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Old 02-21-2016, 09:56 PM   #21
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pole barn

Don't worry about the structural integrity of a pole barn. If you buy from a reputable dealer/erector you should have no problems. You should watch any contractor like a hawk though. They should use straight, treated poles and a rim purlin of straight treated, 2x6 at floor level, with a thickened edge. The rest of the lumber should be straight and erected quickly, then the metal sheeting installed before the structure sits in the sun too long. Best to pour the floor after the building is up so it will be inside out of the sun. The sun is very detrimental to fresh concrete.
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:00 PM   #22
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The sun is very detrimental to fresh concrete.
I've worked with concrete pavement, foundations, and the like for thirty years, and never heard that. It's not sunlight that's the problem, it's evaporation of moisture before the concrete has a chance to cure and develop sufficient strength. Fresh concrete should be kept moist and allowed to cure for a week or so, longer for high-strength concretes. Curing typically involves covering the finished concrete surface with wet burlap or similar moisture-retaining covers, so it's not exposed to sunlight anyway.

Here is what the Portland Cement Association has to say on the subject:
Quote:
Either additional moisture should be supplied to the concrete during the early hardening period or the concrete should be covered with water-retaining materials. In general, curing compounds should not be used on surfaces that are to receive protective surface treatments. If a curing compound is used, it must be completely removed before the surface treatment is applied, or it must be compatible with the surface treatment so as not to impair bond. Concrete should be kept moist and above 10 °C (50 °F) for the first week or until the desired strength is achieved. Longer curing periods increase resistance to corrosive substances by increasing strength and reducing permeability for all concrete mixtures.
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:50 PM   #23
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I've poured and finished concrete for more than 60 years and a combination of sun and temp has more efect on getting a good slab than just about anything. Poured hundreds of yards inside large buildings with the roofs on (no sun to speed setting) and had no cracks. Proper temps, slump, and enough finishers to handle it are also critical
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:00 AM   #24
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Poured hundreds of yards inside large buildings with the roofs on (no sun to speed setting) and had no cracks. Proper temps, slump, and enough finishers to handle it are also critical
All of the concrete I've worked with has been outdoors with no roof available or even possible. Roadways, floodwalls, and the like aren't often built indoors.
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:43 AM   #25
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Barns and wind

You do have ranches and some farms near you and I would visit a few with metal roofs and sides on the barns and get advise from them and not us who have no idea of wind strengths and snow fall for your area. I can say here in the South, telephone pole type structures hold up much better than steel beams bolted to concrete slabs when it comes to our straight line winds that can be over 80mpg in strong storms during cold fronts passing through. I have seen too many with heavy damage with buildings made out of concrete blocks next door having limited damage - maybe a little roof damage. All in all keeping your AS out of the hot sun will make having your barn well worth it. My 5th wheel is 12 years old and people think it is new or all most new when I pull in to camp ground. Protect your tires at all times with the high UV light in the desert areas or anywhere as far as that goes. A good barn cost a lot but so does an AS and protecting your investment is worth it and the barn should last longer than your AS and that is a long, long time if took care of. Take the advise about giving your self working room around and above your unit. That is a mistake I made due to the placement area of my RV barn and there are so many times I wish I had moved it to a larger area when having to two it out for everything but airing up the tires! Gravel flooring is cheaper by far over concrete and no worries over ground shifting.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:12 AM   #26
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Thanks folks for the additional comments and pointers. I enjoyed hearing from you all.

Regards - Ron
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:26 AM   #27
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I built a Morton building for my 30' Airstream, full sized pickup and car plus storage and work space. My building is 30 X 40 with a 14' door in the end. I have to work to back my trailer in so it is on one side. My building is insulated with 2 inch styrofoam around the slab. It is my pride and joy. I live in Iowa where it gets cold and I heat my shed. It takes very little propane to keep it at 42. I can go out and turn up the heat and work on anything. Like I say this was one of my few good ideas. Only mistake was I built it with 14' side walls thinking I may want a motor home some day. Morton is worth the exta money.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:32 AM   #28
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The discussion above regarding concrete and wood construction are a bit confusing. Since I worked in commercial construction for 40+ years (involved in pouring litterally 100's of acres of concrete) and I was a general contractor, I'll add my thoughts:

Properly treated wood as a foundation is allowed. Wood poles buried in the earth for a pole barn foundation is done everyday. Concrete may be required to support the wood, but maybe not. Friction of the earth against each pole and the pole bearing upon the earth may adequately support the pole. There is a section in the International Building Code that describes the methods. Local codes may limit or exclude this practice for some specific reason, but properly treated wood is generally allowed as a foundation in contact with earth.

Concrete can be affected by weather.
Initial curing and handling of the concrete during varying weather conditions may affect its strength and durability. There is too much detail to be included in this post. Most likely when you see the surface of concrete failing, it is due to the way the concrete was treated when it was in a semi solid state before it set up.
Cold (freezing) can damage cured concrete by freezing/thawing of moisture within the concrete. When the concrete is intended to be used in freezing conditions, additive products called "air entrainment" should be included in concrete. Air entrainment causes extremely small bubbles to form within the concrete when it is being mixed. These bubbles allow the concrete to be flexible enough to endure many freeze thaw cycles.
Heat causes expansion of cured concrete which in requires flexible (expansion) joints to allow this movement where the concrete comes in contact with a rigid surface.
As concrete cures initially or shrinks due to cooling, flexible (contraction) joints are required. Expansion joints also act as contraction joints, but additional flexible joints control joints (controlled cracking) may be cut through the slab or tooled into the top surface. This is done to create a point where stress created within the concrete by shrinkage can be relived.
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Old 02-22-2016, 12:41 PM   #29
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Wow, more great comments - thanks. Too bad I'm not sponsoring a Barn Raising Rally where I could tap all this great construction expertise. I don't imagine the new WBCCI Wasatch Unit (which I am contemplating joining) needs any competition. Besides, my project is work, so it wouldn't be as much fun as the planned rally in Torrey this May.

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Old 02-22-2016, 01:09 PM   #30
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From Central Wisconsin where we get snow and cold. Frost goes below 4 foot normal footing depth. Winds excess 50 mph yearly.
Have two pole buildings with no problems over 15 years. One 30x50 with 12tx18w roll up overhead brand insulated door. Gravel floor. Other is standard garage 30x40 with 8' tall 18'w insulated door.
Observations: wish I had poured insulated concrete floor with vapor barrier in big barn. Even with sandy well draining soil notice far more moisture. Parking Ontario would help. Venting building well if not insulated is best.
Wish it was 40'wide x 60 long. Could use the extra width since we have He Depot racking 4' depth on both walls. Handy for wood and project storage: Airstream bath parts and car body panels. Another 10' in length and I could leave the TV attached to the AS.
A 14' tall door would open up possibility for class A someday. 12' is fine for B-C but not A or Fifth with roof air-think resale
I'm really pleased with the roll up doors. Other have said doors in tracks and swing open doors are terrible with snow getting in the way.
Also-very happy with the 18' width versus the standard 16'.
The "poles" are placed 4' down with concrete disks in the bottom. They are not sunk in concrete. Nothing has heaved.
Hope this helps.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:42 PM   #31
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Thanks for the education - not sure when or how I'll use it, but it's here waiting for my need. Do have the Pewter Palace to consider though.

Real "Newbie" question. I've always preferred the quonsut hut style buildings - either arched, or arched with straight sides or modified into a pointed arch... that have NO frame but the shape of the individual segments are self supporting - Steelmaster is one brand I've seen locally though there are dozens of manufacturers out there.

What is your take on these buildings? - What I like is that given the land, you can just add more segments onto one or both ends to make a bigger building.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:55 PM   #32
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I have three Morton buildings and they are great. But I also have an all steel hangar and found it was less per sq. foot than the Morton pole-style buildings. I'd investigate both building types for cost efficiency.

You won't regret putting in a concrete floor. Whether it's working on your trailer, loading it for a trip or just keeping everything clean, concrete is worth the cost.
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Old 02-22-2016, 05:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Thanks for the education - not sure when or how I'll use it, but it's here waiting for my need. Do have the Pewter Palace to consider though.

Real "Newbie" question. I've always preferred the quonsut hut style buildings - either arched, or arched with straight sides or modified into a pointed arch... that have NO frame but the shape of the individual segments are self supporting - Steelmaster is one brand I've seen locally though there are dozens of manufacturers out there.

What is your take on these buildings? - What I like is that given the land, you can just add more segments onto one or both ends to make a bigger building.
I've had no personal experience with building a frameless quonset hut type building. I think they serve their purpose. One issue I have heard of; people who closed the ends to create space out of the weather have had problems with dripping condensation forming on the interior surfaces of the enclosed space.
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:00 PM   #34
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Alan, my experience is that skylights condense moisture and it drips from them. Some think the skylights leak, but it's actually condensate. It's always smart to insulate the roof of steel buildings, and don't stretch the insulation too tightly because it will shrink with age.

I won't again install skylights in ceilings--maybe at the top of sidewalls, but not in the ceiling.
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:18 AM   #35
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Good Choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah Man View Post
Anyone have a strong opinion (pro or con) about the durability of a pole style RV garage? It would be wood frame with metal roof/siding supported off treated lumber embedded into the ground (concreted). Attached is a description from one of the vendors:

http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/p...s/foundations/

Looking to build this spring in Burrville, UT (mountain valley area) where we have decent bearing soils with lots of basalt cobbles. Pole style seems like a decent option. Likely similar to this:
Attachment 257589
I owned a retail lumber yard and construction company for many years and have built many pole sheds. This will be a good choice for your project.

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Old 02-24-2016, 12:27 PM   #36
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Thanks, folks - I'm planning to proceed with a pole style RV garage as outlined above. I'll likely post an update once the project gets rolling. I did find out that Morton does not build in Utah which is too bad as they are obviously very reputable per the many endorsements.

Regards - Ron
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Old 02-25-2016, 11:40 AM   #37
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Not sure if Cleary builds out by you. I've been happy with their quality. Having said that, they were on the property when I purchased it.
Keep in mind, treated or not, the lumber in contact with the soil or with concrete poured around it will rot eventually if the bugs don't get it. Then what happens?
If I build again I will compare costs to conventional stick framed and steel truss. Both of which are build on top of the slabs with either perimeter thickness footings or actual foundations. The material that can rot is 1) Visible, 2) Easier to replace and Maintain if needed 3) Easier to insulate, wire and sheath using conventional framing with stud bays.
Good Luck with your project.
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:09 AM   #38
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Do it you it selfers whether fence post are other treated post uses pour concrete into hole, then this encases pole with out any place for water to go so rots poles. I use gravel on fence posts and have not had a post rot out. Some pole barn builder use concrete disk in bottom set post on top then throw in bag of dry redi mix then fill w/tamped soil and this why they have long warrantys against rotting. when I build a building I pour footing set post on top.
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:03 PM   #39
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We are just East of Akron OH and last fall had a steel shed erected for our Class-C. Had driveway contractor do the gravel base - About 4 hours work

3 days later the shed crew showed up and 3 guys built it in about 5 hours total. 32'x 12' x 12'
http://www.alansfactoryoutlet.com/metal-garage-prices

No special permits as there are no posts in the ground (steel re-bar about 3' long every 5' of circumference. Since it is not heated and is open no floor heaving to worry about. This is better than the ADDCO RV covers as I just back the RV into the shed and I'm done. I have 2x8x20" wood planks to park on so tires are off the wet ground.



Steel is galvanized and base is up on bricks.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:15 AM   #40
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BTW, an update on my project: hired a reputable local firm to build the 36' x 48' 2-bay RV pole barn with concrete floor etc. as described above.

http://www.beebebuildings.com/agricultural.html

Filed plan & calcs with Sevier County and have obtained the permit - $560 fee required.

Site leveling starts next week, and building install will be late September.

Will be glad for the added protection of the RV barn, as we have seen weather take its toll on the roof sealants (redone this summer), and unwelcome critters (quickly detected & promptly eliminated.)

Regards - Ron
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