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Old 12-26-2021, 04:35 PM   #21
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Short Daylight Hours and Long Evenings- Winter Camping

Ian... the real problem with Winter Months are the Short Daylight hours and Long Evenings.

There is nothing Weird about Winter Boondocking Off the Grid or On the Grid. Depends on where... Tucson even gets hard freezes in the Winter.

If you EXIT Zion Park to the South... you have to pay $15 to get to Hurricane, Utah. The Park Ranger has to stop the opposite direction traffic, so same direction trailers can go down the center. The sandstone tunnel is narrow and not well lit.

Red Rocks today is Sunny and 46F in the shade.

An Airstream has been parked at the Stations Casino on Sunset Blvd, Henderson, NV... and across the street in the large parking lot at the furniture store. Open it appears... for temporarily resting.

Contact us when coming through southern Nevada with a PM. We can go check out Hoover Dam / Boulder Dam. There is suppose to be water in it, too.

My intentions are to offer caveats we discovered since 2006 towing. Then Tent camping since 1965 with a Learner's Permit and a 1956 VW. I do not expect everyone to have the same opinion as we have.

Blue Beacon in north Las Vegas. Another in Kingman, Arizona. No Brightner. No Brush.

There are some optional, close to highway, OTG Boondocking north of Lake Havasu, Arizona in the desert on the East on the way down from Las Vegas. Full Timers on the BLM.
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Old 12-26-2021, 05:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
Ian... the real problem with Winter Months are the Short Daylight hours and Long Evenings.

Red Rocks today is Sunny and 46F in the shade.

Contact us when coming through southern Nevada with a PM. We can go check out Hoover Dam / Boulder Dam. There is suppose to be water in it, too.
My intention is straight forward - to learn from the wisdom of others (and to also temper that with my own dumb mistakes as well.) I'll definitely ping you when I am coming through Nevada. Right now, I am intending Red Rock from 1/22, then Watchman in Zion from 1/29 for two weeks.

I am considering Lees Ferry Campground at the other end of 89/89A the week of 2/12 before taking my reservation at Trailer Village, G Canyon S Rim at 2/19. (then the WBCCI rally in Casa Grande, 3/9).

Re long evenings - I am bringing two telescopes with me - an 8" newtownian for imaging, and a 15" dobsonian for observing. I'd be glad to star hop with you if the evenings allow for it when in NV!

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Old 12-26-2021, 05:37 PM   #23
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I commend those of you who use your Airstreams in winter conditions. I can certainly see the appeal of it, but for me personally it seems like too much work. Maybe I’ll warm up to it…
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Old 12-26-2021, 06:24 PM   #24
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My intention is straight forward - to learn from the wisdom of others (and to also temper that with my own dumb mistakes as well.) I'll definitely ping you when I am coming through Nevada. Right now, I am intending Red Rock from 1/22, then Watchman in Zion from 1/29 for two weeks.

I am considering Lees Ferry Campground at the other end of 89/89A the week of 2/12 before taking my reservation at Trailer Village, G Canyon S Rim at 2/19. (then the WBCCI rally in Casa Grande, 3/9).

Re long evenings - I am bringing two telescopes with me - an 8" newtownian for imaging, and a 15" dobsonian for observing. I'd be glad to star hop with you if the evenings allow for it when in NV!

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We were at Lee's Ferry this Fall for two nights. Few trailers as it is primarily the input for floating the Colorado River. Most who trailer camped, preferred the lower end of the parking lot. We were on the upper end, quiet and great view of the Colorado River and rafts departing.

Really... "The End of the Road", nowhere, for sure. Good Service Station south of the Lees Ferry turnout.
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Old 12-26-2021, 06:38 PM   #25
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Pros and Cons to be tested? What did you think doing it?

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I commend those of you who use your Airstreams in winter conditions. I can certainly see the appeal of it, but for me personally it seems like too much work. Maybe I’ll warm up to it…
****

Dennis... you figured it all out on your own.

BOTH SIDES of these discussions add more information for everyone to consider and photographs are always appealing evidence.

The reason we do not Winter in an Airstream, we are hiking and exploring the Geology in remote locations. Also, it is unpleasant in Winter Weather. Dangerous at elevation Off the Grid, due to the possibility of heavy snow. Icy or snow packed roads are know for spectacular pileups and risk of lives.

The cold and humidity can be managed after sunset, but not something we care to do. I prefer to plow or snow blow our driveway, not be stuck in it.

Yes... with lots of Propane and venting the windows or ceiling vent... try it.

There are also good points against taking the risk.

There are those who show it can be done and successfully.

If I wanted my nose hairs to tickle with near Zero F and dry air... I will stick my head into a freezer.
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Old 12-26-2021, 06:55 PM   #26
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I'm not a fan of winter camping. I won't tow on slick steep roads. De-icers raise havoc with aluminum Airstreams, don't ask how I know. An Airstream is a fair weather travel trailer. Photo #1, my son's trailer on a ski trip. Photo #2, my Overlander after a Colorado snow.

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Old 12-26-2021, 07:29 PM   #27
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My Winter Airstream Message...

It is illegal in Wyoming for the Driver of a Ford F350 pickup to spit out of the Passenger's Window, when the passenger is not wearing a hat.

Not really... but my favorite... What Me Worry? Photo.
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Old 12-26-2021, 08:51 PM   #28
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We camp Feb - Dec here in MT without issue... just drain and prep to dry camp when temps are predicted below freezing.
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:06 AM   #29
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Ian - I got a taste of winter camping this past fall and much of what Ray tells us, resonates now (and reminds me of why I don't have a dog). I left DC in early September for what turned out to be 84 days on the road. I dry camped at Crater Lake for 4 nights, right before it shut down for the season. Snow fell the first night. As soon as sun came up, it was fine. I learned quickly that as soon as the shadows started to fall in the evening though, it was gonna get cold fast. It was 18-20 degrees F every morning. Bring your warmest sleeping bag. Merino wool layers are essential and toe warmers are good, too. I was so ready for the KOA in Klamath Falls, it wasn't even funny. I re-grouped there for 2 nights and moved on to Grand Canyon for 2 weeks with full hook-ups. A blizzard hit about an hour after I set up camp in a nearly-empty campground (this was October) and temps went into the twenties. But this time it was like night and day because I had full-hook-ups and employed all the measures that one does to keep their Airstream intact through the cold nights. The campground filled up almost overnight with the exodus of dry campers coming in from surrounding campgrounds. What worked well in minimizing humidity was whenever you switch to your propane furnace, crack open your two Fantastic Fans about an inch or more so heat can escape; and keep temps as low as is comfortable especially at night i.e. around 56. Always use your stove-top fan when cooking. Rest your windows on the little window clips at the bottom i.e. unlock windows, move them open a bit, turn the locking clips so they point upward and rest the window on them. These 3 things will really help minimize humidity in the Trailer. Installing Fantastic Fan covers with insect screens over the fans will ensure snow/rain doesn't enter the trailer when you've got the lids cracked open. A side benefit is the fans won't shut down when it rains because the covers prevent the sensor from activating. After Grand Canyon, I dry camped for 3 nights in Canyon de Chelly and again, temps were in 20's and 30's at night. It was an incredible place and glad I went but by the time I pulled up stakes, I was ready, so ready to head south. I learned a lot and I'm moving to lithium batteries in the spring to better prepare for future dry-camping endeavors. Good luck, you sound like you know what you're getting into with the cold.
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Bring your warmest sleeping bag. Merino wool layers are essential and toe warmers are good, too.
Pat --

Sleeping bag: The North Face Manatee (5F degree bag) - (I am 7' tall, built fairly strongly); never failed me since 1995...
Wool blankets: This year, I purchased as well two Pendleton "medicine man design" wool blankets for the bed, as well as an electric mattress pad for that initial warm-up (only 1.5A draw during use!)
Feet warmth - hiking socks are in the ready!

The only thing I am "worried about" is my CPAP -- but then again, it may free me up to keep my head below covers at all times, since the draw is external to the bedding. As long as the lines don't crystalize ice between the humidity tank and me, I should be ok.

Yeah, I deliberately bookended all my boondocking weeks against full hookup weeks -- except for a regional park in Pima (SW Phoenix) followed by Red Rocks in Las Vegas region). While I've winter camped in Appalachia at the weekends before, this trip is me dipping my toes into 7-14 day boondock events; with at least one week in a temperature zone that likely require me to dry camp, and keep a "business bucket" in the shower stall, with the fan turned on 24x7
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:11 AM   #31
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Just what I need is a dehumidifier. Or two flat screen televisions with no tv stations for a hundred miles. ...and a generator idling outside?

At 90% humidity at 25 degrees outside, frost... the humidity inside your trailer is humidity on steroids in rain and sleet and snow... and if not careful your windows are iced up and melting at sunrise into the interior.

Do not need the noise. We travel away from Humidity... Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma... and Texas.... sweating is a hobby.

We need no humidifiers in Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah... the Great American Desert they call it. And other States. We are use to 5% humidity.

I guess we could Plug Into a Rock for a dehumidifier? This Off the Grid Boondocking, not plugged into a RV Outlet and watching television.

Thayne, Wyoming right now... wet and snowy. Have relatives in Thayne. Too many Aspen tells me too Humid. They do not have a dehumidifier... either. Their skin is wrinkled and humidity is welcomed. Shop in Alpine and great restaurant Yankee Doodle and customers come in and have Side Arms, as the sign says Side Arms Welcome.

Relatives leave town in the Winter. Snow Birds... snow will melt in Spring.

We ADDED Water in the SUMMERS of Colorado and Wyoming in the Winter Months.

Having a wood burning Fireplace heating the house, closed system with fans... it does not suck the air up the chimney and add water in pans near the fireplace.

Do not want to damage the woodwork. When you have 5% humidity... Do not need to Take water out as you cannot. Don't have a dehumidifier in my 2016 F350 King Ranch either. Have two Blue Heelers that do that job exhaling.
Thayne is where we summer, Ray...they just re-opened Dads Steak House, which sells local "aged" prime beef from The Block (which is located behind Dads). Friends of mine own this place and if you go inside The Block, you can purchase your own aged meat to cook...their Red, White, and Blue cheese Brats are to die for, BTW! Tell them Jerry says hello, if you go! But I digress...the humidifier is a necessity in TX and many of the Southern States you mention...of course, Florida also. If you don't have one, you don't know what your missing!

(don't need it in WY, however. ;-)
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Old 01-01-2022, 06:27 AM   #32
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The coldest I have ever been was camping at Yellowstone in the Canyon Campground.

Wife, three kids in a nice pop-up with heater.

17-20 every night.

Snow every night.

Inside canvas frozen solid every night.

Battery taken to service for recharge every day.

Propane tanks refilled twice.

Water in the bathrooms (no hot water) so cold it hurt to brush your teeth.

Did I mention this was the beginning of JUNE?

Couldn't get the kids out of the car to look at the springs, mudpots etc because they liked being warm. Couldn't see much anyway as the steam let you walk into a buffalo as you couldn't see them either...
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:08 AM   #33
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Red face

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The coldest I have ever been was camping at Yellowstone in the Canyon Campground.

Wife, three kids in a nice pop-up with heater.

17-20 every night.

Snow every night.

Inside canvas frozen solid every night.

Battery taken to service for recharge every day.

Propane tanks refilled twice.

Water in the bathrooms (no hot water) so cold it hurt to brush your teeth.

Did I mention this was the beginning of JUNE?

Couldn't get the kids out of the car to look at the springs, mudpots etc because they liked being warm. Couldn't see much anyway as the steam let you walk into a buffalo as you couldn't see them either...
No fun to camp when that cold with kids not wanting to enjoy, for sure! Bet the "crowds" were not too bad, however? We took our son and his daughters to see Yellowstone this summer. We found ourselves deciding to sit and wait an hour early for Old Faithful, thinking we had the best front row seats since we were so early. (kids don't like to sit that long; I forgot that.) ..then the "I'm more important than you" crowd started crowding right in front of us, standing and doing "selfies" all along in front of the front all the folks who had front row seats blocking our views..we gave up before she spouted; that day, Old Faithfull wasn't so "faithful"; she was late 20 minutes late!...as we slowly started to walk back to our car, we turned around in time to see her start her spouting...actually, our view was pretty good from being farther away! Crowds in Yellowstone are ridiculous last several years...go in early...I mean real early, before the park opens when sun is coming up. More animals, less traffic, and more enjoyable without the crowds that start to grow...
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Old 01-05-2022, 10:18 AM   #34
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We camped up on Hood over NY. Records set for digging, fresh tracks, and temps in the lower single digits. Water supply didn't get stuck until the 4th day and it was free by the afternoon when we pulled out.



My neighbor waited too long to dig before his generator went out and had to abandon ship!

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Old 01-05-2022, 10:27 AM   #35
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[IMG][/IMG]

And after the storm...

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-05-2022, 10:52 AM   #36
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Rustproofing the Airstream

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I’m not against winter camping, though I do my best to b-line it south the minute we leave Minnesota in January. The biggest issue I have and agree with Ray is the de-icing chemicals used on our roads. We purchased our 2021 Airstream last February in Oklahoma after it sat for 30 days on the lot covered in muck. The corrosion underneath is insane! The jacks, grounding lugs, anything metal is totally corroded.
That is why I had my 28' rustproofed. We have been doing it for many decades up here on our cars; when I drove my Sierra off the dealer lot, I went straight to the rustproofing shop to make sure there was no dirt or dust under there before the treatment. It's a 2018 and under there it's like new.

For the trailer, I used a felt pen to mark the belly pan with an "X" in the center of all the sections between the frame and its crossmembers (you can tell from the rivets). The tech drilled a hole on the X and pressure sprayed the rustproofing solution 360 degrees all around covering the steel structure within that section and pressed in a plastic plug (adapted to the thickness of the belly pan, not the same thickness as a car or truck body) and then repeated this for all the sections that I had marked. The underside is totally protected (what is visible and not visible) and there is no hint of rust anywhere under our trailer and there will never be as long as I own it.

Since I hadn't planned on driving the airstream in the winter I initially didn't think of rustproofing it, but its when we stayed for a while on the beaches of the beautiful but windy Gulf of Mexico, that I figured air salt is as insidious as road salt (if not more so).

If ever you are in Canada you will find rustproofing firms with branches in different cities, but for RVs and trailers few have a floor pit that is long enough for an RV or trailer (for cars they don't use pits). The one I found was with the Antirouille Metropolitain chain (https://www.antirouille.com/succursales-en.html), their Anjou branch (Metropolitan Boul. on the island of Montreal) has the pit for trailers and RVs (and trucks). It was the supervisor who did the job and he was very thorough (about 1 hour). This is the trailer over the pit.
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Old 01-05-2022, 10:55 AM   #37
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Holy Molly... Real Winter Boondockers... I am a Sissy

I love the Ice Photos. Makes me remember the Pleistocene Ice Age... loved it.

Yellowstone Park... always is a... zoo. Humans survived because they pushed their way to the FRONT of the Free Food Line. Behind the Free Food Line were hungry Grizzly Bears.

Some step into the Geyser water. Bring some shrimp... the signs are for real. They are hot.

Those Humans who survived... were the Neanderthals. Well, not really, made this up.

As a learning Geologist going to the University of Wyoming, I heard a lot about Yellowstone Park. It is an ACTIVE VOLCANIC Area. Play the Yellowstone Lottery... some day it will Blow. Yellowstone Eruptions of ASH covered parts of Wyoming, Colorado, Montana into Nebraska with Ash that killed and quickly buried many animals. I liked collecting fossils in the Badlands... how do you think all of these animals... became buried? Think hard... hmmmm. You, my Human Bean relatives... could set an example. Maybe.

The Geology Department was a bit confused when, may had been Jackson Lake... on the North Side was losing water. It was getting shallow.

Well... the Lake was not getting shallow... it was the GROUND WAS getting HIGHER. Yellowstone Park is not STABLE. Riding Cowboy on a Volcanic Caldera?

Earthquakes will ALTER the Geyser Activity below the surface a mile, more or less. I did not write the Yellowstone paper... just listened to them talking about Tourists not knowing that Yellowstone could Launch some Tourists into the Upper Atmosphere and back.

I found plenty of fossils 38,000,000 years old in the Oligocene. The Eocene is older and full of fossil mammals and other life forms. Then there were Primates and Eohippus horse no taller than our Blue Heelers. Yep... no saddles either.

Sit around the campfire and tell the short story about Yellowstone to feel for a... mild quake and shake. If it is a real shaker closer to the surface... go to Old Faithful later in the day... it could be readjusting. If you know more... add this.

I like good stories. It makes me want to Explode with Excitement. Being launched into Space? Be inside your Airstream. I will find you... I found the large Turtle... actually Tortoise, but who really cares. It is not moving.
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Old 01-05-2022, 11:40 AM   #38
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This whole discussion depends on what you mean by winter camping. What are reasonable cold temperature limits to an Airstream? And where are you going to be camping and for how long? How much propane do you carry and how large is your battery bank?

Since Ray usually is boondocking at the end of a 20 mile dirt road at 7,000 feet then winter camping can suck.

But if you are in an RV park with electricity and also have access to plenty of propane then some freezing weather with snow is not the end of the world.

So we are headed to the Cedar City Utah area(6,000 feet) for the next few weeks where the temperatures should be between 24 and 44. These numbers seem to work for us. If some horrible weather appears we can bail out to St. George (2,700 feet) or Las Vegas (2,000 feet)

The colder it is outside the hotter we set the heat in the trailer. The forced air heater uses a heat exchanger so there is no excess humidity from using that heater. We have an adapter and can also use the low pressure propane port as a propane source.

We do not use city water rather our internal water tank. So fresh water limits our stay as always.

65 gallons of water
400 AH battery capacity
300 Watts solar but I never count on it
23 gallons propane
Temps should be 24-44
No precipitation
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Old 01-05-2022, 04:11 PM   #39
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And Add Black Ice, Just for Fun

My company sent me to Golden Colorado one winter. I asked..."But doesn't it snow there?" Answer " Yeah... but every two weeks the weather changes. So just go and leave before it snows" ????? Uh? How does that work?

Arrived in January, weather was perfect. Silly me. Stay around for a couple of days and the weather changed- a lot. Learned a bunch about the AS in winter, really quick.
1) You need a 100Lbs propane tank,(Last about 3-4 weeks)
2) Door frame shrinks, cannot close door all the way in 10–15-degree F (Try strapping the inside door handle to the inside hand hold while the snow blows in the opening)
3) You need a heated drinking water hose and insulate all exposed metal. fittings. A must.
4) Two small space heaters help but cannot keep up w/o furnace.
5) Opened grey water valve, closed black water.
6) Locate and identify the closest Orthopedic Surgen. Not that hard as we were just down the hill from Aspen.

Walked outside to clear the snow from behind my truck and "snap" broke my ankle. It seems that during the day it had just warmed up enough to melt the snow sitting on top of the black top, froze and snowed during the night creating "black" ice "no-see-um". For a California boy who was told it was no big deal to be in snow, it was a rude awakening. So....no I don't do snow camping anywhere.
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Old 01-05-2022, 05:17 PM   #40
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2013 31' Classic
billings , Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,576
Not me…I lived in a camper many a winter , near the crusher , in many areas around the state of Wyoming and Montana…it wasn’t good..right now the wind chill is -16….my airstream is not much more than a wind brake…and it will stay parked until March..when we go to the west coast…
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