My tanks are frozen

[Silvr_Bullet]

I would very much doubt that freeze damage is included in an insurance policy. It’s the nature of a movable entity ( the trailer ) to be not attached to a very reliable and consistent energy source. It’s not like your on automatic fill as in oil deliveries that you can assign blame to the oil or propane distributor.

[GCinSC2]

Still no water coming out per your last post.

Assuming you’re using the pump for this test right? When you turn the pump on and test do you hear any noise from the pump ? Did the pump work prior to this event?

I just came from helping a friend get his new to him used SOB trailer get his non working pump going. Successfully I might add AFTER cleaning the screen of its coating of crud. The seller discounted the selling price $1000 for a (unknown yo them) clogged screen. Took me a few minutes to find problem and BAM he had tank water via pump. He still learning and his would be BBQ for sure.

Ketchup, mustard, BBQ sauce, hot sauce, A1 or Heinz57? And if BBQ here in SC you gotta be real specific about the type. That’ll help the taste.

Gary

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Still no water coming out per your last post.

Assuming you’re using the pump for this test right? When you turn the pump on and test do you hear any noise from the pump ? Did the pump work prior to this event?

I just came from helping a friend get his new to him used SOB trailer get his non working pump going. Successfully I might add AFTER cleaning the screen of its coating of crud. The seller discounted the selling price $1000 for a (unknown yo them) clogged screen. Took me a few minutes to find problem and BAM he had tank water via pump. He still learning and his would be BBQ for sure.

Ketchup, mustard, BBQ sauce, hot sauce, A1 or Heinz57? And if BBQ here in SC you gotta be real specific about the type. That’ll help the taste.

Gary

Yes the pump is on, was finally able to turn the shower faucet and got a tiny drizzle (most likely just what's in the hose?) but still nothing from the faucets. I didn't try the toilet, the bowl is dry but I don't know whats going on inside.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by SSquared

Another idea would be to make some new Airstream owner friends. Are you a member of the Airstream Club (WBCCI)? Even if not, contact the club president or other officer in your area and ask if there is anyone in your area who can give you some guidance. There are some Airstream club members on Whidbey.

About the propane tanks. The tanks have a manufacture date stamped on them, usually one the upper collar area. After 12 years, it is illegal to refill them unless they are "re-certified". Small propane dealers usually are not capable of doing that, but the big ones usually can. RV dealers usually cannot do it. Recertification is cheaper than buying new tanks (assuming your tanks were in decent condition. Did they have any dents or heavy rust?)

I wonder if this dealer checked the dates on your tank, found out they were too old, and sold you new ones so you could go another 12 years, even if they could have been re-certified.

I need to correct this post. The requirement for the first recertification of steel propane tanks is ten years, not twelve. That's the number stamped into the tanks on my 2013 trailer.

The I got the number 12 from what I thought was a reliable source on the internet. I apologize for the confusion.

[jeffb831]

It looks like the change was in 2017 from 12 to 10 years

https://www.lpgasmagazine.com/dot-cy...ane-marketers/

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/pre...pane-cylinders

Since your trailer is a 2013 (prior to the ruling change), they may have just been manufactured in 2011 and sat in inventory at the factory until your trailer was built.

[Free Pony]

Oh no I’m so so sorry! That is infuriating! I’m in Olympia so I will be taking your post as a warning not to go to that dealer!

I was also caught off guard with the weather, having spent the summer RVing in Los Angeles and returning just in time for below freezing temps. I drained my fresh water tank (didn’t drain my hot water tank though!) and cranked the furnace but lo - smelled propane quite distinctly whenever I was near the rig! I took it to Ernie’s RV and they discovered a bad solenoid which they said they weren’t “certified” to replace. They sent me to Coumb’s RV and they said there is no special certification to replace a solenoid on the propane line but they didn’t have one Tick tick tick… They had me order a solenoid from eBay. I paid a lot to overnight it (still hoping to avoid a disaster) and still had to wait through the holiday weekend for an appointment! Tick tick tick…On Monday, another technician said they couldn’t perform the repair until I burned off all the propane in my tank! Nice to know now… Tick tick tick… I parked it and cranked the furnace but only cold air! I hope that means the full tank is empty after a small leak for a several days and not another problem. I intermittently ran my electric tank heater but am not driving due to snow and ice on the roads and don’t want to drain my batteries because I’m not plugged into shore power. (I can’t find anywhere to dump my waste tank around here so that is also an issue). Still, after all of this, I fear the damage I’ll be looking at when things thaw out. I will take it in tomorrow for the solenoid replacement and keep fingers crossed - for both of us!!!

[bartzstream2]

Originally Posted by WhidbeyGurl

I took my trailer in for service winterized and they returned it to me with full water tanks without my asking them to do that. They also changed out the propane tanks and replaced them with empty ones unbeknownst to me. So I turned the furnace on before going out of town for a few days to prevent it from freezing up and I thought it was running but it was actually just blowing cold air


I got back home from spending christmas with my family and the whole thing is frozen up. Such a bummer. I'm still learning my way around my trailer!








I filled the propane tanks about an hour ago and cranked the heat up to 80. I have the kitchen and bathroom faucets open. How long do you think it'll take to thaw out (it's about 20 degrees outside but will probably drop to around 15 overnight)? Will one 7 gallon propane tank make it through the night or should I switch the supply to the second tank? Is there anything else I should do? What do you think the odds are that I'll have burst pipes or other damage?



Thanks in advance for any advice, I'm really worried this is going to be an expensive headache!

It is too bad you did not notice this problem sooner (Mr. Obvious here). I am wondering what service you had it in for when they filled the tanks and such. At least the supply plumbing is more easily worked on than having to replace the waste/freshwater tanks. BUT, I would talk to a lawyer with your supporting documents very quickly and get him to represent you to the dealer if he advises legal action. Obviously, you should have told the dealer that the trailer was winterized, and if you did, they are likely totally responsible for the damage (if any) caused by the full fresh tank and whatever was in the lines/water heater/faucet fixtures/water pump. Pex tubing is fairly forgiving of freezing but it needs to be thawed and tested. The dealer service shop should be able to handle that and I would demand it, which is where a lawyer could help. You might also look into your insurance policy (comprehensive coverage section) which MAY cover repairs, even though this may have been partly your fault, sorry to say. Repairing it could easily run into thousands of $$$. Do not wait any longer to deal with it because if it needs extensive repairs you could wait months for a solution. Good Luck.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Free Pony

…On Monday, another technician said they couldn’t perform the repair until I burned off all the propane in my tank! Nice to know now… I will take it in tomorrow for the solenoid replacement and keep fingers crossed - for both of us!!!

Free Pony,

The “techs” comment above just didn’t pass my smell test.

Burn off all the propane.

Easy. Close off both propane tank valves then try to light stove. It might run for a few seconds and then go out.

All propane has now been emptied out of system. Want to go further disconnect hoses from tanks after above.

Gary

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

WhidbeyGurl,
i’ve never been a fan of the exchanges, so I mark our name on them with a permanent marker, along with the full weight (so I can drop one on a bath scale to see how much the contents have been depleted).

FYI tank exchanges in many areas do not always provide full tanks. In this part of the country most exchanges fill their tanks 25% under the rated tank capacities. The thinking from customers is that a tank exchange is priced the same as having to takes getting a fill from a local supplier. So folks think they are saving the time of filling and avoid the costs of recertification. And to boot they are usually getting a nice looking tank. But the vendor knows that short filling the tank pays the overhead of filling, maintaining and transportation and also gives them a profit margin. In my course of retirement work I sometimes have handled tank returns and exchanges and most customers have no idea that the tanks are filled 25% below normal capacity. We don't fill the tanks either. We just are a point that collects and distributes tanks that filled elsewhere. We only do 20 lb tanks that are filled to 15 lb.

The best thing to do is take the time to fill your tank when empty, or take it to a filler who only charges per gallon. The latter is what I usually do, and many folks fill tanks which are not yet empty, but you get charged a fixed rate based on the size of the tank and not the amount of fuel needed to fill it. Local outlets like charging a flat rate. Gives then a little extra profit.

Jack

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Free Pony,

The “techs” comment above just didn’t pass my smell test.

Burn off all the propane.

Easy. Close off both propane tank valves then try to light stove. It might run for a few seconds and then go out.

All propane has now been emptied out of system. Want to go further disconnect hoses from tanks after above.

Gary

Your reply is ONLY for trailers NOT Interstate motor homes.

Interstate motor homes have one built in tank with a solenoid to open/close the tank, not a hand operated valve.

[GCinSC2]

Ok wazbro looks like I missed that it’s a class B.

Is there any info in post 86 that says it’s a class B?

I did go back and look didn’t see class B in post 86 but yes Free Pony does list Interstate in profile.

So Wazbro how does an interstate class b shut off their propane system?

And Free Pony which solenoid valve is being replaced?

[Milo1952]

Get a skirt for your trailer immediately.
That will help to keep the freezing temps
reasonable under the trailer.
Get a few tanks of propane since you are trying to
defrost the trailer. you're going to need it.
Open all cabinet doors and the door by the water pump as well.
Good Luck !
Bad start to the New Year. Things will get better.
If your tanks are full you, and you need to defrost 50 gal of water,
you may have to rent a heated indoor garage at a storage facility to
get that amount of water defrosted in winter.

[Milo1952]

Originally Posted by WhidbeyGurl

I took my trailer in for service winterized and they returned it to me with full water tanks without my asking them to do that. They also changed out the propane tanks and replaced them with empty ones unbeknownst to me. So I turned the furnace on before going out of town for a few days to prevent it from freezing up and I thought it was running but it was actually just blowing cold air


I got back home from spending christmas with my family and the whole thing is frozen up. Such a bummer. I'm still learning my way around my trailer!



I filled the propane tanks about an hour ago and cranked the heat up to 80. I have the kitchen and bathroom faucets open. How long do you think it'll take to thaw out (it's about 20 degrees outside but will probably drop to around 15 overnight)? Will one 7 gallon propane tank make it through the night or should I switch the supply to the second tank? Is there anything else I should do? What do you think the odds are that I'll have burst pipes or other damage?



Thanks in advance for any advice, I'm really worried this is going to be an expensive headache!

If you have a bill showing that you paid for winterization. emptying the water tanks is part of that process. If you can prove that they switched your tanks without you permission that is theft.
I would take the trailer to a Airstream service center to have the damage assessed. Ask for a repair estimate.
Then go back to the place you paid for winterization and talk to the owner.
Don't settle for talking to anyone but the owner. A sales person or tech guy won't be able to help you, as they don't have the authority to OK anything and will most likely to try to cover it up . Most importantly, DO NOT allow them to do the repairs as they won't have the expertise do repair your trailer. Nor would I trust them.
If they won't play ball contact a lawyer. Sometimes, threatening a lawsuit using a lawyer, and suing for damages and loss of use may work.
If all else fails follow thru on the lawsuit.

[Hawk-ination]

To the OP. You might want to take pictures and/or video of your situation whether or not you think you don’t want to go further with your damage and any compensation. Once the story is gone, it is gone. If you document what is happening during the situation, you have something in your back pocket in case it gets really bad.

It’s also easier to review a situation from the outside in. You are knee deep in your mess right now, and maybe not thinking or knowing what your future holds as far as damage. If you were asking my advice, I’d take some video with explanations of the damage/frozen items (sort version). If you can, sit down and write down your dates of repairs, state of trailer before dropping it off, and what you got back after along with what you were not told.

This might end up being so expensive and such a headache, you might thank yourself later for being prepared. If not, you spent maybe half an hour of time that was useless. I think I’d rather protect my interests and waste a half hour or maybe hour of my time in this kind of situation. There are liabilities involved and sometimes it takes someone outside the situation to make a clear and good determination of who and what is at fault. We all go through learning curves as new owners. Good luck to you.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

Your reply is ONLY for trailers NOT Interstate motor homes.

Interstate motor homes have one built in tank with a solenoid to open/close the tank, not a hand operated valve.

Wazbro,

This sent me researching and, yes I've sorta learned some things.

1. On iPhone the users info and pic doesn't show up so I didn't see the Class B avatar. I was on my iPhone at the time.
2. The AS website isn't letting me search parts manuals but I did find Interblog's account of tank R&R on their rig link below.
3. The ASME RV tank pics I saw do have a manual valve on the vapor discharge connection but IB's blog pic 6 show a solenoid valve on the vapor connection and the regulator connected to the solenoid valve.
4. I did read the AI owners manual for a 2007 and it only shows an electric switch as you point out.

Now for what I'm still puzzled about does this remote switch solenoid valve have a manual shut off also?

AI owners please take a look at IB's blog link and what is that round wheel? at the bottom of the solenoid valve in pic 6?

And yes, I've seen the confusion from posts about what a trailer owner states this is how it works only to find out it's not a trailer that is being discussed.

Apologies for any confusion.

Regards,

Gary


http://interstateblog.blogspot.com/2...airstream.html

[Ky76Argosy]

Give immediate notice to service facility. Need to get inside to thaw. To cut wind get plastic tarps and wrap around bottom of trailer. Just can’t wrap my head around why gas tanks are empty, and why not know heater not start-up. So arguably service people will say that part may be on you. You knew water in tanks, and easily then would find water in lines, and 30 minutes could blow out and re-winterize or get gas. Real lesson learned is to take care of issues before leave town. But that does help you at this point with shower hose frozen, other more guarded lines probably are too. Perfect storm, with gate frozen? Did you open low point valves, water heater drain plug, and try to blow out lines? I think perhaps in this situation, turn on heat, yes, but to thaw water tank and hopefully lines, my thought is to add antifreeze to tank. Maybe add a heater, salamander type, blowing under trailer. Once thaw lines and tanks, blow out, rewinterize, wait until warm to check line status.

[jeffb831]

Originally Posted by Ky76Argosy

Just can’t wrap my head around why gas tanks are empty

The OP mentioned they were empty because they were replaced.

Since she has a 2012 trailer and the new DOT tank regulations say that tanks are only good for 10 years from manufacture date, they either needed to be replaced or recertified.

[Shads Shack]

I got on really late, as it sounds like the tanks are thawing after several days. I didn't read all suggestions, but most centered on the furnace heat for thawing.



For future reference, did anyone suggest turning on the tank heaters?

[Martee]

Are you sure the water tank is 100% full? Airstream water tanks will freeze the water contained inside from the exposed metal contact points, meaning bottom and sides start freezing first. As the water freezes to ice, it starts expanding to the top of the tank. And that's a good thing. Typically, water tanks 2/3 full will freeze and still not rupture the tank or cause any damage because there was room for expansion.

Its full water tanks that become problematic and show serious freezing risks over an exceptionally long cold period. I would encourage an electric heater unit be placed under the fresh water tank to combat freezing until you can better evaluate. You can also use a propane heater/blower unit, using commercial dryer ducts providing heat to that tank. With luck, you may come out of this with minimal damage.

Alert the dealer right now, and when you can, and the roads are acceptable, just tow the airstream right back to the dealer for needed immediate emergency evaluation and possible warranty work.

I am very perplexed by the propane tank change-out that is reported, most dealers and just about anybody I have met in the RV industry, just usually and typically refill propane tanks....and not replace tanks. How did you know these were different propane tanks? From serial numbers??

[rfequity1]

I read through this and it all seems pretty strange. Dealers of all kinds are known for doing what you ask them to do and nothing else. If the trailer came into them months ago and they were to do a multi point inspection, why would they think it's winterized? How do they know you are done camping for the season? How do they know you are not getting ready to head south? How would they do an inspection without dewinterizing? Why would they winterize again unless you asked them? Honestly, I dont see any fault of the dealer here. It is up to us to be intelligent consumers and ask questions. Why was this just looked into after months since the service?