My tanks are frozen

[GetawA-S]

Double wow. (Our posts “crossed”.) Time to look for a local shop who treats you like a person.
Maybe the ten year old tanks did need replacement, but to leave them empty? Time to rely on your own skills and the local Farm and Fleet, or equivalent.
This dealer is worse than useless.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

Wow. Tough place to be, especially with all the other stresses of the winter weather.
For now: shore power can provide heat more reliably than propane, so set up a unit heater. If you have a heat pump, it may not be effective at low temperatures. A heat strip will be, but won’t do much to warm the tank enclosures, and uses about the same juice as a unit heater. Trying to run both might trip your house or storage breaker.
Faced with a claim, the dealer may not see this as clear-cut as your fellow Airforumers. Were your propane tanks marked, so you can prove they were switched and not run out because some appliance was left on? Had you posted stickers indicating the system was winterized? Did the service (multipoint) require the addition of water, and did you ask if it had been re-winterized? Many techs are stuck in the pre-climate change past, as in “The Sound never sees serious freezing weather.”
I’m not saying the dealer has no responsibility, but there are things we all can do to lessen the likelihood of a similar situation, and improve the odds of recourse if necessary.
A final note: PEX plumbing is more forgiving than previous materials, but valves are not so much. Test everything once you get everything thawed.
Good luck!

All good points. My ex boyfriend winterized it for me the last time so no stickers there. I don't know about stickers on the propane tanks, they're brand new and I never looked at them until today. How does that work exactly? They replaced a part on the water heater so I'm pretty sure the multi point involved water, and it just never occurred to me until I realized I had full tanks, then my friend said that was probably the reason. They didn't mention winterization and neither did I, I'd had it bone dry for quite some time so it just wasn't on my radar. So I will probably end up paying for whatever damage is done, I just hope it's not too crazy.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

That's good the pipes hold about 1 gallon of water and the water heater holds 6 gallons so that is the limit of flooding.

There was an Airsteam in a campground here in NJ the had the city water hose left connected in a seasonal site after the owner last used it 5 years before he died then his son went to start using it and said it had no damage. So either it is possible to not winterize and have no damage or the hose was reconnected for some idiotic reason after it was winterized.

This makes me feel so much better, thank you!

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

Double wow. (Our posts “crossed”.) Time to look for a local shop who treats you like a person.
Maybe the ten year old tanks did need replacement, but to leave them empty? Time to rely on your own skills and the local Farm and Fleet, or equivalent.
This dealer is worse than useless.

I have a GREAT mechanic here on Whidbey that has his own shop who also works on sprinter vans. He's super detail oriented and fair. He said he would help with the airstream in the future. I asked him after that bad dealer experience. I also really need to learn how to do basic things like winterization myself. The girl in me has a mental block when it comes to stuff like that but I felt the same way about towing it at first so I know it's just a matter of changing my thinking!

[GetawA-S]

WhidbeyGurl,
times have changed, people don’t always take professional pride, and so we need to be a little more on top of things.
Regarding tank stickers, here in Florida, there are times you lend out your propane tanks (during storm events). I’ve never been a fan of the exchanges, so I mark our name on them with a permanent marker, along with the full weight (so I can drop one on a bath scale to see how much the contents have been depleted). That way, I get MY tank back from the half dozen or so the brother in law is relying on while we are hunkering up north. Tanks also have a manufacture date stamped into them. Check yours to see if they are truly new. (Squeezing doesn’t work, regardless of what Mr. Whipple says.)
We all appreciate your effort to heighten our awareness - it could have happened to any of us!

[GCinSC2]

Yes learning basics is a really good thing.

And it appears this is a developing story with more details following as they say on the news. But getting it unfroze and minimize any damage is first job.

[ChrisnPatty]

The water damage will occur when everything melts. Personally (and I am in your area) I'd be inclined to just leave everything frozen solid for now. Open all your lower drain valves, and just let everything thaw and drain as the weather changes, clean up as it evolves, then assess the damage. Intentionally thawing now would mean you have to evacuate and dry everything that might contain water.

[Fungus]

Once the thaw happens it's best to test the system with air pressure, not water. Air is easier to clean up.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

WhidbeyGurl,
times have changed, people don’t always take professional pride, and so we need to be a little more on top of things.
Regarding tank stickers, here in Florida, there are times you lend out your propane tanks (during storm events). I’ve never been a fan of the exchanges, so I mark our name on them with a permanent marker, along with the full weight (so I can drop one on a bath scale to see how much the contents have been depleted). That way, I get MY tank back from the half dozen or so the brother in law is relying on while we are hunkering up north. Tanks also have a manufacture date stamped into them. Check yours to see if they are truly new. (Squeezing doesn’t work, regardless of what Mr. Whipple says.)
We all appreciate your effort to heighten our awareness - it could have happened to any of us!

We sure do, it's hard to find people that really care about doing a good job. When it comes to big businesses it's all about the leadership. It's up to them to make sure everyone knows their job and does it correctly! The Milton dealership just seemed mismanaged on every level. The only person manning the cash register in the parts store didn't even know how to work the register. Maybe train your employees before leaving them alone to handle transactions? Bad for them and bad for the customers. The office staff can't find a receipt and don't follow up, and the service department left much to be desired as well. Not what you'd expect from an airstream dealership that charges such high prices.



I just went out and tried to look at the tanks but its too dark (and cold haha). They looked brand new when I had them filled today, not a scratch on them.



I appreciate your saying it could happen to anyone but I'm feeling like a ding dong right about now. All of this could've been easily avoided if I'd been more dilligent instead of relying on others! Going to be digging into YouTube videos after this debacle to learn how to winterize so maybe that's the silver lining to all of this

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by ChrisnPatty

The water damage will occur when everything melts. Personally (and I am in your area) I'd be inclined to just leave everything frozen solid for now. Open all your lower drain valves, and just let everything thaw and drain as the weather changes, clean up as it evolves, then assess the damage. Intentionally thawing now would mean you have to evacuate and dry everything that might contain water.

Hi fellow Washingtonian! I'm not staying in it, it's parked on my property. I do have a powerful dehumidifier set up in there that I keep running most of the time so as long as I can towel up the spills hopefully the dehumidifier will prevent it from staying wet. I've been scouring the web and keep seeing that the longer it stays frozen the more likely it is that damage will occur? When you say drain valves do you mean the valve under the kitchen sink? Where are the others?

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Once the thaw happens it's best to test the system with air pressure, not water. Air is easier to clean up.

Thanks. I will try to find a YouTube tutorial on this. It's all foreign to me!

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by WhidbeyGurl

When you say drain valves do you mean the valve under the kitchen sink? Where are the others?

Fresh water drain valve and at least two low-point drain valves (one hot and one cold) will be on the undercarriage of the trailer. They are between the street-side wheels on my 25FB.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Fresh water drain valve and at least two low-point drain valves (one hot and one cold) will be on the undercarriage of the trailer. They are between the street-side wheels on my 25FB.

Ok thanks, I'll go out there with a flashlight and the user manual and see if I can find them.

[ChrisnPatty]

Your trailer likely has multiple low point drains which are used to winterize and sanitize your plumbing system. That would include the water tanks, gray and black water tanks, and water heater (and open the pressure relief valve). The goal is to provide pressure relief points if they did an improper job of winterizing. If you have your manual, check the winterization process and it should tell you where the low point drains are. I'd disconnect the lines to and from the water pump as well as the shower head(s). Anything to ensure that expanding water has a place to go instead of bursting a pipe or pump. That is all on the assumption they did a poor job of winterizing.

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by WhidbeyGurl

Thanks. I will try to find a YouTube tutorial on this. It's all foreign to me!

It is the same process as winterizing by blowing out the lines but just a little more.

If you have an air compressor like mine, you're looking for a drop in air pressure after pressurizing the line at 45 PSI but while the compressor is off and all outlets closed. Also listen for hissing sounds under cabinets, under the fridge, near the water pump, at the water heater, and at the two showers (indoor, outdoor). You'll need to remove some of the backs of the cabinets. Some may pop off with a firm yank while some will require removing a couple of screws.

Not to make you worry even more but just to be prepared...PEX can expand then return to its normal size but PEX has its limits. The result is that at some point in the future you might encounter leaks that are a direct result of a previous expansion episode (more likely, a series of episodes).

The toilet is concerning. I have no experience at this but it seems that if it is a ceramic toilet cracks are possible. Ceramics don't have much give.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Fresh water drain valve and at least two low-point drain valves (one hot and one cold) will be on the undercarriage of the trailer. They are between the street-side wheels on my 25FB.

The user manual doesn't have any pictures. I found two boxes that say holding tanks with a pull handle attached to a stick. I pulled both of those sticks out and heard the sound of swishing water but nothing came out. Nothing is coming out of the faucets yet. What do the low point drains look like? I looked on YouTube but couldn't find a video for this.

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by WhidbeyGurl

The user manual doesn't have any pictures. I found two boxes that say holding tanks with a pull handle attached to a stick. I pulled both of those sticks out and heard the sound of swishing water but nothing came out. Nothing is coming out of the faucets yet. What do the low point drains look like? I looked on YouTube but couldn't find a video for this.

The handle you pulled is for dumping the gray water tank and the black water tank. Push them back in. It is a stinky mess. But the fact that you heard swishing water and saw no drips might be a good sign showing that the tanks are not frozen.

The valves I mentioned are three very small valves with handles no more than two inches long. My fresh water drain valve is white plastic. The low point valves are metal. You may need to get under the trailer a little to find them. When you find them, don't put too much pressure on them; they might be frozen.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Fungus

It is the same process as winterizing by blowing out the lines but just a little more.

If you have an air compressor like mine, you're looking for a drop in air pressure after pressurizing the line at 45 PSI but while the compressor is off and all outlets closed. Also listen for hissing sounds under cabinets, under the fridge, near the water pump, at the water heater, and at the two showers (indoor, outdoor). You'll need to remove some of the backs of the cabinets. Some may pop off with a firm yank while some will require removing a couple of screws.

Not to make you worry even more but just to be prepared...PEX can expand then return to its normal size but PEX has its limits. The result is that at some point in the future you might encounter leaks that are a direct result of a previous expansion episode (more likely, a series of episodes).

The toilet is concerning. I have no experience at this but it seems that if it is a ceramic toilet cracks are possible. Ceramics don't have much give.

Never thought I'd say this but I'm missing my ex right about now haha, he knew how to do all of this stuff.



Kidding aside this is helpful! The water heater is probably toast too? The outside is covered in icicles and that water heater is located on the exterior panel. I'm definitely going to have to tow it in to have another inspection done after this but I'll give it my best in the meantime.

[WhidbeyGurl]

Originally Posted by Fungus

The handle you pulled is for dumping the gray water tank and the black water tank. Push them back in. It is a stinky mess. But the fact that you heard swishing water and saw no drips might be a good sign showing that the tanks are not frozen.

The valves I mentioned are three very small valves with handles no more than two inches long. My fresh water drain valve is white plastic. The low point valves are metal. You may need to get under the trailer a little to find them. When you find them, don't put too much pressure on them; they might be frozen.

Oops! Good thing the blackwater tank is empty. Thanks, I'm heading back out.

[Fungus]

From your manual:

The hot and cold water line low point drain valves on the 27 ft. and 28 ft. are located on exterior of the coach for easier access. If you look under the trailer, you will see a “box” that is a few inches lower than the trailer frame. This “box” or pan supports a water tank. The line drain valves will be the two brass pet cocks on the bottom of the pan.

On the 23 ft, 25 ft, 27 ft, 28 ft, and 30 ft. models, a large valve on the fresh water tank pan under the trailer drains the water fresh tank. On these models an additional 1 ¼” drain plug is located on the bottom of the tank inside the galvanized “box”. The plug is accessible by removing an inspection plate close to the petcock that can be seen on the bottom of the tank support pan. There may be a little Styrofoam insulation covering the plug that should be carefully removed and replaced.