert Cross and his statement that I included in my post. A 2003 Airstream does not have a tankless water heater. My fault for not specifying that. Chalk it up to an old guy, new trick kind of challenge.

[jdcamp]

I pump the antifreeze in manually through the city water inlet. First close all valves and bypass the hot water heater then open one valve at a time and pump until pink comes out. Do all hot and cold water valves/faucets. Works well. Once lines are full run pump briefly. Before starting blow out all lines with air pressure.